c'est fini

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    c'est fini

    The beginning of the end was the freak injury to Big Papi. His bat would have won at least 2 of these last 3 losses.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxdawg08. Show soxdawg08's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    The beginning of the end happened September 2011.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    No, just when they brought in Valentine.

    They really did not need to let Francona go. The Braves collpased equally badly last Spetember, kept Fredi Gonzalez as manager, kept their locker room issues private, didn't see the press repeatedly harass their pitching staff and try to drive Hudson and Hanson out of town for no real reason, and somehow, they managed to still play solid baseball this year and stay very much in the post-season hunt.

    The Sox overreacted.  End of story...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]No, just when they brought in Valentine. They really did not need to let Francona go. The Braves collpased equally badly last Spetember, kept Fredi Gonzalez as manager, kept their locker room issues private, didn't see the press repeatedly harass their pitching staff and try to drive Hudson and Hanson out of town for no real reason, and somehow, they managed to still play solid baseball this year and stay very much in the post-season hunt. The Sox overreacted.  End of story...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    +1.  Well said.

    I don't know how much Bobby V himself is really at fault, seems like no one was going to walk in and right this ship.  Don't know if I'm allowed to say it but all the injuries haven't helped.


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: c'est fini : +1.  Well said. I don't know how much Bobby V himself is really at fault, seems like no one was going to walk in and right this ship.  Don't know if I'm allowed to say it but all the injuries haven't helped.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    The injuries were the problem. Period. I did think BV would bring at leastr some aggressiveness, but he hasn;t. Tonight, game on ethe line, Crawford on 3rd, one out. Ellsbury vs a lefty. Squeeze? Nope.

    BV explaining lack of steals by Ellsbuiry and Crawford by saying something about getting their timing down? Does he expect anyone to beliwve that? Both have led the league in steals (CC multiple times), and they need to get their timing down? Come on, man!!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]The beginning of the end happened September 2011.
    Posted by soxdawg08[/QUOTE]

    What happened in 2011 happened in 2011. This is a different team. They had the nucleus when spring training got under way. You can't blame this year's performance on last year---not any more!
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]No, just when they brought in Valentine. They really did not need to let Francona go. The Braves collpased equally badly last Spetember, kept Fredi Gonzalez as manager, kept their locker room issues private, didn't see the press repeatedly harass their pitching staff and try to drive Hudson and Hanson out of town for no real reason, and somehow, they managed to still play solid baseball this year and stay very much in the post-season hunt. The Sox overreacted.  End of story...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    I don't agree; they had to let Francona go. It would have been a daily circus otherwise. Whether BV was the right man, or not, is debateable because of the huge number of injuries, and the poor performances lof Lester and Beckett. BV has not brought the aggressiveness levvel up, as I thoiught he would, but I don't know if anyone would have, in the long run, done much better. If so, who?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]No, just when they brought in Valentine. They really did not need to let Francona go. The Braves collpased equally badly last Spetember, kept Fredi Gonzalez as manager, kept their locker room issues private, didn't see the press repeatedly harass their pitching staff and try to drive Hudson and Hanson out of town for no real reason, and somehow, they managed to still play solid baseball this year and stay very much in the post-season hunt. The Sox overreacted.  End of story...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    BEST POST OF THE YEAR...I said the same about the Bruins analogy, the collapse v. Flyers, 3-0 lead in games and 3-0 lead in the 1st period of game 7--massive choke--fans wanted Julien fired on the spot...Instead, B's win first Cup in 39 years THE FOLLOWING SEASON. So many fans just don't get it. It's not the in-game managing, it's all the other peripheral stuff that a Sox manager must be equipped to do for the team to be even remotely successful...Tito supplied it, BV does not.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    Bobby V should have never told Beckett and Lester to pitch 2-3 mph slower this year.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]Bobby V should have never told Beckett and Lester to pitch 2-3 mph slower this year.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    Right, and definitely  to place those slower pitches over the middle of the plate.
    And to tell Lester to lengthen his stride and not to get on top of his pitches, and to flatten out his cutter. 
    Doesn't BV understand after all his years in the game that a combination of things just noted rarely brings good results. Why, these failures on BV's part constitute a case on their own for firing him. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CougarLover16. Show CougarLover16's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]No, just when they brought in Valentine. They really did not need to let Francona go. The Braves collpased equally badly last Spetember, kept Fredi Gonzalez as manager, kept their locker room issues private, didn't see the press repeatedly harass their pitching staff and try to drive Hudson and Hanson out of town for no real reason, and somehow, they managed to still play solid baseball this year and stay very much in the post-season hunt. The Sox overreacted.  End of story...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    I agree the Sox might 've overreacted but to blame this on BV is wrong. He has no control over the roster, inj, heck he wasn't allowed to assemble his own staff. This is 100% on the players.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: c'est fini : Right, and definitely  to place those slower pitches over the middle of the plate. And to tell Lester to lengthen his stride and not to get on top of his pitches, and to flatten out his cutter.  Doesn't BV understand after all his years in the game that a combination of things just noted rarely brings good results. Why, these failures on BV's part constitute a case on their own for firing him. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Clearly something is amiss within the organization? Or perhaps we simply have too many players that lack the fortitude to step up and be accountable.

    End of the day we're 9 games under .500 in games started by Beckett and Lester...We're 2 over .500 when any one else starts. I'm pretty sure that has to be Bobby Valentine's fault!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brickbat. Show Brickbat's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In response to "Re: c'est fini": [QUOTE]Bobby V should have never told Beckett and Lester to pitch 2-3 mph slower this year. Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] Exactly right. Pitching is the major problem here. I like Tito -- the guy won two WS and he wasn't responsible for the bad signings -- but it was time to go. I was not for hiring Bobby V because he's been a one-man circus wherever he goes. To blame this year on him is wrong. Let us count the ways: 1. The starting rotation is horrible, Clay is the exception. The likes of Doubront and Morales have potential but it didn't take Nostradamus to predict they'd tire and fade. That anyone was waiting for Dice-K to return is proof of how bad this group has been. 2. The injuries cannot be ignored. 3. Keeping Lackey and Beckett around was a mistake (yeah, I know Lackey was injured and that Beckett could be good again). 4. Do not underestimate the negative impact of St. Pedroia criticizing the manager and nobody in the front office telling him to sit down and shut up. Tito lost control to the players. St. Dustin and the front office took it from Bobby. The message was clear: the lunatics who wrecked the asylum in 2011 were still running it. Whether Valentine is the right manager for the Sox is a valid subject for debate. But nobody could have won in this situation.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    This is a sad collection of wanna be superstars:Crappy Carl doesn't steal anymore and is borderline pathetic at the plate,Smellsbury nicks his finger and it's off to the DL and he thinks he's a HR hitter no more using his speed to an advantage for him either,the entire starting pitching staff is a joke with no ace! If it wasn't for Pedro Ciriaco I wouldn't watch this team very often.As for those who think Tito would have been a better choice to run this team please reflect back to last seasons collapse of this team,led by none other than Tippy himself. Cherrington made no moves at the deadline to help BV,this team needs an ace!!!!!! Beckett isn't one and as it turns out neither is Lester! They should bring up Barnes and hand him the ball and let him get his feet wet in the bigs,because this season is ovva!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeftyGrove. Show LeftyGrove's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In response to "Re: c'est fini": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: c'est fini : +1.  Well said. I don't know how much Bobby V himself is really at fault, seems like no one was going to walk in and right this ship.  Don't know if I'm allowed to say it but all the injuries haven't helped. Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE] Agree. This mess is not on Bobby V. , it starts with the owners, the guys on the field.... Injuries don't help, but the body language... Where is the fire? The owners failed to fix the issues in the offseason. Talk about the luxury tax concerns, saying recently they could make a bold move,, meaningless words... That amount to doing nothing. Empty letters to the fan base, sort of like empty political promises.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Medic87. Show Medic87's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    Here is my opinion, even though nobody asked for it.

    If you hate your boss, you tend to not work as hard as you would for someone you like and respect.  Its only natural human behavior wether its a conscious or unconscious decision.  If your miserable at your job, your productivity will be less.

    This is how i see the situation, both players and Manager are to blame.  Bobby has a way of alienating his players by getting under thier skin and keeping them miserable, therefor the players are not playing hard for him, i am sure they are going out there and giving 100% but your not going to get that extra 10% out of them, they are not going to go to war for Bobby V.   A leader has to be respected, and they just dont respect him or agree with him in any of his decisions. That is why Bobby has to go, its easier than replacing an entire team. 

    BTW Bobby V just isnt a good manager, there is a reason why he was out of MLB for 10 yrs, and if it wasnt for ownership, he would STILL be outside looking in.  He is being out managed on a regular basis.  Injuries ARE NOT AN EXCUSE.  ALL teams have them.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: c'est fini : What happened in 2011 happened in 2011. This is a different team. They had the nucleus when spring training got under way. You can't blame this year's performance on last year---not any more!
    Posted by bosoxmal[/QUOTE]

    Exactly.

    Diferent manager.  Different GM.  Different coaching staff. Even a few different players.

    2011 is over.  The problem was, it was over last year and the Sox appeared to act as if they needed to do something about it this year...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: c'est fini : I agree the Sox might 've overreacted but to blame this on BV is wrong. He has no control over the roster, inj, heck he wasn't allowed to assemble his own staff. This is 100% on the players.
    Posted by CougarLover16[/QUOTE]

    I didn't blame Valentine.  I blamed the logic behind hiring him.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: c'est fini : Right, and definitely  to place those slower pitches over the middle of the plate. And to tell Lester to lengthen his stride and not to get on top of his pitches, and to flatten out his cutter.  Doesn't BV understand after all his years in the game that a combination of things just noted rarely brings good results. Why, these failures on BV's part constitute a case on their own for firing him. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    if managerial indifference were a crime, Francona would be on death row...thanks for the laugh
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    LOL, geo.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]No, just when they brought in Valentine. They really did not need to let Francona go. The Braves collpased equally badly last Spetember, kept Fredi Gonzalez as manager, kept their locker room issues private, didn't see the press repeatedly harass their pitching staff and try to drive Hudson and Hanson out of town for no real reason, and somehow, they managed to still play solid baseball this year and stay very much in the post-season hunt. The Sox overreacted.  End of story...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]
    Are you comparing the Atlanta press to the Boston press? They fired Francona because he was a terrible manager. BV has forgotten more than Francona ever knew about managing a baseball team. Beckett and Lester are a combined 10-18. Would it be reasonable to expect the #1 & #2 starters to be 18 -10 ?? Or even 20-8 this time of year? A 20-8 record for the 1&2 starters would give the Sox a 63-42 record and in a virtual tie, or a game ahead of the Yankees. How does the performances of Beckett and Lester translate into poor managing???
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: c'est fini : Are you comparing the Atlanta press to the Boston press? They fired Francona because he was a terrible manager. BV has forgotten more than Francona ever knew about managing a baseball team. Beckett and Lester are a combined 10-18. Would it be reasonable to expect the #1 & #2 starters to be 18 -10 ?? Or even 20-8 this time of year? A 20-8 record for the 1&2 starters would give the Sox a 63-42 record and in a virtual tie, or a game ahead of the Yankees. How does the performances of Beckett and Lester translate into poor managing???
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    Beckett and Lester's poor performances in September/11 were also one of the major causes of the collapse that led to Francona being fired.  In fact the whole pitching staff was awful in September.  That wasn't Francona's fault either.  Works both ways. 


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: c'est fini

    In Response to Re: c'est fini:
    [QUOTE]Here is my opinion, even though nobody asked for it. If you hate your boss, you tend to not work as hard as you would for someone you like and respect.  Its only natural human behavior wether its a conscious or unconscious decision.  If your miserable at your job, your productivity will be less. This is how i see the situation, both players and Manager are to blame.  Bobby has a way of alienating his players by getting under thier skin and keeping them miserable, therefor the players are not playing hard for him, i am sure they are going out there and giving 100% but your not going to get that extra 10% out of them, they are not going to go to war for Bobby V.   A leader has to be respected, and they just dont respect him or agree with him in any of his decisions. That is why Bobby has to go, its easier than replacing an entire team.  BTW Bobby V just isnt a good manager, there is a reason why he was out of MLB for 10 yrs, and if it wasnt for ownership, he would STILL be outside looking in.  He is being out managed on a regular basis.  Injuries ARE NOT AN EXCUSE.  ALL teams have them.
    Posted by Medic87[/QUOTE]

    Each and every major league player is a business and each is his own boss. They work for themselves, their income depends on performance. Whether or not they like the manager or if there is no team chemistry or if they don't like anybody in the clubhouse is nonsense. The compensation they get for team results is tip money to these millionaires. They are subcontractors and sell their services to the highest bidder. They are not impressionable high school kids, they are all big businesses in and of themselves.
     

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