CF next season?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    CF next season?

    With Ells having a very solid season and staying healthy and JBJ seemingly having regressed this season at AAA and with his short stint with the big club......are you still confident that if Ells leaves via FA that we will be ok? 

    Don't get me wrong, I do not want to handcuff the team by signing Ells to a huge contract this Winter but a HUGE part of this offense has been the ability of our first 3 players not only able to get on base but also steal bases and put the pressure on the other team.  JBJ has shown that he can get on base in the MINORS but when he is there he simply lacks the speed that we like to see at the top of the lineup. 
    I know that Vic could bat leadoff....but I REALLY like him in the 2 hole followed by Pedey.  I really think the CF position and more importantly the LEADOFF spot in this order may be the most important decision this offseason BY FAR. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NLU75. Show NLU75's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    In response to Kingface12's comment:

    With Ells having a very solid season and staying healthy and JBJ seemingly having regressed this season at AAA and with his short stint with the big club......are you still confident that if Ells leaves via FA that we will be ok? 

    Don't get me wrong, I do not want to handcuff the team by signing Ells to a huge contract this Winter but a HUGE part of this offense has been the ability of our first 3 players not only able to get on base but also steal bases and put the pressure on the other team.  JBJ has shown that he can get on base in the MINORS but when he is there he simply lacks the speed that we like to see at the top of the lineup. 
    I know that Vic could bat leadoff....but I REALLY like him in the 2 hole followed by Pedey.  I really think the CF position and more importantly the LEADOFF spot in this order may be the most important decision this offseason BY FAR. 

    If Boras says 6 yrs 120, Els will not be here next year


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    No disrespect intended, but how about we enjoy this team and its rush to the playoffs and worry about next year's roster after the season?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    Ellsbury is far and away the best choice, but I think he will be unaffordable--that is, $20M or more for five or more years, which is insane.  I think Bradley will be the guy, which will hamper the offense somewhat. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    I don't see a regression for Bradley - he put up better numbers at AAA then he did in half a season at AA a year ago.  I think he'll be the guy - he's the better defender, and I would not be at all surprised if he had a higher OPS than Ells next year.  Certainly by 2015.  

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    In response to trouts' comment:

    No disrespect intended, but how about we enjoy this team and its rush to the playoffs and worry about next year's roster after the season?




    Wrong.  Last night's game was so boring it's not worth discussing.  The 4,846th discussion of Ellsbury continues to thrill. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MustangBri. Show MustangBri's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    In response to Kingface12's comment:

    With Ells having a very solid season and staying healthy and JBJ seemingly having regressed this season at AAA and with his short stint with the big club......are you still confident that if Ells leaves via FA that we will be ok? 

    Don't get me wrong, I do not want to handcuff the team by signing Ells to a huge contract this Winter but a HUGE part of this offense has been the ability of our first 3 players not only able to get on base but also steal bases and put the pressure on the other team.  JBJ has shown that he can get on base in the MINORS but when he is there he simply lacks the speed that we like to see at the top of the lineup. 
    I know that Vic could bat leadoff....but I REALLY like him in the 2 hole followed by Pedey.  I really think the CF position and more importantly the LEADOFF spot in this order may be the most important decision this offseason BY FAR. 



    Shin Soo Choo.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    Vic has played CF---767 games--with-41 assists-------Ells---702 games --with--19 assists

    Vic has 221 steals in 1184 games-------------------Ells ---241 steals in 712 games

    Victorino was brought here partly as insurance in case Ells got hurt and in case Ells walked at the end of the season.

    JBJ can play CF, LF or RF  for the Red Sox today.  He will be the player Ells is in time. Maybe not the first two months but over time. I personally love Ells' play however there is a big difference between $500,000 and $20 M per season. Ells is not 40 times better than JBJ and he's not worth 40 times more per season than JBJ.

    BJ Upton is having a terrible season this year and is making $15 M per.  How would you feel if Ells pulls a hammy in ST next March and looses his legs and you are stuck with a $20 M deal similar to CC. No thanks...

    I think teams will look at Ells before he signs and think about Bourn, Swisher, Upton and in addition to the big price tag they lost their #1 pick. Perhaps there is a desperate team out there  that will shell out more than $20 M---I hope it's not the Sox.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: CF next season?

     

    I doubt Ellsbury will be back with Boston next year.  So in the meantime, let's enjoy his great season as the Red Sox head to the playoffs.  Laughing

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    Are we really going to pay over $15M a year to our 9th best OPS player?

    Sox4ever

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    To be named later.  JBJ will get his shot with Shane as backup insurance.  I would like to the Red Sox acquire a corner outfielder with a big stick.  A Hunter Pence type would be nice.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Are we really going to pay over $15M a year to our 9th best OPS player?

    Sox4ever




    where does he compare to other CF'ers? Im too lazy today to look.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    Some people will just go by stats, not watch the player. Ellsbury is very valuable, and when he walks, people will see why.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    Some people will just go by stats, not watch the player. Ellsbury is very valuable, and when he walks, people will see why.



    He is a very good player, no doubt. But he is not worth the money Borass is going to demand for him. Add to that the games missed due to injury and IMO unless he gives us a home town discount and accepts incentive clauses in his new contract, I will pass on him. The team will go on just fine without him. He is not irreplaceable.

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Are we really going to pay over $15M a year to our 9th best OPS player?

    Sox4ever

     




    where does he compare to other CF'ers? Im too lazy today to look.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Out of the 68 CF'ers (70+ PAs), he places 14th in OPS, but there are a few RF'ers like Victorino who can play CF very well not listed.

    Out of the 20 "qualified" CF'ers, Ellsbury places 10th in OPS.

    I know he has a lot of value beyond OPS (SBs and defense to name two), but I just don't think it is right to pay anyone over $15M a year (and it may cost $18-21M) to be an average OPS player at his position or the 9th best on the team.

    Yes, we will miss him. No, he will not be easily replaced, especially his speed and decent OBP from the leadoff slot, but I think Shane can do well there, and if we pick up that middle of the order bopper, we can then move Pedey back to 2nd, Papi to 3rd and the new bopper 4th.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    Some people will just go by stats, not watch the player. Ellsbury is very valuable, and when he walks, people will see why.



    I'm getting real tired of peoiple that assume that because some of us use stats to back up our observations, we are somehow not watching the games and seeing hidden value.

    Of course, we will miss Ellsbury, but it is not this equation:

    Ellsbury (at $16-21M/yr) vs No Ellsbury (and nobody else)

    Rather, it is...

    Ellsbury vs $16-21M worth of upgrades at several positions + a comp pick

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    Go to sleep if your tired. Theres is a reason why Victorino is doing so well in 2nd spot. Has to get a lot of Fastballs because of Ellsbury. He's probably one of the best lead-off batters in baseball, you dont need stats for that.

    Like i said before expect 10 less wins when he leaves.

    Your a stat guy look at the stats JBJ had this year and Ellsbury in Pawtucket. Especially after July. They were so-so, for JBJ, Ellsbury was kicking but. Went from Double AA, to starting Centfielder that WON a WS, same year.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

    Go to sleep if your tired. Theres is a reason why Victorino is doing so well in 2nd spot. Has to get a lot of Fastballs because of Ellsbury. He's probably one of the best lead-off batters in baseball, you dont need stats for that.

    Like i said before expect 10 less wins when he leaves.

    Your a stat guy look at the stats JBJ had this year and Ellsbury in Pawtucket. Especially after July. They were so-so, for JBJ, Ellsbury was kicking but. Went from Double AA, to starting Centfielder that WON a WS, same year.



    It doesn't have to be Ellsbury for JBJ. It could be Ellsbury for $20M worth of other players, Victorino in CF and a big bopper in RF. Minus 10 for jacoby, then plus 10 for the bopper. Then, add the comp pick.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to crazyworldoftroybrown's comment:

     

     

     

    Some people will just go by stats, not watch the player. Ellsbury is very valuable, and when he walks, people will see why.

     

     



    I'm getting real tired of peoiple that assume that because some of us use stats to back up our observations, we are somehow not watching the games and seeing hidden value.

     

     

    Of course, we will miss Ellsbury, but it is not this equation:

    Ellsbury (at $16-21M/yr) vs No Ellsbury (and nobody else)

    Rather, it is...

    Ellsbury vs $16-21M worth of upgrades at several positions + a comp pick

     

     



     

    Both literally (the money itself) and figuratively (your ideas).

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    The Big Bopper went down with Buddy Holly and Richie Valens. Are there any others available in free agency ? Middlebrooks and Bogaerts could be low cost options. Might even see Napoli come back. We seem to be doing pretty well as it is. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    In response to slomag's comment:

    I don't see a regression for Bradley - he put up better numbers at AAA then he did in half a season at AA a year ago.  I think he'll be the guy - he's the better defender, and I would not be at all surprised if he had a higher OPS than Ells next year.  Certainly by 2015.  

     



    A standard issue with these conversations.

    • Come to a conclusion
    • Find data for that conclusion
    • Or make the data up and hope no one questions it

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    The Sox were very interested in Hunter Pence when he was with Houston before being traded to the Phillies . He is a dirt dog and seemingly a very good offensive threat.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: CF next season?

    In response to MadMc44's comment:

    The Sox were very interested in Hunter Pence when he was with Houston before being traded to the Phillies . He is a dirt dog and seemingly a very good offensive threat.



    Which is why the Giants wouldn't likely trade him.

     

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