Characters, not Character

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Characters, not Character

     Interesting to hear Theo and Tito discuss the clubhouse issues. The main one seemed to be not supporting each other. Without them saying specifics, we are stuck to draw our own conclusions. The demonstrative John Lackey has to be one of them, and Theo mentioned it specifically, so thats one. the other ones require more deductions, Big Papi, talking about Aceves, busting in to the presser regarding the scoring of a hit, and perhaps, because he's been around so long, going Rogue on other issues, in other words, "shut up and hit".
      Suppose Pedroia and his over-caffeinated pesonna rubs the real athletes the wrong way...we don't know. Crawford, despite his limited contributions, redeemed himself by taking responsibilty for his season. He needs to immerse himself in the new reality, learn how to work the count, and eliminate all the movement in the box. Finally, Youkilis, his tantrums are famous, even cost him a suspension, when they needed him, his calling out Jacoby, looks rather hollow given Ellsbury comeback from paraiah to MVP. What else has Mr.Hotheadsweatyhead done that we don't know about?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    big soap opera..and now wake wants to come back i hear so he can reach most wins (i still hope that was a fabricated quote)


     i will say this, tito has no one to blame but himself - i know his style is low key but when a meathead like Lackey disrespects your authority in front of 35k fans, and he himself has been a crapola pitcher (and you gave us two championships) I tell him and the rest of the nation he sits until he apologizes to his team and the fans...instead we have Tito defending him TODAY as a guy who is respected in the clubhouse...what malarky...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character:
    [QUOTE]big soap opera..and now wake wants to come back i hear so he can reach most wins (i still hope that was a fabricated quote)  i will say this, tito has no one to blame but himself - i know his style is low key but when a meathead like Lackey disrespects your authority in front of 35k fans, and he himself has been a crapola pitcher (and you gave us two championships) I tell him and the rest of the nation he sits until he apologizes to his team and the fans...instead we have Tito defending him TODAY as a guy who is respected in the clubhouse...what malarky...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

     Geo, if you're right here, than it follows that Tito lacks character. Sometimes dad has to be direct, and tell you, that you messed up. Acting like it didn't happen is enabling the wrong behavior.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Characters, not Character :  Geo, if you're right here, than it follows that Tito lacks character. Sometimes dad has to be direct, and tell you, that you messed up. Acting like it didn't happen is enabling the wrong behavior.
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20[/QUOTE]

    i watched the news conf...i posted what i heard on another thread...it was infuriating to see them in cya mode....why have a press conference at all if they are just going to tow the partry line....they should have been blunt, honest, and contrite...Theo was some of that but Francona was insufferable and sounded as stupid as i have ever heard him
     
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    Re: Characters, not Character

    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Characters, not Character : i watched the news conf...i posted what i heard on another thread...it was infuriating to see them in cya mode....why have a press conference at all if they are just going to tow the partry line....they should have been blunt, honest, and contrite...Theo was some of that but Francona was insufferable and sounded as stupid as i have ever heard him
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

     I thought it was telling that they appeared together, this means they're staying together. I didn't watch the whole thing, but I didn't see the CYA. They blamed themselves. I think your anger is clouding your judgement.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    sorry youk but theo was Ok with his explanations....but Francona was incoherent talking one minute about how "having everyone's back on the team was the most important thing", than calling out a reporter who asked about lackey's attitude and Tito responding he was respected and the problem is in our heads. then going back an saying there were some issues last night...he sounded like a drunk with his circular logic...and i wasnt angry at all until i saw the press conference...that made me angry - prior to that i was feeling sorry for our manager (he looked wicked stressed and his health problems are scary) 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Characters, not Character :  I thought it was telling that they appeared together, this means they're staying together. I didn't watch the whole thing, but I didn't see the CYA. They blamed themselves. I think your anger is clouding your judgement.
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20[/QUOTE]I agree it wasn't as much CYA as that they aren't going to rip any one specifically in public.

    Not a bad idea either as much as we all want to understand everything about the team because we passionately follow them. It is a better way to run their business by handling that stuff behind closed doors.

    But they did in different ways shed light on the fact that there were issues within the group.

    You are right we are left to speculate who too. And in another thread I too mentioned that I think that it is possible that Ortiz was one of the guys. There were bread crumbs out there.

    But it is hard to know for sure who the guys were but I am willing to bet that by even taking the lid off the can like the management did today the off the record comments and may be a few on the record will start to flow.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    I watched the news conference, and it was pretty obvious to me that they know what happened within the clubhouse.

    We'll know who the culprits are by what happens in the off season.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character:
    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character :  Geo, if you're right here, than it follows that Tito lacks character. Sometimes dad has to be direct, and tell you, that you messed up. Acting like it didn't happen is enabling the wrong behavior.
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20


    I don't agree here at all. Tito has shown plenty of character during his Boston tenure. One doesn't all of a sudden lose it in a month. It took character to allude to issues he never really had to in a public press conference.

    If Tito is coming up short controlling his team, or doesn't have the ability to see or act when a player or coach is coming up short, that's on Tito. But it's not lack of character. It is lack of knowledge or leadership. His loyalty to friends is a strong character trait, but it could also be his downfall.

    I think most folks who know him personally will tell you he's a quality individual.
    But not all quality individuals are right for an ever-changing job that might now demand more than he can deliver.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    Some suggest that starting pitchers Josh Beckett, Jon Lester and John Lackey have formed a clique that may sometimes include catcher Jason Varitek but few others. There is also some upset over Beckett declining to pitch to anyone but Varitek.

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/09/28/jimmy.rollins/index.html#ixzz1ZOkb072T
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from YOUKILLUS20. Show YOUKILLUS20's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character:
    [QUOTE]Some suggest that starting pitchers Josh Beckett, Jon Lester and John Lackey have formed a clique that may sometimes include catcher Jason Varitek but few others. There is also some upset over Beckett declining to pitch to anyone but Varitek. Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/09/28/jimmy.rollins/index.html#ixzz1ZOkb072T
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE]
     Zac, great reference. Beckett needs a little more scrutiny, he's not a horse exactly, might be a mule.
     
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    Re: Characters, not Character

    thanks youk

    I have no feel for it

    I just figured it was interesting

    if you hadn't seen it

     
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    Re: Characters, not Character

    Best thing from that piece was possible Selig retirement after 2012...one year too long and several too late.

    Cliques like Lackey/Lester/Beckett are not uncommon in baseball circles.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character:
    [QUOTE]big soap opera..and now wake wants to come back i hear so he can reach most wins (i still hope that was a fabricated quote)  i will say this, tito has no one to blame but himself - i know his style is low key but when a meathead like Lackey disrespects your authority in front of 35k fans, and he himself has been a crapola pitcher (and you gave us two championships) I tell him and the rest of the nation he sits until he apologizes to his team and the fans...instead we have Tito defending him TODAY as a guy who is respected in the clubhouse...what malarky...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]
    Thought that too when he said that about Lackey.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Characters, not Character :  I thought it was telling that they appeared together, this means they're staying together. I didn't watch the whole thing, but I didn't see the CYA. They blamed themselves. I think your anger is clouding your judgement.
    Posted by YOUKILLUS20[/QUOTE]
    Fox news has reported that Tito is leaving. I say Theo needs to leave with him. Sounds like the twosome sticks together.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Characters, not Character : I don't agree here at all. Tito has shown plenty of character during his Boston tenure. One doesn't all of a sudden lose it in a month. It took character to allude to issues he never really had to in a public press conference. If Tito is coming up short controlling his team, or doesn't have the ability to see or act when a player or coach is coming up short, that's on Tito. But it's not lack of character. It is lack of knowledge or leadership. His loyalty to friends is a strong character trait, but it could also be his downfall. I think most folks who know him personally will tell you he's a quality individual. But not all quality individuals are right for an ever-changing job that might now demand more than he can deliver.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]
    In the press conference what he had to say told that he could not control the team at all. He mentioned having a team meeting after the big win in Toronto. He held the meeting because of what he had seen on the team and did not like.
    Theo verified this. Theo also had his own meeting with the team. The team was out of control. Big egos and cliques= 2011 Sox
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Characters, not Character

    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character:
    [QUOTE]Best thing from that piece was possible Selig retirement after 2012...one year too long and several too late. Clicks like Lackey/Lester/Beckett are not uncommon in baseball circles.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]
    more in that clique than those three. Pedey, Tek, Lester, Beckett, Lackey among others. I read about Tek's engagement party and what teammates went with their wives.
     
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    Re: Characters, not Character

    In Response to Re: Characters, not Character:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Characters, not Character : more in that clique than those three. Pedey, Tek, Lester, Beckett, Lackey among others. I read about Tek's engagement party and what teammates went with their wives.
    Posted by DirtDawgSox[/QUOTE]

    Just can't believe I wasn't invited...
     
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