Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    I say that, unless there is evidence that he bet against his team, Pete Rose should now be reinstated in baseball and made eligible for Cooperstown. I do understand the " no gambling " rule and the argument about maybe trying harder to win when you had a bet down and possibly hurting your chances the next day. I get it. I still think this great player has now paid for all of that. I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. What say you? 


    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    NO

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    I would agree that he's paid long enough.  But what I think just doesn't matter.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I would agree that he's paid long enough.  But what I think just doesn't matter.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  What any of us think really doesn't matter. However, the new commissioner has to make the decision and he could possibly be influenced by public opinion. Not that he reads this forum. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    I was on the fence about this until we had a discussion about it here a few days ago.  Now I say let him in, but only with the stipulation that it's on a non-precedent setting basis.

    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

    And I have never posted here under any other names.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    He should not get in unless Shoeless Joe Jackson gets in first. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I say that, unless there is evidence that he bet against his team, Pete Rose should now be reinstated in baseball and made eligible for Cooperstown. I do understand the " no gambling " rule and the argument about maybe trying harder to win when you had a bet down and possibly hurting your chances the next day. I get it. I still think this great player has now paid for all of that. I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. What say you? 

     

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]

    no problem

     

     

     

     

    the day after he passes

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    pete rose should be in the HOF.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to devildavid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He should not get in unless Shoeless Joe Jackson gets in first. 

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  I don't have an opinion on the guilt or innocence of Shoeless Joe. But I think he was accused of throwing games, not just betting on them. If Rose threw any games, he should never get in. If all he did was bet on his team to win , while certainly a violation , it should not warrant a lifetime ban. Let the punishment fit the crime. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I say that, unless there is evidence that he bet against his team, Pete Rose should now be reinstated in baseball and made eligible for Cooperstown. I do understand the " no gambling " rule and the argument about maybe trying harder to win when you had a bet down and possibly hurting your chances the next day. I get it. I still think this great player has now paid for all of that. I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. What say you? 

     

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]

    no problem

     

     

     

     

    the day after he passes

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]. Passes, as in a high stakes poker game, dice game,    or as in " shuffles off this mortal coil? "  I think the latter would not do him much good. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I say that, unless there is evidence that he bet against his team, Pete Rose should now be reinstated in baseball and made eligible for Cooperstown. I do understand the " no gambling " rule and the argument about maybe trying harder to win when you had a bet down and possibly hurting your chances the next day. I get it. I still think this great player has now paid for all of that. I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. What say you? 

     

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]

    no problem

     

     

     

     

    the day after he passes

    [/QUOTE]

    I could live with that, he doesn't live to see, or enjoy it

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I say that, unless there is evidence that he bet against his team, Pete Rose should now be reinstated in baseball and made eligible for Cooperstown. I do understand the " no gambling " rule and the argument about maybe trying harder to win when you had a bet down and possibly hurting your chances the next day. I get it. I still think this great player has now paid for all of that. I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. What say you? 

     

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]

    no problem

     

     

     

     

    the day after he passes

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]. Passes, as in a high stakes poker game, dice game,    or as in " shuffles off this mortal coil? "  I think the latter would not do him much good. 

    [/QUOTE]

    That's the point, gale

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to devildavid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He should not get in unless Shoeless Joe Jackson gets in first. 

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  I don't have an opinion on the guilt or innocence of Shoeless Joe. But I think he was accused of throwing games, not just betting on them. If Rose threw any games, he should never get in. If all he did was bet on his team to win , while certainly a violation , it should not warrant a lifetime ban. Let the punishment fit the crime. 

    [/QUOTE]

    In pro baseball, gambling is an unpardonable sin. It's part of the legacy of pro ball that will never go away. The truth about Rose will never be known because he is a born liar.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to devildavid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to devildavid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He should not get in unless Shoeless Joe Jackson gets in first. 

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  I don't have an opinion on the guilt or innocence of Shoeless Joe. But I think he was accused of throwing games, not just betting on them. If Rose threw any games, he should never get in. If all he did was bet on his team to win , while certainly a violation , it should not warrant a lifetime ban. Let the punishment fit the crime. 

    [/QUOTE]

    In pro baseball, gambling is an unpardonable sin. It's part of the legacy of pro ball that will never go away. The truth about Rose will never be known because he is a born liar.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yup, he denied it, until he fessed up, to sell his book 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    Like Mickey Mantle said in his book 'The Mick', paraphrasing "Rose is a great singles hitter.  If I chose to be a singles hitter, I could probably very easily hit .400.  I swung from the heels every time.  If I were Pete Rose, I'd wear a skirt."

    Rose tarnished the great game of baseball.  Should he enter the HOF?  NO

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    As I said, let the punishment fit the crime. Be fair about it. You don't give the burglar the same punishment as the rapist or the murderer . Rose has been duly punished for what he did. There has been no accusation about anything worse. He bet on games that he was managing. He bet on his team to win. We can agree that this was a violation and was wrong. What he is known to be guilty of does not warrant a lifetime ban. Saying that he lied about it sounds extremely self righteous. In all honesty , I think that if he were a Red Sox hero , some of the hard liners might be just a little more forgiving. Think about it. He has paid the price for his transgressions. He did much for baseball. Enough is enough. Again, let the punishment fit the crime. No life sentence for gambling. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to ampoule's comment:


    Like Mickey Mantle said in his book 'The Mick', paraphrasing "Rose is a great singles hitter.  If I chose to be a singles hitter, I could probably very easily hit .400.  I swung from the heels every time.  If I were Pete Rose, I'd wear a skirt."


    Rose tarnished the great game of baseball.  Should he enter the HOF?  NO





    [object HTMLDivElement].  Mantle tarnished the great game of baseball in his own way. With his own demons. All players are what they are. Mantle was a power hitter and a great one. He could not simply choose to be a singles hitter any more than Rose could choose to be a power hitter. I seriously doubt that Mickey actually wrote his book. Pete Rose is a Hall of Fame ballplayer. A singles hitter, but a very great one.   By the way, there is no way that Mantle , or anyone, could " easily " hit .400. Ted was the last to do it, while also " swinging from the heels" . Mantle was no Williams. Neither was Rose. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    Yes. Definitely. 

    MLB rules on gambling were always draconian and hypocritical. Back in 1919 most players were making peanuts and had to moonlight just to make ends meet.  They were susceptible to bribes. If you think 1919 was an isolated case you're naive. Today, players make enough money to make throwing games a unnecessary risk.

    Few players played harder than Charlie Hustle. He's been punished enough. Let him in.

     

    ...the King of the Rumba Beat...

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    HOF is the same as prison? And now we inject rape and murder.... what a life. It is baseball, the HOF is not heaven.... not getting in is not as if you are closing the door on his soul. 

    Pete rose violated the rules, he is sort of an azz... and frankly being banned from HOF is not the same as life in prison.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]. It is an analogy. Nobody is saying that the Hall is heaven. Or prison. Or anything else like that. That should not be hard to understand.  It is about the different degrees of punishment for different offenses. And frankly, thanks for informing us that being banned from Cooperstown is not the same as life in prison . That added a lot to the discussion. By the way, being banned from baseball and the Hall of Fame is a very significant financial punishment for being "sort of an azz" . 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    yes and bringing up rape really really added a lot to the discussion.... 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  What are you even talking about? It was an analogy about the severity of crimes and how much worse rape is than burglary. The idea being that Rose is the burglar that does not deserve the same fate as the rapist. How can you not understand that? 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I say that, unless there is evidence that he bet against his team, Pete Rose should now be reinstated in baseball and made eligible for Cooperstown. I do understand the " no gambling " rule and the argument about maybe trying harder to win when you had a bet down and possibly hurting your chances the next day. I get it. I still think this great player has now paid for all of that. I think he belongs in the Hall of Fame. What say you? 

     

    Stabbed by Foulke.

    [/QUOTE]

    ABSOLUTELY!!!

    As you said, assuming there is no clear evidence that he was betting against HIS team, the team he was managing, then "throwing the games," HE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE IN THE HOF.

     

    In fact, what he did "OFF THE FIELD" is arguably much less serious than ANYBODY WHO EVER TOOK PED's while playing!  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ampoule's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Like Mickey Mantle said in his book 'The Mick', paraphrasing "Rose is a great singles hitter.  If I chose to be a singles hitter, I could probably very easily hit .400.  I swung from the heels every time.  If I were Pete Rose, I'd wear a skirt."

     

    Rose tarnished the great game of baseball.  Should he enter the HOF?  NO

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  Mantle tarnished the great game of baseball in his own way. With his own demons. All players are what they are. Mantle was a power hitter and a great one. He could not simply choose to be a singles hitter any more than Rose could choose to be a power hitter. I seriously doubt that Mickey actually wrote his book. Pete Rose is a Hall of Fame ballplayer. A singles hitter, but a very great one.   By the way, there is no way that Mantle , or anyone, could " easily " hit .400. Ted was the last to do it, while also " swinging from the heels" . Mantle was no Williams. Neither was Rose. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Mantle tarnished the game in his own way?  womanizing? drinking? Like a lot players today don't?

    He certainly gave it his all every game through devastating injury.

    Mantle and Rose had almost identical lifetime batting averages.  I'll make you a deal.  You can have punch and judy Rose and I'll keep Mantle.... 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    Mantle was a great player but those quotes are just brutally wrong.  I was not a big Rose fan myself, but the guy did have over 1000 extra-base hits in his career.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to ampoule's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ampoule's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Like Mickey Mantle said in his book 'The Mick', paraphrasing "Rose is a great singles hitter.  If I chose to be a singles hitter, I could probably very easily hit .400.  I swung from the heels every time.  If I were Pete Rose, I'd wear a skirt."

     

    Rose tarnished the great game of baseball.  Should he enter the HOF?  NO

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  Mantle tarnished the great game of baseball in his own way. With his own demons. All players are what they are. Mantle was a power hitter and a great one. He could not simply choose to be a singles hitter any more than Rose could choose to be a power hitter. I seriously doubt that Mickey actually wrote his book. Pete Rose is a Hall of Fame ballplayer. A singles hitter, but a very great one.   By the way, there is no way that Mantle , or anyone, could " easily " hit .400. Ted was the last to do it, while also " swinging from the heels" . Mantle was no Williams. Neither was Rose. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Mantle tarnished the game in his own way?  womanizing? drinking? Like a lot players today don't?

    He certainly gave it his all every game through devastating injury.

    Mantle and Rose had almost identical lifetime batting averages.  I'll make you a deal.  You can have punch and judy Rose and I'll keep Mantle.... 

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].  It is not an argument as to whether Mantle was better than Rose. Mantle is in the Hall. Rose is not. Rose deserves to be in. Rose may well have been guilty of drinking and womanizing , just as Mantle may well have gambled. Should Rose be denied his place because Mantle, or his ghost writer, bragged that he could easily have hit .400?  Besides being ridiculous , what does that have to do with Rose's credentials? They are two different ballplayers from two different eras. One is enshrined , despite his flaws. The other should be as well.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Charley Hustle. Hall of Fame ?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:


    Mantle was a great player but those quotes are just brutally wrong.  I was not a big Rose fan myself, but the guy did have over 1000 extra-base hits in his career.






    I don't know.  It was as close as I remember what the book said.


    My point is that Mantle had hustle, power, speed AND a batting average along with 900, or so, extra base hits.


    Maybe it's me.  I just have trouble with all the hoopla about Rose and not coming clean until his book.  And, who knows what other skeletons are in his closet that only the gamblers know about.


    Rose tarnished the fabric of the GAME.  A person tarnishing the game should not be enshrined in the HOF.  It's HOF, not Hall of Shame.

     
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