Cherington's achiles heel

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to eidlog's comment:

    This team has one glaring weakness which hasn't been addressed by Ben in his 2 years as GM-top of the rotation starting pitching. For 2 years Ben has told the media that he has faith in the top of the rotation starters and we'll be fine. I don't see it. He is putting his faith in Lester and Buchholz; I strongly disagree. Therefore, I don't see this team making it to the playoffs. That is very unfortunate for me as a Red Sox fan.

    What contract (in terms of years and salary) should the Red Sox have given to what free agent top-of-rotation starter?

    What players should the Red Sox have traded for what top-of-rotation starter?

    Be specific.

    Many teams are looking for that top-of-rotation starter which, of course, drives up the price.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to eidlog's comment:

    This team has one glaring weakness which hasn't been addressed by Ben in his 2 years as GM-top of the rotation starting pitching. For 2 years Ben has told the media that he has faith in the top of the rotation starters and we'll be fine. I don't see it. He is putting his faith in Lester and Buchholz; I strongly disagree. Therefore, I don't see this team making it to the playoffs. That is very unfortunate for me as a Red Sox fan.

     


    The season hasn't even started and picking apart sox..... Shame on you fake red sox fan

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from eidlog. Show eidlog's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    Lester: 9-14, 1.383, 4.82
    Buchholz: 11-8, 1.326, 4.56

    Those stats represent what the duo have accomplished since September, 2011.

    No. 3 man, Ryan  Dempster pitched worse than Lester and Buchholz in the second half of 2012, compiling a 5.09 ERA and 1.453 WHIP for the Rangers.

     

    Dempster has a lifetime ERA of 5.27 versus Toronto and 7.62 (with an 0-4 record) against the Yankees.

     

    Doubront slipped badly (1-5, 6.04 ERA) in August-September.

     

    And Jon Lackey -he has some of the worst ERA/WHIP numbers for a 150-Inning starter  6.41/1.619 in MLB history.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to eidlog's comment:

    Doubront slipped badly (1-5, 6.04 ERA) in August-September.



    But in his last 4 starts his ERA was 3.08.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to eidlog's comment:

     

    Lester: 9-14, 1.383, 4.82
    Buchholz: 11-8, 1.326, 4.56

    Those stats represent what the duo have accomplished since September, 2011.

    No. 3 man R

    yan Dempster pitched worse than Lester and Buchholz in the second half of 2012, compiling a 5.09 ERA and 1.453 WHIP for the Rangers.

     

    Dempster has a lifetime ERA of 5.27 versus Toronto and 7.62 (with an 0-4 record) against the Yankees.

     

    Doubront slipped badly (1-5, 6.04 ERA) in August-September.

     

    And Jon Lackey -he has some of the worst ERA/WHIP numbers for a 150-Inning starter — 6.41/1.619 in ’11 alone! — in MLB history.

     




    Before his off season of 2012 Jon Lester was 76-35 with a low to mid 3 ERA and around a 1.2 WHIP in the ALE...Does that not say TOTR pitcher? Is it Ok for a pitcher to have a down year?

     

    Maybe Lester isnt an "elite" pitcher, but to suggest he's a #3 and relying on his worst year stats is pink hatting at its best.

    Could we use a Justin verlander? Of course. Problem is, not every team is lucky enough to acquire/find/have one. If Lester can be the pitcher he was prior to 2012, Id take that. I can remember him being in the Cy Young discussions more than once.

    AGAIN...What FA would you have overpaid for this year? (Remember last year there was no $$ to spend). What Prospects would you trade, and for who? News Flash: GMs are NOT getting rid of TOTR pitchers unless your ready to unload the farm.

    Im pretty sure Ben would like a TOTR starter worse than you would, seeing hes the GM and all. I also think if their was one that was available AND attainable, he would jump at it.

    Sorry for your disappointment already this year...I hear the rays need some fans.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to eidlog's comment:

    This team has one glaring weakness which hasn't been addressed by Ben in his 2 years as GM-top of the rotation starting pitching. For 2 years Ben has told the media that he has faith in the top of the rotation starters and we'll be fine. I don't see it. He is putting his faith in Lester and Buchholz; I strongly disagree. Therefore, I don't see this team making it to the playoffs. That is very unfortunate for me as a Red Sox fan.

     




    Spot on Eidlog. And its not just Ben who has dropped the ball. Epstein was here when the decline began in 2008. Since then, on a fairly regular basis, our pitching has dropped in ERA ranking in the league on a nearly annual basis, sinking to 12th last year. There are those here who will make excuses about why Epstein and Cherington have failed to do the job, but in the end it IS their job to do. I wonder how many employed here could last very long in their own jobs if instead of success they offered excuses to the management. I give Cherington credit where credit is due: disimpacting the franchise from three albatross contracts AND getting two good pitching prospects in return was very good. Beyond that, he has done next to nothing to make this team competitive again.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to eidlog's comment:

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    It is a shame.

     

    I mean, all he has to do is fill out the right forms and get a tracking number, and then wait for the top of the rotation starter to be delivered to his doorstep...

     



    Free agency/trades

     

     



    I agree we need a TOR.

     

    But you're not really answering the question.  Who are the FAs he should've acquired this year? One-time AS Greinke?




    There was no good TOR SP available this year. It was never about THIS year. There was no practical way for Cherington to make us a team that could compete for a ring in 2013. This is about 2015. Since the season ended what has our illustrious GM done to IMPROVE the team for 2015?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to gr82bme's comment:

     

    Agree with those saying, "who could you get?"  I mean King Felix just signed a mega-contract, but what else was out there?  Dickey?  Hey, I'm all for a starting rotation of in-their-primes Walter Johnson, Cy Young, Chrisy Matthewson, Lefty Grove, and Sandy Kofax - with a relief core of Rollie Fingers, Sparky Lyle, Goose Gossage, Dan Quissenberry, with Mo Rivera as our closer - thing is, there's nothing out there that even remotly resembles this august group.


    And to be honest, I don't think King Felix as our TOR guy would help too appreciably.  Unless we get career years out of 3 or 4 regulars, we won't be sniffing at the playoffs - but, that's why they play the games.  GO SOX!

     



    Dickey won rhe Cy Young LAST YEAR!!!

     

     

    He is easily among the 10 best SP inMLB.

     

    The drawback was that he would have cost Bogaerts and Bradley. ..ad

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    Grineke 25 mil wouldve been better than Drew/Victorino/Dempster/$$$pent

     

    i think this was a huge mistake....the OP is correct - at the end of the day this team will be lucky to reach .500 with its current group of starters

    you think they will be over 500?

     



    Tag bet, or have you learned your lesson?

     

     




     

     



    Yes

     

     



    your keen powers of insight have failed you again....beckett was traded in 2012 - as i stated because of his idiocy...and i have already addressed your tag line bet...read again

     



    1-That Beckett was traded in 2012 has no relevance.  The bet was as of 4/1.

    2-You paid off on your end, albeit with a little prodding from me.

    3-But none of that is relevant.  You said the RS would be lucky to be .500.  I am willing to wager that they will be over .500, and have offered you a tag bet on it.

    Now that Beckett is behind us, are you will to back your opinion with a tag bet.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to eidlog's comment:

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    It is a shame.

     

    I mean, all he has to do is fill out the right forms and get a tracking number, and then wait for the top of the rotation starter to be delivered to his doorstep...

     



    Free agency/trades

     

     



    I agree we need a TOR.

     

    But you're not really answering the question.  Who are the FAs he should've acquired this year? One-time AS Greinke?

     




     

    There was no good TOR SP available this year. It was never about THIS year. There was no practical way for Cherington to make us a team that could compete for a ring in 2013. This is about 2015. Since the season ended what has our illustrious GM done to IMPROVE the team for 2015?



    There are two ways to get better in 2015.

    1-To draft talent.  He allowed Paps to walk last year and picked up extra picks.

    2-By trading for minor leaguers, which he did by acquiring Webster and DLR.

    That's all there is to it.  Are there other ways to get better in 2015 that I am unaware of?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to eidlog's comment:

    Lester: 9-14, 1.383, 4.82
    Buchholz: 11-8, 1.326, 4.56

    Those stats represent what the duo have accomplished since September, 2011.

    No. 3 man, Ryan  Dempster pitched worse than Lester and Buchholz in the second half of 2012, compiling a 5.09 ERA and 1.453 WHIP for the Rangers.

     

    Dempster has a lifetime ERA of 5.27 versus Toronto and 7.62 (with an 0-4 record) against the Yankees.

     

    Doubront slipped badly (1-5, 6.04 ERA) in August-September.

     

    And Jon Lackey -he has some of the worst ERA/WHIP numbers for a 150-Inning starter  6.41/1.619 in MLB history.



    Okay, today's exercise is to cherry-pick stats?

    • Lester was #10 SP in all of BB 2010-2012.
    • Bucholz Had the #4 ERA for SPs with at least 250 IP for 2010-2011
    • Dempster had a 4.01 ERA in his last 9 starts after the trade.
    • Doubront had a 3.08 in has last 4 starts.
    • Lackey had a 4.40 in his one healthy season with us.

    Instead of cherry-picking stats, why not post what their projections are from say, an expert like Bill James?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to eidlog's comment:

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    It is a shame.

     

    I mean, all he has to do is fill out the right forms and get a tracking number, and then wait for the top of the rotation starter to be delivered to his doorstep...

     



    Free agency/trades

     

     




     

    If Rubby De Le Rosa emerges as a TOR starter, will Cherington have fulfiulled his obligtion to you?

     

    Free agency is a horrible way to get anything important.  The disadvantages outweigh the shrt term goals.  Free agency is not for building, it is for supplementing. 

     

    No points awarded...




    While in general I agree with you, especially regarding pitching, the Yankees have done quite well in this regard, no? A-Rod, Swisher (I believe), Martin, Ibanez, Nix, Youkilis, Hafner, Kuroda (heck, their entire bench each season, almost).

    If I remember right they got Teixeira, Burnett, and Sabathia in one off-season.  Though Burnett was never great, Sabathia and Teixeira have gone on to anchor the team in the rotation and offense, respectively.  Soriano saved their bullpen's behind last season, Aardsma may save it this season. 

    So building a successful team on the back of FA signings CAN be done; it just has to be done smartly and agressively.  Which does mean overpaying, which is why I am generally against the idea from a business standpoint.  But to write it off as useless or nonsense is ignoring facts.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    Grineke 25 mil wouldve been better than Drew/Victorino/Dempster/$$$pent

     

    i think this was a huge mistake....the OP is correct - at the end of the day this team will be lucky to reach .500 with its current group of starters

    you think they will be over 500?

     



    Tag bet, or have you learned your lesson?

     

     




     

     



    Yes

     

     



    your keen powers of insight have failed you again....beckett was traded in 2012 - as i stated because of his idiocy...and i have already addressed your tag line bet...read again

     




    Actually what you stated was that Beckett would be gone by the time ST was over. Or did you include JoeB in your sig just because you felt like it?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to Triumph-'s comment:

     

    pumpsiegreen of course backs the OP

    the original pink hat

     




    Do you EVER post baseball opinions and argue the baseball points in a thread? 

     

    This attacking posters cr*p from you is getting REAL stale!!!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to eidlog's comment:

    Lester: 9-14, 1.383, 4.82
    Buchholz: 11-8, 1.326, 4.56

    Those stats represent what the duo have accomplished since September, 2011.

    No. 3 man, Ryan  Dempster pitched worse than Lester and Buchholz in the second half of 2012, compiling a 5.09 ERA and 1.453 WHIP for the Rangers.

     

    Dempster has a lifetime ERA of 5.27 versus Toronto and 7.62 (with an 0-4 record) against the Yankees.

     

    Doubront slipped badly (1-5, 6.04 ERA) in August-September.

     

    And Jon Lackey -he has some of the worst ERA/WHIP numbers for a 150-Inning starter  6.41/1.619 in MLB history.




    You're still avoiding the question. What TOTR FA starter should Ben have acquired this winter? What ace should he have traded for, or failing that what ace starter was actually available?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    Not that you are asking me, but Dan Haren and Sanchez, IMO.

    Then he could have traded Doubront for some prospect or two to make up for the lost draft pick.  Same idea behind my recent thread about Lohse.  Not that any of the three Fa pitchers I just mentioned are real staff aces, but all have the potential to pitch better than any of the Sox starters did in 2012.  Thus they would have slot in at the top of the rotation and moved others down in the depth chart.  He could have really improved the rotation this off-season and did not.  That much is true, without a doubt in my mind.

    Dempster was not a bad add, but Sanchez and Haren are likely much better choices, and Grienke would have been, too, although an overpay.  Lohse may well be a better gamble than Dempster also.  The only good I see in what Cherington did, is he left the door open for Webster, De LaRosa, and Barnes to walk through.  But as for improving the team for 2013, he did not do nearly as much as he could have or should have, IMO.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    Grineke 25 mil wouldve been better than Drew/Victorino/Dempster/$$$pent

     

    i think this was a huge mistake....the OP is correct - at the end of the day this team will be lucky to reach .500 with its current group of starters

    you think they will be over 500?

     



    Tag bet, or have you learned your lesson?

     

     




     

     



    Yes

     

     



    your keen powers of insight have failed you again....beckett was traded in 2012 - as i stated because of his idiocy...and i have already addressed your tag line bet...read again

     

     




    Actually what you stated was that Beckett would be gone by the time ST was over. Or did you include JoeB in your sig just because you felt like it?

     



    because that was the bet and i lost it...he wasnt gone by ST...but i said he would be traded and he was in 2012...are you going to bet the sox finish over .500 in 2013?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    Grineke 25 mil wouldve been better than Drew/Victorino/Dempster/$$$pent

     

    i think this was a huge mistake....the OP is correct - at the end of the day this team will be lucky to reach .500 with its current group of starters

    you think they will be over 500?

     



    Tag bet, or have you learned your lesson?

     

     




     

     



    Yes

     

     



    your keen powers of insight have failed you again....beckett was traded in 2012 - as i stated because of his idiocy...and i have already addressed your tag line bet...read again

     

     




    Actually what you stated was that Beckett would be gone by the time ST was over. Or did you include JoeB in your sig just because you felt like it?

     

     



    because that was the bet and i lost it...he wasnt gone by ST...but i said he would be traded and he was in 2012...are you going to bet the sox finish over .500 in 2013?

     




    Since we don't have signatures anymore how would that work? But I will very confidently predict that the Sox will finish over .500 this year.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to parhunter55's comment:

    In response to Triumph-'s comment:

     

    pumpsiegreen of course backs the OP

    the original pink hat

     




    Do you EVER post baseball opinions and argue the baseball points in a thread? 

     

    This attacking posters cr*p from you is getting REAL stale!!!



    Parhunter, Chukkas like that are best ignored. He is the only person I have on ignore so the only way I can see the useless drivel he writes as an excuse for a post is if someone else quotes him. Moral carcasses like him crave attention; deprived of it they wilt into oblivion. I suggest using your ignore button or at least please don't quote him so I don't have to read his crap.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to eidlog's comment:

     

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    It is a shame.

     

    I mean, all he has to do is fill out the right forms and get a tracking number, and then wait for the top of the rotation starter to be delivered to his doorstep...

     



    Free agency/trades

     

     



    I agree we need a TOR.

     

    But you're not really answering the question.  Who are the FAs he should've acquired this year? One-time AS Greinke?

     




     

    There was no good TOR SP available this year. It was never about THIS year. There was no practical way for Cherington to make us a team that could compete for a ring in 2013. This is about 2015. Since the season ended what has our illustrious GM done to IMPROVE the team for 2015?

     



    There are two ways to get better in 2015.

     

    1-To draft talent.  He allowed Paps to walk last year and picked up extra picks.

    2-By trading for minor leaguers, which he did by acquiring Webster and DLR.

    That's all there is to it.  Are there other ways to get better in 2015 that I am unaware of?



    Allowing Paps to walk was a no brainer, but you are right, it was the correct move. And we got Webster and DLR in August. This offseason has been devoid of significant improvements, and its six months long. Yes, there are other ways we could have planned for 2015. Trading Ellsbury or one of our catchers or one of our minor league position players in return for a pitcher with promise would have made us better in 2015 in terms of being more competitive for a ring.

     
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