Cherington's achiles heel

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    Allowing Paps to walk was a no brainer, but you are right, it was the correct move. And we got Webster and DLR in August. This offseason has been devoid of significant improvements, and its six months long. Yes, there are other ways we could have planned for 2015. Trading Ellsbury or one of our catchers or one of our minor league position players in return for a pitcher with promise would have made us better in 2015 in terms of being more competitive for a ring.

    Two problems with your two solutions

    1-Trading Ellsbury-What would we get today?  What will we get when he walks?  My guess is that it would not be significantly different.

    2-We don't have catchers to trade.  We have one catcher to trade.  What do you think Salty would fetch?

    You are suggesting trading two pieces that I don't think will make us much different than what we'll get in another year.  Meanwhile, we can still compete this year with them.

     



    Ellsbury could have been packaged with either Salty or some minor league position player prospects to bring us a good pitching prospect. The concept is that anyone who is not in the plans for 2015 is fair game to be traded. You don't have to trade everyone; we do need to field a team this year, but there should be no pretending this is a team that will contend for a ring. I just don't see any significant moves made by our GM this winter at all.

     

     



    You really haven't gotten past the previous question.  You basically want to dump the 2013 season in favor of getting a marginally better prospect than we would get by hanging onto Ellsbury.

     




    Its not that I WANT to dump the 2013 season, its that we simply don't have the team to make a run at a ring. Sure, I will be there watching with all the other fans, knowing how unlikely it is that we can be much more than a .500 team. That would be much more palatable if I felt we were doing everything possible to make a real exciting run at a ring in 2015. Sitting pat is simply not an option, but thats what Cherington did, essentially, this winter. We do not know what a package of Ellsbury and Salty would have reeled in, so lets not pretend we do. I would have a lot more fun watching a .450 team with lots of good pitching prospects than a .500 team with fewer.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

    JEF429 and I don't get along together but we both agree ( I think) that Ellsbury is our favorite player.  I want to enjoy watching Jacoby playing for the Sox this year.  He is exciting to watch, who can forget him stealing home vs. the Yankees ( sorry to bug our forum Yankee fans who are so sensitive but this is a Red Sox forum and not a neutral or Yankee forum), he can score from first base on a double, plays excellent defense, beats out hits, and is capable of being an offensive force when healthy. Some forum bozos claim that he is injury prone since a teammate ran into him or a rival secondbaseman fell onto him - which is ludicrous. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and not "injury prone". Only trolls or those who don't think  would claim that he was "injury prone.

    As a Red Sox fan and not the GM or owner, I am not obsessed with trading him at peak value ( that is what people in the stock market care about). It is true that the GM would have such concerns but I don't. I am not a day trader in the stock market - I am a fan. I want to live the coming season with the hand that I have been dealt with by the franchise. No need to second-guess the roster, GM, owner, every day. Life is too short to worry, and be miserable every day. Enjoy yourself, it is later than you think. Try to be happy. Enjoy Ellsbury for another year instead of obsessing on trading him  at peak value. Be a fan - not a stock trader.



    I am a fan. Thats why I want the team to eventually be successful. There are all kinds of fans with all different opinions about how the team should proceed, not just one kind of fan. I would rather get rid of Ellsbury if we can get value in return than watch him play this year and leave the team on Oct 1.

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     

    JEF429 and I don't get along together but we both agree ( I think) that Ellsbury is our favorite player.  I want to enjoy watching Jacoby playing for the Sox this year.  He is exciting to watch, who can forget him stealing home vs. the Yankees ( sorry to bug our forum Yankee fans who are so sensitive but this is a Red Sox forum and not a neutral or Yankee forum), he can score from first base on a double, plays excellent defense, beats out hits, and is capable of being an offensive force when healthy. Some forum bozos claim that he is injury prone since a teammate ran into him or a rival secondbaseman fell onto him - which is ludicrous. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and not "injury prone". Only trolls or those who don't think  would claim that he was "injury prone.

    As a Red Sox fan and not the GM or owner, I am not obsessed with trading him at peak value ( that is what people in the stock market care about). It is true that the GM would have such concerns but I don't. I am not a day trader in the stock market - I am a fan. I want to live the coming season with the hand that I have been dealt with by the franchise. No need to second-guess the roster, GM, owner, every day. Life is too short to worry, and be miserable every day. Enjoy yourself, it is later than you think. Try to be happy. Enjoy Ellsbury for another year instead of obsessing on trading him  at peak value. Be a fan - not a stock trader.

     



    I am a fan. Thats why I want the team to eventually be successful. There are all kinds of fans with all different opinions about how the team should proceed, not just one kind of fan. I would rather get rid of Ellsbury if we can get value in return than watch him play this year and leave the team on Oct 1.

     




    he may not. It all falls on ben and management on what we're willing to pay to retain him.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     

    JEF429 and I don't get along together but we both agree ( I think) that Ellsbury is our favorite player.  I want to enjoy watching Jacoby playing for the Sox this year.  He is exciting to watch, who can forget him stealing home vs. the Yankees ( sorry to bug our forum Yankee fans who are so sensitive but this is a Red Sox forum and not a neutral or Yankee forum), he can score from first base on a double, plays excellent defense, beats out hits, and is capable of being an offensive force when healthy. Some forum bozos claim that he is injury prone since a teammate ran into him or a rival secondbaseman fell onto him - which is ludicrous. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and not "injury prone". Only trolls or those who don't think  would claim that he was "injury prone.

    As a Red Sox fan and not the GM or owner, I am not obsessed with trading him at peak value ( that is what people in the stock market care about). It is true that the GM would have such concerns but I don't. I am not a day trader in the stock market - I am a fan. I want to live the coming season with the hand that I have been dealt with by the franchise. No need to second-guess the roster, GM, owner, every day. Life is too short to worry, and be miserable every day. Enjoy yourself, it is later than you think. Try to be happy. Enjoy Ellsbury for another year instead of obsessing on trading him  at peak value. Be a fan - not a stock trader.

     



    I am a fan. Thats why I want the team to eventually be successful. There are all kinds of fans with all different opinions about how the team should proceed, not just one kind of fan. I would rather get rid of Ellsbury if we can get value in return than watch him play this year and leave the team on Oct 1.

     

     




    he may not. It all falls on ben and management on what we're willing to pay to retain him.

     




    He is a Borass client. He will be difficult to retain.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     

    JEF429 and I don't get along together but we both agree ( I think) that Ellsbury is our favorite player.  I want to enjoy watching Jacoby playing for the Sox this year.  He is exciting to watch, who can forget him stealing home vs. the Yankees ( sorry to bug our forum Yankee fans who are so sensitive but this is a Red Sox forum and not a neutral or Yankee forum), he can score from first base on a double, plays excellent defense, beats out hits, and is capable of being an offensive force when healthy. Some forum bozos claim that he is injury prone since a teammate ran into him or a rival secondbaseman fell onto him - which is ludicrous. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and not "injury prone". Only trolls or those who don't think  would claim that he was "injury prone.

    As a Red Sox fan and not the GM or owner, I am not obsessed with trading him at peak value ( that is what people in the stock market care about). It is true that the GM would have such concerns but I don't. I am not a day trader in the stock market - I am a fan. I want to live the coming season with the hand that I have been dealt with by the franchise. No need to second-guess the roster, GM, owner, every day. Life is too short to worry, and be miserable every day. Enjoy yourself, it is later than you think. Try to be happy. Enjoy Ellsbury for another year instead of obsessing on trading him  at peak value. Be a fan - not a stock trader.

     



    I am a fan. Thats why I want the team to eventually be successful. There are all kinds of fans with all different opinions about how the team should proceed, not just one kind of fan. I would rather get rid of Ellsbury if we can get value in return than watch him play this year and leave the team on Oct 1.

     

     




    he may not. It all falls on ben and management on what we're willing to pay to retain him.

     

     




    He is a Borass client. He will be difficult to retain.

     

     




    Lots of players are Borass clients. including JBJ. you can't NOT deal with him...

    we have just as good a chance (i would say a better chance) to sign him as anyone.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     

    JEF429 and I don't get along together but we both agree ( I think) that Ellsbury is our favorite player.  I want to enjoy watching Jacoby playing for the Sox this year.  He is exciting to watch, who can forget him stealing home vs. the Yankees ( sorry to bug our forum Yankee fans who are so sensitive but this is a Red Sox forum and not a neutral or Yankee forum), he can score from first base on a double, plays excellent defense, beats out hits, and is capable of being an offensive force when healthy. Some forum bozos claim that he is injury prone since a teammate ran into him or a rival secondbaseman fell onto him - which is ludicrous. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and not "injury prone". Only trolls or those who don't think  would claim that he was "injury prone.

    As a Red Sox fan and not the GM or owner, I am not obsessed with trading him at peak value ( that is what people in the stock market care about). It is true that the GM would have such concerns but I don't. I am not a day trader in the stock market - I am a fan. I want to live the coming season with the hand that I have been dealt with by the franchise. No need to second-guess the roster, GM, owner, every day. Life is too short to worry, and be miserable every day. Enjoy yourself, it is later than you think. Try to be happy. Enjoy Ellsbury for another year instead of obsessing on trading him  at peak value. Be a fan - not a stock trader.

     



    I am a fan. Thats why I want the team to eventually be successful. There are all kinds of fans with all different opinions about how the team should proceed, not just one kind of fan. I would rather get rid of Ellsbury if we can get value in return than watch him play this year and leave the team on Oct 1.

     

     




    he may not. It all falls on ben and management on what we're willing to pay to retain him.

     

     




    He is a Borass client. He will be difficult to retain.

     

     

     




    Lots of players are Borass clients. including JBJ. you can't NOT deal with him...

     

    we have just as good a chance (i would say a better chance) to sign him as anyone.



    He will rightfully go where the money and the years are offered. I hope the Sox do not make the same mistakes all over again by signing him to too many years at too much money. It would be nice to keep him for the right price, but I doubt they will offer him what he can get elsewhere, and given the way he was treated with his injuries a few years ago, we aren't getting a home town discount. I would be surprised if he is still on the team next year.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    Ellsbury is gone not just because of his contract situation, but because we have a replacement in Bradley.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Ellsbury is gone not just because of his contract situation, but because we have a replacement in Bradley.




    you mean a replacement that can play anywhere in the OF? you do know that you can have more than 1 OF'er at a time right?

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

    This schrolling which regurgitates everything and you can't see who responded to your post without doing surgery will be the downfall of this forum.  BDC, make it like a movie script. I don't need to keep seeing everything repeated over and over. BDC has been alerted to this problem a thousand times and refuses to recognize it or remedy it. When you watch a panel debate on TV, do they repeat all prior comments everytime that anyone speaks? This is ridiculous.




    if you don't like it find a new forum.

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     

    This schrolling which regurgitates everything and you can't see who responded to your post without doing surgery will be the downfall of this forum.  BDC, make it like a movie script. I don't need to keep seeing everything repeated over and over. BDC has been alerted to this problem a thousand times and refuses to recognize it or remedy it. When you watch a panel debate on TV, do they repeat all prior comments everytime that anyone speaks? This is ridiculous.

     




    if you don't like it find a new forum.

     

     




     

    It was a complaint to the software people. Why are you so outraged at that? Do you enjoy the schrolling, I don't. It has nothing to do with any of my opinions and yours on anything else. Many others also dislike the schrolling problem, read the complaints to Dottie / BDC on the other forums.  Why be so petty, personal, and vindictive? Do you prefer schrolling for two minutes in order to see a two word reply to your most recent post?




    so why put your complaint here when there is a specified area that Dottie and Co checks?

    and no, i have no issue with it. as long as your not using the arrow keys to scroll through a page it is a minor inconvenience at the most. press the spacebar. presto!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     

    JEF429 and I don't get along together but we both agree ( I think) that Ellsbury is our favorite player.  I want to enjoy watching Jacoby playing for the Sox this year.  He is exciting to watch, who can forget him stealing home vs. the Yankees ( sorry to bug our forum Yankee fans who are so sensitive but this is a Red Sox forum and not a neutral or Yankee forum), he can score from first base on a double, plays excellent defense, beats out hits, and is capable of being an offensive force when healthy. Some forum bozos claim that he is injury prone since a teammate ran into him or a rival secondbaseman fell onto him - which is ludicrous. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and not "injury prone". Only trolls or those who don't think  would claim that he was "injury prone.

    As a Red Sox fan and not the GM or owner, I am not obsessed with trading him at peak value ( that is what people in the stock market care about). It is true that the GM would have such concerns but I don't. I am not a day trader in the stock market - I am a fan. I want to live the coming season with the hand that I have been dealt with by the franchise. No need to second-guess the roster, GM, owner, every day. Life is too short to worry, and be miserable every day. Enjoy yourself, it is later than you think. Try to be happy. Enjoy Ellsbury for another year instead of obsessing on trading him  at peak value. Be a fan - not a stock trader.

     



    I am a fan. Thats why I want the team to eventually be successful. There are all kinds of fans with all different opinions about how the team should proceed, not just one kind of fan. I would rather get rid of Ellsbury if we can get value in return than watch him play this year and leave the team on Oct 1.

     

     




    he may not. It all falls on ben and management on what we're willing to pay to retain him.

     

     




    He is a Borass client. He will be difficult to retain.

     

     

     




    Lots of players are Borass clients. including JBJ. you can't NOT deal with him...

     

    we have just as good a chance (i would say a better chance) to sign him as anyone.



    Mef429,

    I think the Sox have as good a working relationship with Boras as anyone.  I don't think that is an issue at all.  I heard at the Winter Meetings that too many people in the Sox organization think Ellsbury is too soft (That's putting it nicely), and they clearly tried to move him this winter, but they weren't going to give him away.  They offered him in a package for Cliff Lee early on, but the Phillies think they can win now (most teams do at this point), the free agent market was saturated with centerfielders and the Phillies were able to get Ben Revere while keeping the "big three" together.  Obviously things can change during this season, but I think it would take something like a World Series MVP Award and an serious overpay for Ellsbury to come back next year. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    It was a complaint to the software people. Why are you so outraged at that? Do you enjoy the schrolling, I don't.

     

    Then do something about it. Don't wait for others to do it for you.

    It is not that hard.

    Simply cut & paste the part you want to respond to and do it... like this.

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     

    JEF429 and I don't get along together but we both agree ( I think) that Ellsbury is our favorite player.  I want to enjoy watching Jacoby playing for the Sox this year.  He is exciting to watch, who can forget him stealing home vs. the Yankees ( sorry to bug our forum Yankee fans who are so sensitive but this is a Red Sox forum and not a neutral or Yankee forum), he can score from first base on a double, plays excellent defense, beats out hits, and is capable of being an offensive force when healthy. Some forum bozos claim that he is injury prone since a teammate ran into him or a rival secondbaseman fell onto him - which is ludicrous. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and not "injury prone". Only trolls or those who don't think  would claim that he was "injury prone.

    As a Red Sox fan and not the GM or owner, I am not obsessed with trading him at peak value ( that is what people in the stock market care about). It is true that the GM would have such concerns but I don't. I am not a day trader in the stock market - I am a fan. I want to live the coming season with the hand that I have been dealt with by the franchise. No need to second-guess the roster, GM, owner, every day. Life is too short to worry, and be miserable every day. Enjoy yourself, it is later than you think. Try to be happy. Enjoy Ellsbury for another year instead of obsessing on trading him  at peak value. Be a fan - not a stock trader.

     



    I am a fan. Thats why I want the team to eventually be successful. There are all kinds of fans with all different opinions about how the team should proceed, not just one kind of fan. I would rather get rid of Ellsbury if we can get value in return than watch him play this year and leave the team on Oct 1.

     

     




    he may not. It all falls on ben and management on what we're willing to pay to retain him.

     

     




    He is a Borass client. He will be difficult to retain.

     

     

     




    Lots of players are Borass clients. including JBJ. you can't NOT deal with him...

     

    we have just as good a chance (i would say a better chance) to sign him as anyone.




    Exactly. You know who else are Boras clients? Xander Bogaerts, Deven Marerro and Anthony Ranaudo. Not to mention JD Drew and Daisuke Matsuzaka. The fact that Ellsbury is a Boras client is no obstacle at all. Asking him to move to LF when Bradley comes up bight be though.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    Allowing Paps to walk was a no brainer, but you are right, it was the correct move. And we got Webster and DLR in August. This offseason has been devoid of significant improvements, and its six months long. Yes, there are other ways we could have planned for 2015. Trading Ellsbury or one of our catchers or one of our minor league position players in return for a pitcher with promise would have made us better in 2015 in terms of being more competitive for a ring.

    Two problems with your two solutions

    1-Trading Ellsbury-What would we get today?  What will we get when he walks?  My guess is that it would not be significantly different.

    2-We don't have catchers to trade.  We have one catcher to trade.  What do you think Salty would fetch?

    You are suggesting trading two pieces that I don't think will make us much different than what we'll get in another year.  Meanwhile, we can still compete this year with them.

     



    Ellsbury could have been packaged with either Salty or some minor league position player prospects to bring us a good pitching prospect. The concept is that anyone who is not in the plans for 2015 is fair game to be traded. You don't have to trade everyone; we do need to field a team this year, but there should be no pretending this is a team that will contend for a ring. I just don't see any significant moves made by our GM this winter at all.

     

     



    You really haven't gotten past the previous question.  You basically want to dump the 2013 season in favor of getting a marginally better prospect than we would get by hanging onto Ellsbury.

     

     




    Its not that I WANT to dump the 2013 season, its that we simply don't have the team to make a run at a ring. Sure, I will be there watching with all the other fans, knowing how unlikely it is that we can be much more than a .500 team. That would be much more palatable if I felt we were doing everything possible to make a real exciting run at a ring in 2015. Sitting pat is simply not an option, but thats what Cherington did, essentially, this winter. We do not know what a package of Ellsbury and Salty would have reeled in, so lets not pretend we do. I would have a lot more fun watching a .450 team with lots of good pitching prospects than a .500 team with fewer.

     

     




    2 guys who are 1 year rentals and everyone and their mother questions Salty's defense and Ellsbury's health wouldnt have brought much back. I think thats pretty obvious. The team was better off keeping them.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     

    JEF429 and I don't get along together but we both agree ( I think) that Ellsbury is our favorite player.  I want to enjoy watching Jacoby playing for the Sox this year.  He is exciting to watch, who can forget him stealing home vs. the Yankees ( sorry to bug our forum Yankee fans who are so sensitive but this is a Red Sox forum and not a neutral or Yankee forum), he can score from first base on a double, plays excellent defense, beats out hits, and is capable of being an offensive force when healthy. Some forum bozos claim that he is injury prone since a teammate ran into him or a rival secondbaseman fell onto him - which is ludicrous. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and not "injury prone". Only trolls or those who don't think  would claim that he was "injury prone.

    As a Red Sox fan and not the GM or owner, I am not obsessed with trading him at peak value ( that is what people in the stock market care about). It is true that the GM would have such concerns but I don't. I am not a day trader in the stock market - I am a fan. I want to live the coming season with the hand that I have been dealt with by the franchise. No need to second-guess the roster, GM, owner, every day. Life is too short to worry, and be miserable every day. Enjoy yourself, it is later than you think. Try to be happy. Enjoy Ellsbury for another year instead of obsessing on trading him  at peak value. Be a fan - not a stock trader.

     



    I am a fan. Thats why I want the team to eventually be successful. There are all kinds of fans with all different opinions about how the team should proceed, not just one kind of fan. I would rather get rid of Ellsbury if we can get value in return than watch him play this year and leave the team on Oct 1.

     

     




    he may not. It all falls on ben and management on what we're willing to pay to retain him.

     

     




    He is a Borass client. He will be difficult to retain.

     

     

     




    Lots of players are Borass clients. including JBJ. you can't NOT deal with him...

     

    we have just as good a chance (i would say a better chance) to sign him as anyone.

     




    Exactly. You know who else are Boras clients? Xander Bogaerts, Deven Marerro and Anthony Ranaudo. Not to mention JD Drew and Daisuke Matsuzaka. The fact that Ellsbury is a Boras client is no obstacle at all. Asking him to move to LF when Bradley comes up bight be though.

     



    i think it is more likely that JBJ mans RF before Jacoby moves to LF...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     

    JEF429 and I don't get along together but we both agree ( I think) that Ellsbury is our favorite player.  I want to enjoy watching Jacoby playing for the Sox this year.  He is exciting to watch, who can forget him stealing home vs. the Yankees ( sorry to bug our forum Yankee fans who are so sensitive but this is a Red Sox forum and not a neutral or Yankee forum), he can score from first base on a double, plays excellent defense, beats out hits, and is capable of being an offensive force when healthy. Some forum bozos claim that he is injury prone since a teammate ran into him or a rival secondbaseman fell onto him - which is ludicrous. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and not "injury prone". Only trolls or those who don't think  would claim that he was "injury prone.

    As a Red Sox fan and not the GM or owner, I am not obsessed with trading him at peak value ( that is what people in the stock market care about). It is true that the GM would have such concerns but I don't. I am not a day trader in the stock market - I am a fan. I want to live the coming season with the hand that I have been dealt with by the franchise. No need to second-guess the roster, GM, owner, every day. Life is too short to worry, and be miserable every day. Enjoy yourself, it is later than you think. Try to be happy. Enjoy Ellsbury for another year instead of obsessing on trading him  at peak value. Be a fan - not a stock trader.

     



    I am a fan. Thats why I want the team to eventually be successful. There are all kinds of fans with all different opinions about how the team should proceed, not just one kind of fan. I would rather get rid of Ellsbury if we can get value in return than watch him play this year and leave the team on Oct 1.

     

     




    he may not. It all falls on ben and management on what we're willing to pay to retain him.

     

     




    He is a Borass client. He will be difficult to retain.

     

     

     




    Lots of players are Borass clients. including JBJ. you can't NOT deal with him...

     

    we have just as good a chance (i would say a better chance) to sign him as anyone.

     



    Mef429,

     

    I think the Sox have as good a working relationship with Boras as anyone.  I don't think that is an issue at all.  I heard at the Winter Meetings that too many people in the Sox organization think Ellsbury is too soft (That's putting it nicely), and they clearly tried to move him this winter, but they weren't going to give him away.  They offered him in a package for Cliff Lee early on, but the Phillies think they can win now (most teams do at this point), the free agent market was saturated with centerfielders and the Phillies were able to get Ben Revere while keeping the "big three" together.  Obviously things can change during this season, but I think it would take something like a World Series MVP Award and an serious overpay for Ellsbury to come back next year. 




    Have to agree with all of this.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Ellsbury is gone not just because of his contract situation, but because we have a replacement in Bradley.

     




    you mean a replacement that can play anywhere in the OF? you do know that you can have more than 1 OF'er at a time right?

     



    Sure do, mef.  I guess I should have also mentioned the payroll room that would be freed up by having Bradley instead of Ellsbury.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to selenium-'s comment:

     

    JEF429 and I don't get along together but we both agree ( I think) that Ellsbury is our favorite player.  I want to enjoy watching Jacoby playing for the Sox this year.  He is exciting to watch, who can forget him stealing home vs. the Yankees ( sorry to bug our forum Yankee fans who are so sensitive but this is a Red Sox forum and not a neutral or Yankee forum), he can score from first base on a double, plays excellent defense, beats out hits, and is capable of being an offensive force when healthy. Some forum bozos claim that he is injury prone since a teammate ran into him or a rival secondbaseman fell onto him - which is ludicrous. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and not "injury prone". Only trolls or those who don't think  would claim that he was "injury prone.

    As a Red Sox fan and not the GM or owner, I am not obsessed with trading him at peak value ( that is what people in the stock market care about). It is true that the GM would have such concerns but I don't. I am not a day trader in the stock market - I am a fan. I want to live the coming season with the hand that I have been dealt with by the franchise. No need to second-guess the roster, GM, owner, every day. Life is too short to worry, and be miserable every day. Enjoy yourself, it is later than you think. Try to be happy. Enjoy Ellsbury for another year instead of obsessing on trading him  at peak value. Be a fan - not a stock trader.

     



    I am a fan. Thats why I want the team to eventually be successful. There are all kinds of fans with all different opinions about how the team should proceed, not just one kind of fan. I would rather get rid of Ellsbury if we can get value in return than watch him play this year and leave the team on Oct 1.

     

     




    he may not. It all falls on ben and management on what we're willing to pay to retain him.

     

     




    He is a Borass client. He will be difficult to retain.

     

     

     




    Lots of players are Borass clients. including JBJ. you can't NOT deal with him...

     

    we have just as good a chance (i would say a better chance) to sign him as anyone.

     



    Mef429,

     

    I think the Sox have as good a working relationship with Boras as anyone.  I don't think that is an issue at all.  I heard at the Winter Meetings that too many people in the Sox organization think Ellsbury is too soft (That's putting it nicely), and they clearly tried to move him this winter, but they weren't going to give him away.  They offered him in a package for Cliff Lee early on, but the Phillies think they can win now (most teams do at this point), the free agent market was saturated with centerfielders and the Phillies were able to get Ben Revere while keeping the "big three" together.  Obviously things can change during this season, but I think it would take something like a World Series MVP Award and an serious overpay for Ellsbury to come back next year. 

     




    Have to agree with all of this.

     



    don't go to the darkside Southpaw....

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    As I said over the winter, Greinke ain't nearly as good as people think he is. When people hear his name they think of the incredible 2.16 ERA in 2009, but that's really the only season of his career when he's been particularly ace-like (if we define "ace" the way Cherington's detractors do). His career ERA (to use a stat the "OMG sign them at all costs" crowd can keep up with) is 3.77 and ERA over the past three seasons is 3.83 -- numbers extremely similar to one Jon Lester, who we are often told is not a #1! Before and after 2009, Greinke's next-lowest season ERA is 3.47, whereas Lester has four seasons of 3.47 or lower over the same time period.

    It's just funny how Greinke's one great season makes him an ace forever, but if you're on the Red Sox and your most recent year was not good (see Lester), then you are garbage, regardless of your track record.

    Is Greinke good? Obviously. Better than what we have? Perhaps (though I wouldn't bet against Lester, and maybe even Buchholz, having better season in 2013). But worth $150 million? Absolutely not. And the people saying "Who cares about the money?" now would be the same ones complaining in a few years when you're stuck overpaying someone who's not worth it and can't put that money towards a better player who's available.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    As I said over the winter, Greinke ain't nearly as good as people think he is. When people hear his name they think of the incredible 2.16 ERA in 2009, but that's really the only season of his career when he's been particularly ace-like (if we define "ace" the way Cherington's detractors do). His career ERA (to use a stat the "OMG sign them at all costs" crowd can keep up with) is 3.77 and ERA over the past three seasons is 3.83 -- numbers extremely similar to one Jon Lester, who we are often told is not a #1! It's just funny how Greinke's one great season makes him an ace forever, but if you're on the Red Sox and your most recent year was not good (see Lester), then you are garbage, regardless of your track record.

    Is Greinke good? Obviously. Better than what we have? Perhaps (though I wouldn't bet against Lester, and maybe even Buchholz, having better season in 2013). But worth $150 million? Absolutely not. And the people saying "Who cares about the money?" now would be the same ones complaining in a few years when you're stuck overpaying someone who's not worth it and can't put that money towards a better player who's available.




    The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. :-)

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Ellsbury is gone not just because of his contract situation, but because we have a replacement in Bradley.

     




    you mean a replacement that can play anywhere in the OF? you do know that you can have more than 1 OF'er at a time right?

     

     



    Sure do, mef.  I guess I should have also mentioned the payroll room that would be freed up by having Bradley instead of Ellsbury.

     



    But you also lose major production by not having Ells on the roster. IDC how good JBJ looks right now, he is still a prospect whereas Ells is a known quantity. The team is much much better when he is on the field. Having JBJ at low cost should help relieve the added cost of Ells' shiny new contract so i don't consider it a big deal.. We have money to spend with all the cash coming off the books in the next few years. Might as well spend it to retain a cornetstone player..

    If you kept Ells and JBJ you could have 2 potential all-stars, silver sluggers, GG'ers and possibly even MVP cantidates. I don't see how an OF with just JBJ could possibly be better than one with Ells AND JBJ... who are you going to sign to fill the rest that is going to match or exceed the talent of a #2/JBJ OF?? Keep in mind that anyone you mention could also be added to my ideal OF to round it out..

     

Share