Cherington's achiles heel

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

    As I said over the winter, Greinke ain't nearly as good as people think he is. When people hear his name they think of the incredible 2.16 ERA in 2009, but that's really the only season of his career when he's been particularly ace-like (if we define "ace" the way Cherington's detractors do). His career ERA (to use a stat the "OMG sign them at all costs" crowd can keep up with) is 3.77 and ERA over the past three seasons is 3.83 -- numbers extremely similar to one Jon Lester, who we are often told is not a #1! Before and after 2009, Greinke's next-lowest season ERA is 3.47, whereas Lester has four seasons of 3.47 or lower over the same time period.

    It's just funny how Greinke's one great season makes him an ace forever, but if you're on the Red Sox and your most recent year was not good (see Lester), then you are garbage, regardless of your track record.

    Is Greinke good? Obviously. Better than what we have? Perhaps (though I wouldn't bet against Lester, and maybe even Buchholz, having better season in 2013). But worth $150 million? Absolutely not. And the people saying "Who cares about the money?" now would be the same ones complaining in a few years when you're stuck overpaying someone who's not worth it and can't put that money towards a better player who's available.



    +10000

    gotta be one of the best posts i've read all year..

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to carnie's comment:


    So which free agents were TOTR starters this year? Which teams were looking to move their ace in a trade?

     




    Now, now, Carnie, we can't go being sensible here.  After all, there was one sorta TOTR ... and we coulda had him for a mere $158 million s the base salary ... IF he would have liked it here.   ESPN says he is "a pitcher who has been diagnosed with social anxiety disorder" so he wuld have fit in the high octane Boston scene well ....

      urp...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to eidlog's comment:

    This team has one glaring weakness which hasn't been addressed by Ben in his 2 years as GM-top of the rotation starting pitching. For 2 years Ben has told the media that he has faith in the top of the rotation starters and we'll be fine. I don't see it. He is putting his faith in Lester and Buchholz; I strongly disagree. Therefore, I don't see this team making it to the playoffs. That is very unfortunate for me as a Red Sox fan.

     




    Just whom would you consider viable candidates to satisfy your hunger?  And what would you be willing to do to get them, in trade or FA?

    The FA market was thin.  Seattle wouldn't trade King Felix, Detroit wouldn't trade Verlander ... and so it goes. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

    In response to eidlog's comment:

     

    This team has one glaring weakness which hasn't been addressed by Ben in his 2 years as GM-top of the rotation starting pitching. For 2 years Ben has told the media that he has faith in the top of the rotation starters and we'll be fine. I don't see it. He is putting his faith in Lester and Buchholz; I strongly disagree. Therefore, I don't see this team making it to the playoffs. That is very unfortunate for me as a Red Sox fan.

     

     




    Just whom would you consider viable candidates to satisfy your hunger?  And what would you be willing to do to get them, in trade or FA?

     

    The FA market was thin.  Seattle wouldn't trade King Felix, Detroit wouldn't trade Verlander ... and so it goes. 



    Could have had Dickey.... for JBJ and XB..

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

     

    In response to eidlog's comment:

     

    This team has one glaring weakness which hasn't been addressed by Ben in his 2 years as GM-top of the rotation starting pitching. For 2 years Ben has told the media that he has faith in the top of the rotation starters and we'll be fine. I don't see it. He is putting his faith in Lester and Buchholz; I strongly disagree. Therefore, I don't see this team making it to the playoffs. That is very unfortunate for me as a Red Sox fan.

     

     




    Just whom would you consider viable candidates to satisfy your hunger?  And what would you be willing to do to get them, in trade or FA?

     

    The FA market was thin.  Seattle wouldn't trade King Felix, Detroit wouldn't trade Verlander ... and so it goes. 

     



    Could have had Dickey.... for JBJ and XB..

     



    I'm all for getting a top arm, but I'd never do this deal. I wouldn't give one of these guys for Dickey.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    I'd also want no part of trading top prospects for a guy pushing 40, knuckleballer or no. I hope no one will complain that this did not happen.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    Free agency had Greinke, whp is the slightly better version of Lester, and Sanchez,  who is a younger Demspter with better control.

     

    The best chance the Sox had to get a TOR starter thid offseason was to deal Ellsbury for Bauer and hope it happens.  But then maybe De La Rosa and Webster already accomplished that

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to notin's comment:

    Free agency had Greinke, whp is the slightly better version of Lester, and Sanchez,  who is a younger Demspter with better control.

     

    The best chance the Sox had to get a TOR starter thid offseason was to deal Ellsbury for Bauer and hope it happens.  But then maybe De La Rosa and Webster already accomplished that



    I was not for signing A Sanchez, but I'd rather have him than SV, Dempster & Drew combined (about the same overall money). We'd have 5 years of A Sanchez, almost all through his prime, instead of 3 guys combined for 6 years at 1, 2, & 3 year deals. None of these guys will be here in 2016 or 2017, and SV might be in serious decline by his last year in 2015. (I realize it might have taken much more money to pry him from the Tigers.)

    I would have traded Ellsbury for Bauer & Lester for Myers, if those deals were possible.

    We could have had this:

    DLR, Webster, Bauer, Tazawa & Owens as young starters fighting for the Lester open spot over the next few years.

    JBJ in CF and Myers in RF.

    Iggy or XB at SS (or XB at 3B and Middlebrooks at 1B).

    Sorry, I'm not buying the viewership argument as the reason we needed to sign Dempster, SV & Drew. The team above would have been very exciting to watch, even for the casual fan.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to mef429's comment:



    Could have had Dickey.... for JBJ and XB..

     




    Are you sure?  

     

    Even still, not sure I'd do it.   I've gotten the taste in my mouth to see these two at Fens ....

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to notin's comment:

    Free agency had Greinke, whp is the slightly better version of Lester, and Sanchez,  who is a younger Demspter with better control.

     

    The best chance the Sox had to get a TOR starter thid offseason was to deal Ellsbury for Bauer and hope it happens.  But then maybe De La Rosa and Webster already accomplished that




    I like what I'm seeing and hearing about these two, so I think you may be right!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to Flapjack07's comment:

     

    As I said over the winter, Greinke ain't nearly as good as people think he is. When people hear his name they think of the incredible 2.16 ERA in 2009, but that's really the only season of his career when he's been particularly ace-like (if we define "ace" the way Cherington's detractors do). His career ERA (to use a stat the "OMG sign them at all costs" crowd can keep up with) is 3.77 and ERA over the past three seasons is 3.83 -- numbers extremely similar to one Jon Lester, who we are often told is not a #1! Before and after 2009, Greinke's next-lowest season ERA is 3.47, whereas Lester has four seasons of 3.47 or lower over the same time period.

    It's just funny how Greinke's one great season makes him an ace forever, but if you're on the Red Sox and your most recent year was not good (see Lester), then you are garbage, regardless of your track record.

    Is Greinke good? Obviously. Better than what we have? Perhaps (though I wouldn't bet against Lester, and maybe even Buchholz, having better season in 2013). But worth $150 million? Absolutely not. And the people saying "Who cares about the money?" now would be the same ones complaining in a few years when you're stuck overpaying someone who's not worth it and can't put that money towards a better player who's available.

     



    +10000

     

    gotta be one of the best posts i've read all year..



    Greinke absolutely does not have the psychological fortitude and makeup to survive in the cauldron that is Boston. His problems in that regard are well documented. Staying away from him was the right thing to do.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from eidlog. Show eidlog's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

     1-2-3 first inning for Dempster on 13 pitches, 8 strikes.            

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to eidlog's comment:

     1-2-3 first inning for Dempster on 13 pitches, 8 strikes.            




    I really liked the dempster signing and I realize im probably in the minority. I just think his 14 years of experience, solid work ethic, and loose attitude and good sense of humor was a good thing. That and you dont stay in MLB (no matter what league/division) if your not good.

    I believe he will surprise some of his detractors this year.

    Am I overly optimistic? Maybe. But I like to look past the numbers (which his are very good) and also look at the intangibles.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to SinceYaz's comment:

     

    In response to eidlog's comment:

     

    This team has one glaring weakness which hasn't been addressed by Ben in his 2 years as GM-top of the rotation starting pitching. For 2 years Ben has told the media that he has faith in the top of the rotation starters and we'll be fine. I don't see it. He is putting his faith in Lester and Buchholz; I strongly disagree. Therefore, I don't see this team making it to the playoffs. That is very unfortunate for me as a Red Sox fan.

     

     




    Just whom would you consider viable candidates to satisfy your hunger?  And what would you be willing to do to get them, in trade or FA?

     

    The FA market was thin.  Seattle wouldn't trade King Felix, Detroit wouldn't trade Verlander ... and so it goes. 

     



    Could have had Dickey.... for JBJ and XB..

     

     



    I'm all for getting a top arm, but I'd never do this deal. I wouldn't give one of these guys for Dickey.

     



    I am guessing Mef meant this sarcastically.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from eidlog. Show eidlog's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

     Dempster works around an error (Jonathan Diaz) for a scoreless second. 33 pitches, 24 strikes.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from eidlog. Show eidlog's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    Dempster was pretty sharp in his first outing as a member of the Red Sox, striking out two. The only baserunner he allowed came on an error by second baseman Jonathan Diaz; he threw 24 of his 33 pitches for strikes.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Ellsbury is gone not just because of his contract situation, but because we have a replacement in Bradley.

     




    you mean a replacement that can play anywhere in the OF? you do know that you can have more than 1 OF'er at a time right?

     



    It doesn't really work that way.  When you have a good fielding CF or SS, you usually don't move them to another position.  Their value is wrapped up in their glove.  Ozzie is a HOF.  If you moved him to 3B, he'd be lucky to get a starting job.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Ellsbury is gone not just because of his contract situation, but because we have a replacement in Bradley.

     




    you mean a replacement that can play anywhere in the OF? you do know that you can have more than 1 OF'er at a time right?

     

     



    It doesn't really work that way.  When you have a good fielding CF or SS, you usually don't move them to another position.  Their value is wrapped up in their glove.  Ozzie is a HOF.  If you moved him to 3B, he'd be lucky to get a starting job.

     




    so why are we talking about moving our GG CF'er to another position to accomodate a prospect?? Ells/JBJ speed and range is wasted in fenways LF and Ells doesn't have the arm to play RF (JBJ does). So really, the only logical OF configuration with Ells and JBJ on the same team if Ells in CF and JBJ in RF..

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Ellsbury is gone not just because of his contract situation, but because we have a replacement in Bradley.

     




    you mean a replacement that can play anywhere in the OF? you do know that you can have more than 1 OF'er at a time right?

     

     



    It doesn't really work that way.  When you have a good fielding CF or SS, you usually don't move them to another position.  Their value is wrapped up in their glove.  Ozzie is a HOF.  If you moved him to 3B, he'd be lucky to get a starting job.

     

     




    so why are we talking about moving our GG CF'er to another position to accomodate a prospect?? Ells/JBJ speed and range is wasted in fenways LF and Ells doesn't have the arm to play RF (JBJ does). So really, the only logical OF configuration with Ells and JBJ on the same team if Ells in CF and JBJ in RF..

     



    I'm Ok with trading Jacoby, but since Ellsbury is gone after this year, he could be moved to RF or LF.

    LF Ells

    CF JBJ

    RF SV

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Ellsbury is gone not just because of his contract situation, but because we have a replacement in Bradley.

     




    you mean a replacement that can play anywhere in the OF? you do know that you can have more than 1 OF'er at a time right?

     

     



    It doesn't really work that way.  When you have a good fielding CF or SS, you usually don't move them to another position.  Their value is wrapped up in their glove.  Ozzie is a HOF.  If you moved him to 3B, he'd be lucky to get a starting job.

     

     




    so why are we talking about moving our GG CF'er to another position to accomodate a prospect?? Ells/JBJ speed and range is wasted in fenways LF and Ells doesn't have the arm to play RF (JBJ does). So really, the only logical OF configuration with Ells and JBJ on the same team if Ells in CF and JBJ in RF..

     



    I'm certainly not talking about it, and I'd be shocked if the RS were talking about it.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    because that was the bet and i lost it...he wasnt gone by ST...but i said he would be traded and he was in 2012...are you going to bet the sox finish over .500 in 2013?

    I'm in.  Are you in?



    Just want to make sure I didn't miss Geo's response.  Wouldn't want him to think I was afraid to back up my opinion.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    so why are we talking about moving our GG CF'er to another position to accomodate a prospect?? Ells/JBJ speed and range is wasted in fenways LF and Ells doesn't have the arm to play RF (JBJ does). So really, the only logical OF configuration with Ells and JBJ on the same team if Ells in CF and JBJ in RF.

    1) Gold Glove Awards do not mean nobody is better than you. Look at Jeter: there are 29 SSs who play better D than that GG award winner.

    2) JBJ could be a better CF'er than Jacoby. My guess is that he is. If he is, he should play there when both are playing at the same time. It's not that complicated.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Cherington's achiles heel

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    because that was the bet and i lost it...he wasnt gone by ST...but i said he would be traded and he was in 2012...are you going to bet the sox finish over .500 in 2013?

    I'm in.  Are you in?

     



    Just want to make sure I didn't miss Geo's response.  Wouldn't want him to think I was afraid to back up my opinion.

     



    Geo?

     

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