Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    With Lackey out all year and Dice-K out until at least June, our opening day pitching staff is starting to shape up, but there are still choices to be made.

    Barring injury or trade(s) these are the sure 9:

    SP1 Beckett
    SP2 Lester
    SP3 Buchholtz
    SP4 Bard
    SP5/LR Aceves
    Closer Bailey
    Set-Up Melancon
    Set-Up Jenks
    RP Albers

    That leaves 3 slots for these guys:

    Dice-K  (Returns in June or July)
    A. Miller (nonguaranteed contract)
    Tazawa  (2 options left, but probably good enough to make the 25 man)
    Alex Wilson (Will be 25 1/2 in April)
    (Longshots: Haeger, T. Pena, Duckworth, Carlson, Mathis)

    Out of options:
    Doubront
    Morales
    Atchison
    Bowden

    Choice 1: Bard as starter or reliever (closer/set-up?) and Aceves as starter or reliever (closer/set-up/long relief?)

    Choice2: Do we pickup another pitcher or two? Maybe a good 4/5 starter or maybe a couple depth signings (minor league signings... a B. Webb type)

    Choice 3: Who gets those last 3 slots? 4 pitchers are out of options, so they may be dealt or lost on waivers.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    Assuming that Aceves is not an SP, we have two openings in the BP.  I'd use Doubront, because he is lefty, can make a spot start, and is out of options, and Tazwa, because he looked pretty good last year.  If Jenks can't make it, I'd try to see if Bowden can earn a spot in ST.  He's borderline, but looked good at times.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    where's our fifteen game winner, Wake? Like Tim says, I deserve to see him set the record....
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    In Response to Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff:
    [QUOTE]With Lackey out all year and Dice-K out until at least June, our opening day pitching staff is starting to shape up, but there are still choices to be made. Barring injury or trade(s) these are the sure 9: SP1 Beckett SP2 Lester SP3 Buchholtz SP4 Bard SP5/LR Aceves Closer Bailey Set-Up Melancon Set-Up Jenks RP Albers That leaves 3 slots for these guys: Dice-K  (Returns in June or July) A. Miller (nonguaranteed contract) Tazawa  (2 options left, but probably good enough to make the 25 man) Alex Wilson (Will be 25 1/2 in April) (Longshots: Haeger, T. Pena, Duckworth, Carlson, Mathis) Out of options: Doubront Morales Atchison Bowden Choice 1: Bard as starter or reliever (closer/set-up?) and Aceves as starter or reliever (closer/set-up/long relief?) Choice2: Do we pickup another pitcher or two? Maybe a good 4/5 starter or maybe a couple depth signings (minor league signings... a B. Webb type) Choice 3: Who gets those last 3 slots? 4 pitchers are out of options, so they may be dealt or lost on waivers.  
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    moon, here's my take, not sure where it fits on the choices you offered:

    1. SP Beckett
    2. SP Lester
    3. SP Buchholz
    4. SP Bard (or so it appears)
    5. SP TBD

    6. CL Bailey
    7. RP Melancon
    8. RP Aceves
    9. RP Jenks
    10. RP Morales
    11. RP Albers
    12. TBD

    So I see one starter and one reliever to fill out the pitching staff, barring injury.

    So Miller, Tazawa and unfortunately Wakefield currently still have a chance to make the team, although I hold out hope that Ben will acquire another starter via trade or free agency that will leave the last bullpen spot for Miller or Tazawa...

    ...too bad Wake doesn't want to work out of the 'pen so it's NL bound for him...maybe Theo will bring him in when he dumps Garza, hopefully to the Sox.


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    What do you think happens with Doubront Soxdog67??

    No way they just let him walk for nothing.  I think there's a great chance he is a lefty in the pen unless he gets hurt again or is used in a trade before the season.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    I think the best 3 right now, seem to be Doubront, Tazawa and Morales, but since Taz has options, they may start him in AAA in order to be able to keep the better looking ST candidate out of Bowden & Atchison.

    Chances are someone may start on the DL (maybe Jenks) so we could keep all pitchers out of options, but I think trading 2 or 3 of these guys for one better one makes most sense. I'm not sure what we could get (if anything) for Atchison, Bowden or someone else (Albers?)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    How about trading:

    Iglesias ($2.1M)
    Lars Anderson
    Scott Atchison
    Michael Bowden


    To SF

    For:
    RHP Sergio Romo (1st arb of 3)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    In Response to Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff:
    [QUOTE]What do you think happens with Doubront Soxdog67?? No way they just let him walk for nothing.  I think there's a great chance he is a lefty in the pen unless he gets hurt again or is used in a trade before the season.
    Posted by siestafiesta[/QUOTE]

    OK, you're right, so unless the Sox include him in a trade, say for Garza, Doubront will be in the running for a 2nd lefty out of the 'pen and likely would have the edge since Miller is on a minor league deal.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    If San Fran would do that, I would do that.  Not sure they want two guys with no options, such as Bowden and Atchison.  Maybe they would do it with just Bowden and no Atchison (whose value may actually be negative, given the no options).

    Not quite sure why Romo isn't their closer, or why he pitches so few innings given the number of appearances (65 appearances, 48 IP last year) but his WHIP and K/BB ratio have been outstanding throughout his short career.  Would love to have this guy added to the bullpen, though it would become awfully righty dominant in that case.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    In Response to Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff:
    [QUOTE]With Lackey out all year and Dice-K out until at least June, our opening day pitching staff is starting to shape up, but there are still choices to be made. Barring injury or trade(s) these are the sure 9: SP1 Beckett SP2 Lester SP3 Buchholtz SP4 Bard SP5/LR Aceves Closer Bailey Set-Up Melancon Set-Up Jenks RP Albers That leaves 3 slots for these guys: Dice-K  (Returns in June or July) A. Miller (nonguaranteed contract) Tazawa  (2 options left, but probably good enough to make the 25 man) Alex Wilson (Will be 25 1/2 in April) (Longshots: Haeger, T. Pena, Duckworth, Carlson, Mathis) Out of options: Doubront Morales Atchison Bowden Choice 1: Bard as starter or reliever (closer/set-up?) and Aceves as starter or reliever (closer/set-up/long relief?) Choice2: Do we pickup another pitcher or two? Maybe a good 4/5 starter or maybe a couple depth signings (minor league signings... a B. Webb type) Choice 3: Who gets those last 3 slots? 4 pitchers are out of options, so they may be dealt or lost on waivers.  
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    moon, I still think we sign another starter, regardless.  Too many question marks with Aceves and Bard, not to mention covering any possible injuries.  We could use Miller in that role again, or in the pen I guess.  I also don't see Tazawa ever being an effective starter and feel Bowdens career with Boston will be over soon.  Morales looked pretty decent at times last season so he will probably be back unless Miller gets the role.  Atchison or Albers?  Not sure where he lands.

    One more starter could give us our best "long relief" guy back in Aceves, or possobly even Bard in the pen which could really make our pen tough.  Picking up another starter before the season protects us in all areas and that wouldn't be a bad thing at all after last season.  When Dice returns it would be great if he gives us some strong innings, but he could also be affordable traid bait.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    where's our fifteen game winner, Wake? Like Tim says, I deserve to see him set the record....

    The only record Wastefield will set will be largest departing beer gut for a 45 year old Red Sox ex-roster member.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    moon, I still think we sign another starter, regardless.  Too many question marks with Aceves and Bard, not to mention covering any possible injuries.  We could use Miller in that role again, or in the pen I guess.  I also don't see Tazawa ever being an effective starter and feel Bowdens career with Boston will be over soon.  Morales looked pretty decent at times last season so he will probably be back unless Miller gets the role.  Atchison or Albers?  Not sure where he lands.

    One more starter could give us our best "long relief" guy back in Aceves, or possobly even Bard in the pen which could really make our pen tough.  Picking up another starter before the season protects us in all areas and that wouldn't be a bad thing at all after last season.  When Dice returns it would be great if he gives us some strong innings, but he could also be affordable traid bait.

    I agree, but if we are to stay below the tax limit, it might be hard to find a good 5th starter.

    Maybe we could trade:
    Iggy ($2.1M)
    Albers ($1.1M)
    Doubront (Pre-arb: no options left)
    Atchison (4+ years of team control, but no options left)
    Lars Anderson (Pre-arb)
    Middlebrooks (Pre-arb)

    To ATL
    For:
    Jair Jurrjens (2nd or 3 arbs, made $3.25M in 2011)
    Eric O'Flaherty (2nd or 3 arbs, made $895K in 2011)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    Red Sox need to get current bloated payroll staff to perform better, and focus on developing young pitchers on farm, not trading them to shortcut for more payroll for fools gold profiles.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    In Response to Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff:
    [QUOTE]moon, I still think we sign another starter, regardless.  Too many question marks with Aceves and Bard, not to mention covering any possible injuries.  We could use Miller in that role again, or in the pen I guess.  I also don't see Tazawa ever being an effective starter and feel Bowdens career with Boston will be over soon.  Morales looked pretty decent at times last season so he will probably be back unless Miller gets the role.  Atchison or Albers?  Not sure where he lands. One more starter could give us our best "long relief" guy back in Aceves, or possobly even Bard in the pen which could really make our pen tough.  Picking up another starter before the season protects us in all areas and that wouldn't be a bad thing at all after last season.  When Dice returns it would be great if he gives us some strong innings, but he could also be affordable traid bait. I agree, but if we are to stay below the tax limit, it might be hard to find a good 5th starter. Maybe we could trade: Iggy ($2.1M) Albers ($1.1M) Doubront (Pre-arb: no options left) Atchison (4+ years of team control, but no options left) Lars Anderson (Pre-arb) Middlebrooks (Pre-arb) To ATL For: Jair Jurrjens (2nd or 3 arbs, made $3.25M in 2011) Eric O'Flaherty (2nd or 3 arbs, made $895K in 2011)
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Jurrjens would probably be a nice choice and I agree finding another starter at this point won't be easy.  I like the way things are taking shape, hopefully we can improve a bit more.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thomasmtom. Show Thomasmtom's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    Obviously a number of changes can take place before the season starts. As things stand right now Moon has it right. Since Bobby V likes to look to match his pitcher to the opponents hitter, a second lefty in the pen is almost a given.
    Morales and Doubront the most likely as things stand. Resigning Hill to a minor League deal would make good sense.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    In Response to Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff:
    [QUOTE]Obviously a number of changes can take place before the season starts. As things stand right now Moon has it right. Since Bobby V likes to look to match his pitcher to the opponents hitter, a second lefty in the pen is almost a given. Morales and Doubront the most likely as things stand. Resigning Hill to a minor League deal would make good sense.
    Posted by Thomasmtom[/QUOTE]

    I think Doubront is a more likey a trade chip but you never know.  Miller could be the other lefty in the pen, if they feel his stuff is good enough to keep around.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxforlife22. Show soxforlife22's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    As of right now i do not think a change is absolutely necessary.
    SP1 Lester
    SP2 Beckett
    SP3 Buchholz
    SP4 Bard/Aceves/Doubront
    SP5 Bard/Aceves/Doubront

    CP Bailey
    RP Melanchon
    RP Bard/Aceves/Doubront
    RP Jenks
    RP Albers
    RP Morales
    RP Tazawa

    That leaves A. Miller as starter depth and Wilson Atchison and Bowden (if the last two make it past waivers) as reliever depth. Along with this it would be almost necessary to add one guy as AAA depth.

    Although this is possible it is by no means the best option. The best option would be to go out and get the starter but if the price tag is too big there are other options

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    As of right now i do not think a change is absolutely necessary.
    SP1 Lester
    SP2 Beckett
    SP3 Buchholz
    SP4 Bard/Aceves/Doubront
    SP5 Bard/Aceves/Doubront

    CP Bailey
    RP Melanchon
    RP Bard/Aceves/Doubront
    RP Jenks
    RP Albers
    RP Morales
    RP Tazawa

    That leaves A. Miller as starter depth...
     
    We had 52 starts from our 6th starter to 10th starter. I guess you expect a lot from Miller.

    and Wilson Atchison and Bowden (if the last two make it past waivers) as reliever depth. Along with this it would be almost necessary to add one guy as AAA depth.

    Although this is possible it is by no means the best option. The best option would be to go out and get the starter but if the price tag is too big there are other options.

    At least, we need two 6th starter types (maybe 1 a minor league deal).

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    One of my concerns is that everyone expects Beckett and Lester to be sure things to start 32 games or so.  But Beckett has pitched to a pattern ever since joining the Sox.  One healthy year followed by one year with health issues that limit his starts.  2012 is the year he is due to have health issues that limit his starts.  Buchholz and Bard are both questionable to start more than 25 games.  So the top 4 guys may only cover 100 or so starts.  That means it is realistic to expect the Sox might need an additional 62 starts out of their #5, #6 and #7 starters.  Assuming Doubront and Aceves combine for half, they still need one or two more starters to provide another 30-32 starts.  Wakefield could take some, but I am almost certain that Ben will get one more starter...one who can be counted on to start 25-30 games and pitch to an ERA better than 4.50.  Whether that is a FA signing or a trade I do not know.  But there is another starter coming!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    One of my concerns is that everyone expects Beckett and Lester to be sure things to start 32 games or so. 

    I can't remember the last time our top 3 starters had 28+ games started, maybe even 25+. There's a good chance one of the "top 3" will be hurt or have an off year in 2012. We are putting a lot of pressure on them to all do well, and then on top of that, we have basically nothing beyond starter #5.

    Everyone screaming for a big RF'er or power RH'd bat are missing the true issue or weakness of this team. It is pitching!

    But Beckett has pitched to a pattern ever since joining the Sox.  One healthy year followed by one year with health issues that limit his starts. 

    Actually, he pitched Ok his first year (2006) despite a 5.01 ERA, then has had 4 our of 5 good years with 2010's injury-filled year being his worst:

    2006:  16-11  5.01  1.295
    2007:  20-7    3.27  1.141 (awesome playoffs)
    2008:  12-10   4.03  1.187 (Top 7 WHIP in AL)
    2009:  17-6    3.86  1.192
    2010:    6-6    5.78  1.535
    2011:   13-7   2.89   1.026 

    2012 is the year he is due to have health issues that limit his starts. 

    I have a sneaky suspicion, he's going to come to camp in his best shape ever.

    Buchholz and Bard are both questionable to start more than 25 games. 

    Buch is supposedly 100%, but with back issues, one never knows. Bard may start 30 games, but I'm not counting on more than 160 IP tops.

    So the top 4 guys may only cover 100 or so starts.  That means it is realistic to expect the Sox might need an additional 62 starts out of their #5, #6 and #7 starters.  Assuming Doubront and Aceves combine for half, they still need one or two more starters to provide another 30-32 starts.  Wakefield could take some, but I am almost certain that Ben will get one more starter...

    Wake's not on the team (yet).

    one who can be counted on to start 25-30 games and pitch to an ERA better than 4.50.  Whether that is a FA signing or a trade I do not know.  But there is another starter coming!

    I hope so. Even a starter who can give us 220 IP and 4.80 ERA would be extremely helpful.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    I know Wake is not on the roster yet.  But if the money is tight, he is still one of the best cheap options to fit into the role of long relief, occasional starter.  He's still out there, and that bridge has not been burned or torn down just yet, though many here would like to think it has been, or certainly should be.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    How about bringing back Javier Lopez?  He has been awesome for past three years.  combined 147 games appeared (50, 27, 70G respectively), 110.2 IP, 2.79/1.42/2.72 ERA, LHB AVG is .163) Very successful three seasons.  He could LHB specialist and would cost less than Romo. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    lot's of assumptions going into 2012:
    1) That Beckett will be able to start 30+ games
    2) That Lester can increase the IP back to over 200
    3) That Buch is 100% healthy to start the season
    4) That Bard/Aceves can succeed in the starter role
    5) That Bailey can appear in 60+ games
    6) That Melancon and Miller can improve on the control
    7) That Jenks can reinvent himself (frankly, I think this fat slob needs to go elsewhere.

    For my money, Bard and Aceves need to remain in the BP. They along with Morales are really the most solid relievers we have.
    We need to go out and get either Oswalt, Saunders or Kuroda to fill the number 4 slot. Number 5 should go to Wake, Dubront, and maybe Miller if he is up to the task.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    Wastefield showed what he could do on the roster, losing virtually every game over last few months of the season and putting up an ERA over 5. He can't pitch in relief with runners on, unless you are out of your mind.

    Just the way to get a clean start from half a billion 3 year no playoff wins debacle and 2011 record collapse while Wastefield chased record greatness!

    If Cherry bids on a 45 year old beer gut player with no MLB contract market, he needs to start looking for a VP job before he nears the end of his contract.

    Very important for 2011 team that Wastefield is not squatting on the roster. Those pitiful performing 40 year old veterans without contracts do not need to be added back on roster.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Choices with the Sox Pitching Staff

    Here's my prediction for April ...

    1. SP Beckett
    2. SP Lester
    3. SP Buchholz
    4. SP Bard 
    5. SP Aceves

    6. CL Bailey
    7. RP Melancon
    8. RP Jenks
    9. RP Tazawa (#7 starter)
    10. RP Morales
    11. RP Albers
    12. RP Doubront (#6 starter)

    Miller goes to Pawtucket as depth #8 starter.  FWIW, I think Taz will be impressive this spring and I have down as #7 starter but only because I think he'll be valuable in the pen.  If Ace or Bard end up back in the pen I think there's a good chance Taz gets the rotation.  I am basing this on absolutely nothing other than a hunch of course.

     
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