CIRIACO < DREW?

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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    In response to COMMIE-CONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    love the upgrade of the bullpen.. best and cheapest thing to do to guarantee being competitve. but y not start pedro at short with a jambroni as a utility or boegarts in the wings... drew seems too much of a luxury plus he bbrings the curse of the drew family!

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh no, not the Dreaded Curse of the Drew Family!  What the f are you talking about?  You could argue that JD didn't live up to that bloated contract (as many have, ad nauseam), and you might call him a passionless wuss, but I would think that timely grand slam negates any implications of a "curse".   If you want "curse", you would have to invoke Buckner, Calvin Schiraldi, or a double-pumping Pesky, although I believe all these demons were exorcised as of 2004.  

     

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    If you are making a case that you prefer Ciriaco to Drew, the arrow in your thread title is facing the wrong way.  

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you are making a case that you prefer Ciriaco to Drew, the arrow in your thread title is facing the wrong way.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Just for fun, we should add in some of these symbols:

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    Pedro Ciriaco is not a MLB starting quality player and never will be.  Pushing 28, he may develop into a decent backup player, but that's not a given.  Let's just look at offense:

    Career MLB (Nick Punto):  .247/.325/.325/.649 (3,175 PAs)

    Career MiLB (Pedro Ciriaco):  .272/.299/.357/.656 (3,502 PAs)

     

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedro Ciriaco is not a MLB starting quality player and never will be.  Pushing 28, he may develop into a decent backup player, but that's not a given.  Let's just look at offense:

    Career MLB (Nick Punto):  .247/.325/.325/.649 (3,175 PAs)

    Career MiLB (Pedro Ciriaco):  .272/.299/.357/.656 (3,502 PAs)

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Look at Ciriaco's .299 career minor league OBP in over 1,000 PAs. That is likelye where his ML career line will come to rest.

    I love his versatility and defense, but for those who are looking at his tiny ML offensive sample size to decide he is better than Drew or Iggy are being a bit optimistic. If you base your position on defense, then you have some strong points, but making arguments based on such a small sample is just not realistic.

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedro Ciriaco is not a MLB starting quality player and never will be.  Pushing 28, he may develop into a decent backup player, but that's not a given.  Let's just look at offense:

    Career MLB (Nick Punto):  .247/.325/.325/.649 (3,175 PAs)

    Career MiLB (Pedro Ciriaco):  .272/.299/.357/.656 (3,502 PAs)

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Look at Ciriaco's .299 career minor league OBP in over 1,000 PAs. That is likelye where his ML career line will come to rest.

    I love his versatility and defense, but for those who are looking at his tiny ML offensive sample size to decide he is better than Drew or Iggy are being a bit optimistic. If you base your position on defense, then you have some strong points, but making arguments based on such a small sample is just not realistic.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ciriaco proved last year that he belongs in the big leagues and his value is largely due to his ability to play multiple positions and pinch run late in games. Think Pokey Reese with a little better stick. There's a reason he' 28 and still trying to stick with a big league club....

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    5/1 K/W for his entire MiL career, 6/1 in the pros.  If y'all can find me one example of a successful pro with that ratio, let me know.

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    Ciriaco is an excelent utility player who will get in a lot of games for the Sox.  That is his role.

    Iggy is the SS that is being delayed by the Drew signing.

     

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    If Ciriaco had been given the chance to start in 2013, is it fair to assume he would have given us average to above ave. defense which at least is equals to Drews?

    Here's my guess on say 140 games of either as a regular...

    Ciriaco:  260ave.  310 OBP 10hr    35 SB 

    Drew:    250ave.  330 OBP 12hr.     8 SB  

    Fair guess?  If so, then wouldn't Ciriaco seem to be the better choice to start? -  Of course, its not going to happen now.

    I like Beantowne's post. I do question his assertion, however, that being (all of) 28, there is a reason that he has  struggled to make a big league team. While true, think of all the "late bloomers" who flew under the radar. Top of my head - Wade Boggs, Tim Wakefield, etc.. (prob.better examples,but you get the point)...Maybe the kid has finally found himself??  

     

     

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    In response to Strangeglove's comment:

    Here's my guess on say 140 games of either as a regular...Ciriaco:  260ave.  310 OBP 10hr    35 SB / Drew:    250ave.  330 OBP 12hr.     8 SB


    Here are the 2013 projections from the Bill James Handbook:

    PC 322 PA, .268 BA, .286 OBP, .354 SLG, 3 HR, 16 SB

    SD 482 PA, .252 BA, .325 OBP, .411 SLG, 11 HR, 3 SB

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    In response to Strangeglove's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If Ciriaco had been given the chance to start in 2013, is it fair to assume he would have given us average to above ave. defense which at least is equals to Drews?

    Here's my guess on say 140 games of either as a regular...

    Ciriaco:  260ave.  310 OBP 10hr    35 SB 

    Drew:    250ave.  330 OBP 12hr.     8 SB  

    Fair guess?  If so, then wouldn't Ciriaco seem to be the better choice to start? -  Of course, its not going to happen now.

    I like Beantowne's post. I do question his assertion, however, that being (all of) 28, there is a reason that he has  struggled to make a big league team. While true, think of all the "late bloomers" who flew under the radar. Top of my head - Wade Boggs, Tim Wakefield, etc.. (prob.better examples,but you get the point)...Maybe the kid has finally found himself??  

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    As far as I can see, the best predictor of major league success is minor league K/W, adjusted for age/level.  After his first minor league year, Boggs never had an OBP < .395.  PC is at .299 in the minors.

    There are late bloomers, but there aren't a lot of them.  And most have far better K/W.

    The biggest issue for me is that he was a donut his last 34 games.  .518 OPS, 22/5 K/W, 12 runs and 3 RBIs.  I'm seeing very little to suggest he can hit at all.

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    In response to COMMIE-CONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    love the upgrade of the bullpen.. best and cheapest thing to do to guarantee being competitve. but y not start pedro at short with a jambroni as a utility or boegarts in the wings... drew seems too much of a luxury plus he bbrings the curse of the drew family!

    [/QUOTE]

    are you being serious? i mean, i love ciriaco.. but there's no way he is better than Drew. not a lick.

    compared to iggy you could have made the case he should be our starting SS BUT they are similar enough that iggy would have gotten the starting nod over PC because of his youth, monetary investment and developmental aspects.

    like i said, i really like Ciriaco but he is out UIF, nothing more, nothing less.

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you are making a case that you prefer Ciriaco to Drew, the arrow in your thread title is facing the wrong way.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Actually, the ? closing the OP Headline takes care of that.

    I'm actually a big Ciriaco backer, & think Drew was a ridiculous signing for 9.5 million.  Ciriaco definitely has a better bat with more pop, & plays D as well as Drew. 

     

    I will keep an open mind, & hope Drew can get back to some semblance of a decent hitter.  I just don't get this signing.

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    In response to COMMIE-CONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you are making a case that you prefer Ciriaco to Drew, the arrow in your thread title is facing the wrong way.  

    [/QUOTE]


    CONTRARIAN always means what he says COMRADE and often tries to be witty in  saying it... easy to say ciriaco>drew..  and leave it at that.. by doing it the other way esp with the question mark, it gives a better pretense of a neutral hypothesis for more objective debate!

    [/QUOTE]

    But your not witty.

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    In response to Strangeglove's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If Ciriaco had been given the chance to start in 2013, is it fair to assume he would have given us average to above ave. defense which at least is equals to Drews?

    Here's my guess on say 140 games of either as a regular...

    Ciriaco:  260ave.  310 OBP 10hr    35 SB 

    Drew:    250ave.  330 OBP 12hr.     8 SB  

    Fair guess?  If so, then wouldn't Ciriaco seem to be the better choice to start? -  Of course, its not going to happen now.

    I like Beantowne's post. I do question his assertion, however, that being (all of) 28, there is a reason that he has  struggled to make a big league team. While true, think of all the "late bloomers" who flew under the radar. Top of my head - Wade Boggs, Tim Wakefield, etc.. (prob.better examples,but you get the point)...Maybe the kid has finally found himself??  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Wade Boggs became a regular at 24, hitting .349.  Tim Wakefield was a knuckleball pitcher.  Neither is a sound analogy to the aged Ciriaco, nor is assuming a career MiLB OBP of .299 is going to improve in the major leagues.

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?


    CONTRARIAN always means what he says COMRADE and often tries to be witty in  saying it... easy to say ciriaco>drew..  and leave it at that.. by doing it the other way esp with the question mark, it gives a better pretense of a neutral hypothesis for more objective debate!

    [/QUOTE]

    Ciriaco < Drew? or Ciriaco> Drew? Oh yeah, the first statement is much more clever and is sure to stir up ten times as much intellectual debate than the second statement. This is obvious.

    There is reason why the threads started by Communist Contrarian draw flies to them like fresh cow dung and it isn't the fact that he has presented a neutral hypothesis for objective debate. Quite the contrary. It is the same reason that ADG threads draw a crowd also.

    [/QUOTE]


    What happened to the new, better behaved Pike?  One week and you're back to all the same old nonsense that makes everyone hate you.

     
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    Re: CIRIACO < DREW?

    IF Drew gets back to this level after his injury, I'll be pretty happy.

    BIG IF THOUGH????

     

    Drew, 29, is one of three players to have three seasons with at least 20 doubles, 10 triples and 10 home runs since 2008, along with current Red Sox Shane Victorino and Toronto’s Jose Reyes. He ranks fourth among all Major League shortstops over the last five seasons with a .441 slugging percentage and fifth with a .770 OPS (min. 1,500 plate appearances).

    He is a .265 career hitter (814-for-3,069) with 181 doubles, 52 triples, 77 home runs, 349 RBI, 414 runs, 293 walks, and 34 stolen bases. The left-handed hitter has finished with the second-most triples in the National League on three occasions and his 41 triples since 2008 rank sixth in the majors. His 52 career triples are an Arizona franchise record.

     

    I STILL LIKE CIRIACO....

     
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