Clay vs Jacoby

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    Re: Clay vs Jacoby

    I don't know of anyone giving grief on Clay about this, why would anyone want to?
     
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    Re: Clay vs Jacoby

    In Response to Re: Clay vs Jacoby:
    In Response to Re: Clay vs Jacoby : My comment was based on  1) Pedroia taking ground balls with his foot in a cast 2) Cameron playing through a Sports Hernia  3) Hermida playing with the exact same injury as Ellsbury 4) Comments made by Ellsbury to the media about the Sox medical staff - e.g. airing dirty laundry. 5) Ellsbury returning from the injury and setting his own time-table of return through the media, despite raking at Pawtucket, then shutting himself down (again through the media) when struggled in his first few major-league games. 6) Comments made as recently as February about not necessarily being 100%. Ellsbury is not going to sign a contract extension with the Sox.  It would have been done by now if he were thinking of offering any sort of home-town discount.  And the single biggest reason we have Crawford on the roster right now is because of the way Ellsbury held the Sox hostage in 2010.  My guess is he's gone this winter, and while he's a terrific player, I'm not going to shed any tears when he's gone. Final thought - of the dozens of Sox players on the DL in 2010, only Ellsbury's injury resulted in this soap opera.
    Posted by slomag

     If you are suggesting that it was smart for Pedroia to be taking ground balls with his foot in a cast and in some odd way that benefitted the team we have a disagreement. And what exactly did Cameron and Hermida contribute to the team by playing with injuries? The facts suggest that the Sox medical staff screwed up---not an entirely unknown phenomenon; the Boston media and Youk trashed him for not rehabbing in the dugout; and many fans piled on. Somehow out of all the furor over Ellsbury's injury and rehab you come up with the assertion "that Ellsbury held the Sox hostage in 2010". That's another round about way of holding him accountable for Crawford's poor showing this year. I guess that's too much of a stretch for me. And while you concede that "he's a terrific player", the statement that you're "not going to shed any tears when he's gone" makes little sense to me. After you and the media trash him enough, then you peer into your crystal ball and see that he'll never resign with the Sox. Certainly I hope that isn't the case but if it works out that way I would hold the Boston media, the Sox medical staff and the many empty headed fans who inflamed the situation for running him out of town. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Clay vs Jacoby

    In Response to Re: Clay vs Jacoby:
    In Response to Re: Clay vs Jacoby :  If you are suggesting that it was smart for Pedroia to be taking ground balls with his foot in a cast and in some odd way that benefitted the team we have a disagreement. And what exactly did Cameron and Hermida contribute to the team by playing with injuries? The facts suggest that the Sox medical staff screwed up---not an entirely unknown phenomenon; the Boston media and Youk trashed him for not rehabbing in the dugout; and many fans piled on. Somehow out of all the furor over Ellsbury's injury and rehab you come up with the assertion "that Ellsbury held the Sox hostage in 2010". That's another round about way of holding him accountable for Crawford's poor showing this year. I guess that's too much of a stretch for me. And while you concede that "he's a terrific player", the statement that you're "not going to shed any tears when he's gone" makes little sense to me. After you and the media trash him enough, then you peer into your crystal ball and see that he'll never resign with the Sox. Certainly I hope that isn't the case but if it works out that way I would hold the Boston media, the Sox medical staff and the many empty headed fans who inflamed the situation for running him out of town. 
    Posted by trouts

    I'm a Red Sox fan, and I want every player to succeed.  But there are some who play the game in such a way that makes me proud to be a Red Sox fan.  Pedroia is one of those of those guys, and while I'm not suggesting he was smart to come back when he did, I'm proud of him for trying, because it was either risk a set-back or try to salvage the season, and not doing the latter was unacceptable to him.  Pedroia is the type of player I would shed a tear to lose.  Lackey is the opposite of that guy - he's the kind of player I'm ashamed to cheer, not because of his performance but because of his demeanor, particularly when it comes to his mound tantrums.  I don't put Ellsbury in league with Lackey, but if that's the spectrum, he's closer to Lackey than he is Pedroia. 

    My point about Crawford was that the Sox needed a player with Ellsbury's skill set and didn't feel comfortable counting on him.  I don't blame Ellsbury for Crawford's poor play - I give some credit to Crawford for Ellsbury's great play.  I don't know if we get the same season from Ellsbury without another speedy left-handed outfielder reminding him that he is not irreplaceable.

     
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    Re: Clay vs Jacoby

     To slomag: I, too, love the way Pedroia plays the game and I really don't see that Ellsbury plays it any differently. He has always played hard and, aside from last year when he was run over by Beltre, he has always played with all the various nicks and dings that go with playing the game all-out. I don't give Crawford any credit for Ellsbury's fine season. If you look at Ellsbury's career stats, 2010 aside, he has been trending upward every year. Ellsbury is having the best year of his career and you continue to demean him, this time, by comparing him to Lackey. I don't get it. The guy hustles on the base paths and in the field; has improved his OBP and power numbers; is now considered one of the best lead-off hitters in the game and still he gets dissed. For all of that, he is paid small money compared to his peers and posters wail, even before negotiations start, that he won't take a hometown discount. After getting savaged by the Boston press and some posters on this site, why the heck would he be happy to do that?
     
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    Re: Clay vs Jacoby

    My comment was based on 

    1) Pedroia taking ground balls with his foot in a cast
    Which caused him to lose even more time on the DL.

    2) Cameron playing through a Sports Hernia 
    Which caused him not to play well and they could have had some one healthy playing.
    3) Hermida playing with the exact same injury as Ellsbury
    Yes and look what has happened to him.
    4) Comments made by Ellsbury to the media about the Sox medical staff - e.g. airing dirty laundry.
    That is something MANY including media and fans have been saying as well
    5) Ellsbury returning from the injury and setting his own time-table of return through the media, despite raking at Pawtucket, then shutting himself down (again through the media) when struggled in his first few major-league games.
    Sir he found out he had reinjured the ribs on a dive coming in for a fly ball
    6) Comments made as recently as February about not necessarily being 100%.
    Maybe he was not 100% what is wrong with that? You'd rather some one say I'm 100% and they are not?

    Ellsbury is not going to sign a contract extension with the Sox.  It would have been done by now if he were thinking of offering any sort of home-town discount.  
    As any player should he should look out for himself we all do and I don't see anyone one working at the Globe giving the Globe a home town discount.

    And the single biggest reason we have Crawford on the roster right now is because of the way Ellsbury held the Sox hostage in 2010. 
    You have no idea if that is true or not. We got one of the top two outfielders available this past year. and IMHO all people putting him down now will be eating their words between now and the end of the year,

     My guess is he's gone this winter, and while he's a terrific player, I'm not going to shed any tears when he's gone.
    If he is we will have lost one of the best 3 CF the RS have had in the 50 years I have watched them.

    Final thought - of the dozens of Sox players on the DL in 2010, only Ellsbury's injury resulted in this soap opera.
    Only because the media made it so. If you remember the Lowell injury was not far behind. He had the thumb injury that stopped a trade. Which he said was 100% when the season started and it was not. He then played despite having the hip issue all year. Where the RS had to keep him or pay him for not playing at all.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Clay vs Jacoby

    The Ellsbury thing was a wonderful distraction from the realities of a tough luck year as far as injuries went.

    The media dialed it up when Ellsbury challenged the RS medical staff. The media has always known where their bread is buttered. They attacked Curt Flood for chalenging the reserve clause, which in hindsight was an aburd and unethical contractual clause.

    The Boston Red Sox medical team IMO isn't any better or worse than any other team's staff. Their job is to keep guys on the field, get them back as soon as possible and balance medical decisions with an eye on the business and sporting interests of their employer. There are going to be times that those interest are not in line with the player's best interests. It happens in sports and not just Boston.

    Now add to this drama that Ellsbury is represented by the owner's hated Satan, Scott Boras. Knowing where their bread is buttered again, the mdia also sees him as satan. Considering Boras' typical tactic in salary negotiation results in maximum eranings for his client but usually ends with his client changing teams, fans have embraced this same view.

    It was a perfect storm. The OP scratched at an old scab but it makes a point. Players are cast in a certain light by the media and in the end we tend to see things through that prism often.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Clay vs Jacoby

    In Response to Re: Clay vs Jacoby:
    My comment was based on  1) Pedroia taking ground balls with his foot in a cast Which caused him to lose even more time on the DL. 2) Cameron playing through a Sports Hernia  Which caused him not to play well and they could have had some one healthy playing. 3) Hermida playing with the exact same injury as Ellsbury Yes and look what has happened to him. 4) Comments made by Ellsbury to the media about the Sox medical staff - e.g. airing dirty laundry. That is something MANY including media and fans have been saying as well 5) Ellsbury returning from the injury and setting his own time-table of return through the media, despite raking at Pawtucket, then shutting himself down (again through the media) when struggled in his first few major-league games. Sir he found out he had reinjured the ribs on a dive coming in for a fly ball 6) Comments made as recently as February about not necessarily being 100%. Maybe he was not 100% what is wrong with that? You'd rather some one say I'm 100% and they are not? Ellsbury is not going to sign a contract extension with the Sox.  It would have been done by now if he were thinking of offering any sort of home-town discount.   As any player should he should look out for himself we all do and I don't see anyone one working at the Globe giving the Globe a home town discount . And the single biggest reason we have Crawford on the roster right now is because of the way Ellsbury held the Sox hostage in 2010.  You have no idea if that is true or not. We got one of the top two outfielders available this past year. and IMHO all people putting him down now will be eating their words between now and the end of the year,  My guess is he's gone this winter, and while he's a terrific player, I'm not going to shed any tears when he's gone. If he is we will have lost one of the best 3 CF the RS have had in the 50 years I have watched them. Final thought - of the dozens of Sox players on the DL in 2010, only Ellsbury's injury resulted in this soap opera. Only because the media made it so. If you remember the Lowell injury was not far behind. He had the thumb injury that stopped a trade. Which he said was 100% when the season started and it was not. He then played despite having the hip issue all year. Where the RS had to keep him or pay him for not playing at all.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida

     Point for point well constructed. In fact, a better response than I authored.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Clay vs Jacoby

    In Response to Re: Clay vs Jacoby:
    The Ellsbury thing was a wonderful distraction from the realities of a tough luck year as far as injuries went. The media dialed it up when Ellsbury challenged the RS medical staff. The media has always known where their bread is buttered. They attacked Curt Flood for chalenging the reserve clause, which in hindsight was an aburd and unethical contractual clause. The Boston Red Sox medical team IMO isn't any better or worse than any other team's staff. Their job is to keep guys on the field, get them back as soon as possible and balance medical decisions with an eye on the business and sporting interests of their employer. There are going to be times that those interest are not in line with the player's best interests. It happens in sports and not just Boston. Now add to this drama that Ellsbury is represented by the owner's hated Satan, Scott Boras. Knowing where their bread is buttered again, the mdia also sees him as satan. Considering Boras' typical tactic in salary negotiation results in maximum eranings for his client but usually ends with his client changing teams, fans have embraced this same view. It was a perfect storm. The OP scratched at an old scab but it makes a point. Players are cast in a certain light by the media and in the end we tend to see things through that prism often.
    Posted by fivekatz

     Nice analysis.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from canetime. Show canetime's posts

    Re: Clay vs Jacoby

    In Response to Re: Clay vs Jacoby:
    In Response to Re: Clay vs Jacoby : My comment was based on  1) Pedroia taking ground balls with his foot in a cast 2) Cameron playing through a Sports Hernia  3) Hermida playing with the exact same injury as Ellsbury 4) Comments made by Ellsbury to the media about the Sox medical staff - e.g. airing dirty laundry. 5) Ellsbury returning from the injury and setting his own time-table of return through the media, despite raking at Pawtucket, then shutting himself down (again through the media) when struggled in his first few major-league games. 6) Comments made as recently as February about not necessarily being 100%. Ellsbury is not going to sign a contract extension with the Sox.  It would have been done by now if he were thinking of offering any sort of home-town discount.  And the single biggest reason we have Crawford on the roster right now is because of the way Ellsbury held the Sox hostage in 2010.  My guess is he's gone this winter, and while he's a terrific player, I'm not going to shed any tears when he's gone. Final thought - of the dozens of Sox players on the DL in 2010, only Ellsbury's injury resulted in this soap opera.
    Posted by slomag

    BROKEN RIBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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