Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to traven's comment:

    If you read this board it is filled with trades not made by the Sox.  Check out 143 posts on the Royals/Rays trade.




    The Royals/Rays trade was huge.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to traven's comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    Wow. Did "Traven" actually start a thread just to let us know that a player was traded by a team not named the Sox to another team not named the Sox and we should be upset about it because we didn't get him? I can just imagine this board filled with threads like this of every trade we weren't involved in.



    Check out the Youk signing by Yanks.



    Youk played for the Sox last season in case you weren't aware. And he went to the Yankees who are our biggest rival.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to traven's comment:

    If you read this board it is filled with trades not made by the Sox.  Check out 177 posts on the Royals/Rays trade.




    Yeah, that was mine...Nothing wrong with informing fans of the Sox, and baseball in general, what moves are being made and discussing them.

     




    This was a thread to say "we could have gotten him, but didn't". I don't see the point of that. There are waay too many posters here like "Traven" trying to get Sox fans to feel bad about trades they didn't make.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I think Choos was too young (thirty)  for Cherry's plan.... u have to be over 31 to qualify for an offer from the Sox.



    True EnchiladaT.  I also heard a rumor that Choo and Boras turned down Cherington's 3-year, $39 million extension.   LOL

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to traven's comment:

    If you read this board it is filled with trades not made by the Sox.  Check out 177 posts on the Royals/Rays trade.




    Yeah, that was mine...Nothing wrong with informing fans of the Sox, and baseball in general, what moves are being made and discussing them.

     




    This was a thread to say "we could have gotten him, but didn't". I don't see the point of that. There are waay too many posters here like "Traven" trying to get Sox fans to feel bad about trades they didn't make.



    Only problem with that thinking is...this TEAM only won 69 games last year...something needs to change. The inactivity can also be frustrating...especially on pitching front.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

     

    So Choo still stays in the state of Ohio.  I've been to Ohio once.  Not much to do over there.  But the air is very clean and fresh.  LOL

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    ..this TEAM only won 69 games last year...something needs to change. The inactivity can also be frustrating...especially on pitching front.

    This team has coninually relied on the hope that all our starters will have career average or better seasons at the same time. It just never seems to happen that way with this team. Injuries, pitchers like Beckett with their odd/even year proclivities, and changing pitching coaches hasn't helped.

    Here are the pitchers we have signed or traded for and started over the past few years:

    2012: 

    Cook- 18

    Morales-9 (traded for in 2011)

    Stewart-2

     

    2011: 

    A Miller 12

    E Bedard 8

     

    2010:

    Lackey  33

     

    2009:

    Penny  24

    Smoltz  8

    Byrd  6 (was here the first time in 2008)

     

    2008:

    Colon  7

    Byrd  8

     

    2007:

    Dice-K 32

    Schilling 24 (was here in 2006)

    Tavarez  23 (was here in 2005)

     

    2006:

    Beckett

    Clement

    Snyder

    D Wells

    DiNardo

    J Johnson

    Jarvis

     

    Since Dice-K in 2007, only Lackey was a serious attempt to upgrade our rotation from outside the system.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

    So Choo still stays in the state of Ohio.  I've been to Ohio once.  Not much to do over there.  But the air is very clean and fresh.  LOL


    Shin-Soo Choo returns to the Goodyear AZ Spring Training facility that the Cincinnati Reds share with the Cleveland Indians.

    http://www.goodyearaz.gov/index.aspx?NID=1777

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    ..this TEAM only won 69 games last year...something needs to change. The inactivity can also be frustrating...especially on pitching front.

    This team has coninually relied on the hope that all our starters will have career average or better seasons at the same time. It just never seems to happen that way with this team. Injuries, pitchers like Beckett with their odd/even year proclivities, and changing pitching coaches hasn't helped.

    Here are the pitchers we have signed or traded for and started over the past few years:

    2012: 

    Cook- 18

    Morales-9 (traded for in 2011)

    Stewart-2

     

    2011: 

    A Miller 12

    E Bedard 8

     

    2010:

    Lackey  33

     

    2009:

    Penny  24

    Smoltz  8

    Byrd  6 (was here the first time in 2008)

     

    2008:

    Colon  7

    Byrd  8

     

    2007:

    Dice-K 32

    Schilling 24 (was here in 2006)

    Tavarez  23 (was here in 2005)

     

    2006:

    Clement

    Snyder

    D Wells

    DiNardo

    J Johnson

    Jarvis

     

    Since Dice-K in 2007, only Lackey was a serious attempt to upgrade our rotation from outside the system.

     



    exactly........there is no doubt about it....current crop of FA are terrible....but we have had oppurtunities...I'm not jumping off the bandwagon but for Kimsaysthis not to think we can't be frustrated with the lack of activity is wrong. I"m not saying we have to resort to venom as some do, but I for one am sick of the lack of real attempts at improving the pitching ...this year and in prior years. A team that contends like the Red Sox should always be trying to negotiate to pick up Aces...I'm not saying that it will succeed all the time but when someone like a CC or a whomever is available, we should not be looking at the likes of Penny and Smoltz....

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to Iceman4's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    ..this TEAM only won 69 games last year...something needs to change. The inactivity can also be frustrating...especially on pitching front.

    This team has coninually relied on the hope that all our starters will have career average or better seasons at the same time. It just never seems to happen that way with this team. Injuries, pitchers like Beckett with their odd/even year proclivities, and changing pitching coaches hasn't helped.

    Here are the pitchers we have signed or traded for and started over the past few years:

    2012: 

    Cook- 18

    Morales-9 (traded for in 2011)

    Stewart-2

     

    2011: 

    A Miller 12

    E Bedard 8

     

    2010:

    Lackey  33

     

    2009:

    Penny  24

    Smoltz  8

    Byrd  6 (was here the first time in 2008)

     

    2008:

    Colon  7

    Byrd  8

     

    2007:

    Dice-K 32

    Schilling 24 (was here in 2006)

    Tavarez  23 (was here in 2005)

     

    2006:

    Beckett

    Clement

    Snyder

    D Wells

    DiNardo

    J Johnson

    Jarvis

     

    Since Dice-K in 2007, only Lackey was a serious attempt to upgrade our rotation from outside the system.

     



    exactly........there is no doubt about it....current crop of FA are terrible....but we have had oppurtunities...I'm not jumping off the bandwagon but for Kimsaysthis not to think we can't be frustrated with the lack of activity is wrong. I"m not saying we have to resort to venom as some do, but I for one am sick of the lack of real attempts at improving the pitching ...this year and in prior years. A team that contends like the Red Sox should always be trying to negotiate to pick up Aces...I'm not saying that it will succeed all the time but when someone like a CC or a whomever is available, we should not be looking at the likes of Penny and Smoltz....



    The Lackey attemot was legitimate, but just didn't work out right. Perhaps, that signing scared top management, but the fact remains: since the Dice-K signing in 2007, we have gone 5 seasons with just one bold move (Lackey). Our pitching has got worse and worse, but nothing has changed.

    Starter ERA/WHIP:

    2007: 4.21/1.300

    2008: 4.02/1.313

    2009: 4.63/1.412

    2010: 4.17/1.348

    2011: 4.49/1.367

    2012  5.19/1.417

    (Except for the 2009 blip, our WHIP has gotten worse every year since 2007, and our ERA had gotten a half a run worse each of the last 2 years.)

     

    Trying to change the rotation by obtaining better #5 type starters than what we had the year before will never work out, and we've actually failed at even improving our #5 often than not as well.

     

    It's not "all about pitching", but you can't finish in last place, have a starter ERA over 5.00, do nothing about fixing the rotation other than have Lackey return and expect to be highly competitive the next year. It's a fantasy.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    Great job Cleveland to obtain Bauer.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to stan17's comment:

    Great job Cleveland to obtain Bauer.



    I agree, and for those who think we can't get anything of value for Ellsbury, think again.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    forget it Moon........looks like they want to bring in the "ACE" Dempster this year....better move that ERA WHIP list up a little.............isn't this what they listen to Bill James for?..why does he ignore that stat line?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to traven's comment:

    If you read this board it is filled with trades not made by the Sox.  Check out 177 posts on the Royals/Rays trade.




    Yeah, that was mine...Nothing wrong with informing fans of the Sox, and baseball in general, what moves are being made and discussing them.

     




    This was a thread to say "we could have gotten him, but didn't". I don't see the point of that. There are waay too many posters here like "Traven" trying to get Sox fans to feel bad about trades they didn't make.



    Why don't you tell us about all the great trades that the Sox have made that fans should feel really good about?  I wonder how long that list will be?

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to louisthelipp's comment:

    Kim has it right. Traven is a closet Yankee fan. It should obvious by now to anyone who reads or posts here daily. He tries his best to display fake concern about the Red Sox. What a shame that he prefers to come to a rival baseball site instead of being content on a Yankee forum like 99% of other Yankee fans do. We have many here like Traven and that is a shame.



    Fortuantely we only have a few here like you and Kim.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to traven's comment:

    The Cleveland Indians have traded outfielder Shin-Soo Choo to the Cincinnati Reds for outfielder Drew Stubbs. The deal was announced Tuesday night.  He would have made a nice addition for the Sox at a cheap price.



    1-Right now, we have 3 OFs, so I'm not sure Choo would be a nice addition.

    2-CL got Bauer for him.  That the equivalent of us giving up Bogaerts.

    And you think that's cheap?

    Seriously?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to traven's comment:

    The Cleveland Indians have traded outfielder Shin-Soo Choo to the Cincinnati Reds for outfielder Drew Stubbs. The deal was announced Tuesday night.  He would have made a nice addition for the Sox at a cheap price.



    1-Right now, we have 3 OFs, so I'm not sure Choo would be a nice addition.

    2-CL got Bauer for him.  That the equivalent of us giving up Bogaerts.

    And you think that's cheap?

    Seriously?

    Yes Cleveland got Bauer but the team that got Choo did not trade Bauer. They traded a SS prospect for Choo to the D-Backs that was not in their future plans and the D-Backs traded Bauer to Cleveland for that SS.  It was a 3 team trade - not a 2 team trade.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to traven's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to traven's comment:

    The Cleveland Indians have traded outfielder Shin-Soo Choo to the Cincinnati Reds for outfielder Drew Stubbs. The deal was announced Tuesday night.  He would have made a nice addition for the Sox at a cheap price.



    1-Right now, we have 3 OFs, so I'm not sure Choo would be a nice addition.

    2-CL got Bauer for him.  That the equivalent of us giving up Bogaerts.

    And you think that's cheap?

    Seriously?

    Yes Cleveland got Bauer but the team that got Choo did not trade Bauer. They traded a SS prospect for Choo to the D-Backs that was not in their future plans and the D-Backs traded Bauer to Cleveland for that SS.  It was a 3 team trade - not a 2 team trade.

     




    Well it sounds to me like the DBacks got hosed.  I mean, not like the Minnesota Twins, but fleeced nonetheless.

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to traven's comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    Wow. Did "Traven" actually start a thread just to let us know that a player was traded by a team not named the Sox to another team not named the Sox and we should be upset about it because we didn't get him? I can just imagine this board filled with threads like this of every trade we weren't involved in.



    Check out McCarthy to D-backs. 



    This trade also involved two ex-Red Sox. Nevermind kimpike and the fifth grade playground insults. Soldier on. Kimpike is the Fuhrer of the BDC Nazi party. Loyalty to the party is paramount, and all discussions of other parties are verboten.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    In response to hill55's comment:

    From a FanGraphs chat on Tuesday evening:

    10:07 [ Comment From Brian Brian: ] All things considered, who should have more trade value: Choo or Ellsbury? Tuesday December 11, 2012 10:07 Brian 10:08 Jeff Zimmerman: Choo for one year. You need him in the field for that year. Ells has more talent, but the health is a problem. Tuesday December 11, 2012 10:08 Jeff Zimmerman 10:08 Chris Cwik: Choo is coming off the better year. Both players are free agents after this season. I think it's pretty even, but more teams prefer Choo for one season, I would think. Tuesday December 11, 2012 10:08 Chris Cwik 10:09 Paul Swydan: Last five years, Choo has been more consistent. But he's also a year older. So it's a great question. With defense included, maybe Ellsbury. But I just have no idea how to project Ellsbury's bat at this point.



    I think the Reds might have preferred Ellsbury, but I dont think the teams' needs matched well enough to make the deal. The Sox need SP, and the Reds arent giving that up.




    The Sox didnt match up with KC either. Both KC and Cinci need pitching, or cant afford to give it up, like the Sox...If they can find a team that needs a CF/ leadoff hitter and can afford to give up some pitching, then were in business. If Ells gets traded it wont be until Jan/Feb IMO.



    Actually, we are one of the few teams that can afford to trade pitching, because we are one of the very few teams that can afford to replenish and add to our staff via this over-priced FA season.

    Not many teams can afford to spend so much and not go over the luxury tax limit.




    Yeah, but theres a bunch of overpriced #3-5's for pitching FA this year...Not something Id want to waste all my $$$ on and give up the future as well.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    Why don't you tell us about all the great trades that the Sox have made that fans should feel really good about?  I wonder how long that list will be?

    Off the top of my head.... (not in order of value & just players on the 2012 roster alone)

    1) The CC, Beckett, AGon, & Punto trade was one of the best trades this team made since maybe the Schill or Nomar deals. The fact that we are now squandering the money saved should not be held against this trade.

    2) The Scutaro trade: brought us Mortensen, allowed us to sign Ross, Shoppach & Padilla, and allowed us to get our manager due to Aviles' chance to improve his value.

    3) The Morales trade.

    4) The Salty trade.

    5) The getting Aviles trade.

    6) Getting Pods (twice in 1 year)

    7) Getting Beckett

    8) Getting Breslow

    9) Getting A Miller

    10) I still think Melancon will prove to be better than Lowrie/Weiland.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Why don't you tell us about all the great trades that the Sox have made that fans should feel really good about?  I wonder how long that list will be?

    Off the top of my head.... (not in order of value & just players on the 2012 roster alone)

    1) The CC, Beckett, AGon, & Punto trade was one of the best trades this team made since maybe the Schill or Nomar deals. The fact that we are now squandering the money saved should not be held against this trade.

    2) The Scutaro trade: brought us Mortensen, allowed us to sign Ross, Shoppach & Padilla, and allowed us to get our manager due to Aviles' chance to improve his value.

    3) The Morales trade.

    4) The Salty trade.

    5) The getting Aviles trade.

    6) Getting Pods (twice in 1 year)

    7) Getting Beckett

    8) Getting Breslow

    9) Getting A Miller

    10) I still think Melancon will prove to be better than Lowrie/Weiland.

     



    I think Melancon will surprise some people next year. I look for a vast improvement in him.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    In response to traven's comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    Wow. Did "Traven" actually start a thread just to let us know that a player was traded by a team not named the Sox to another team not named the Sox and we should be upset about it because we didn't get him? I can just imagine this board filled with threads like this of every trade we weren't involved in.



    Check out McCarthy to D-backs. 



    This trade also involved two ex-Red Sox. Nevermind kimpike and the fifth grade playground insults. Soldier on.



    Thanks!

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Cleveland trades Choo to Reds

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Why don't you tell us about all the great trades that the Sox have made that fans should feel really good about?  I wonder how long that list will be?

    Off the top of my head.... (not in order of value & just players on the 2012 roster alone)

    1) The CC, Beckett, AGon, & Punto trade was one of the best trades this team made since maybe the Schill or Nomar deals. The fact that we are now squandering the money saved should not be held against this trade.

    2) The Scutaro trade: brought us Mortensen, allowed us to sign Ross, Shoppach & Padilla, and allowed us to get our manager due to Aviles' chance to improve his value.

    3) The Morales trade.

    4) The Salty trade.

    5) The getting Aviles trade.

    6) Getting Pods (twice in 1 year)

    7) Getting Beckett

    8) Getting Breslow

    9) Getting A Miller

    10) I still think Melancon will prove to be better than Lowrie/Weiland.

     




    There are plenty of "under the radar" trades that have added a good quality player. A couple "blockbusters" as well.

    Ive liked the moves of Scoot for Mort. Giving up basically nothing for Salty after Texas wanted Buch. And I too think Melancon will be a solid bp arm after his strong finish in Yankee Stadium this year. Breslow is a good arm to have in the pen as well. Lots of good moves to talk about over the years.

     
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