In response to Soxdog67's comment:

Do posters really believe Iggy is better than Ciriaco? I don't. I agree we keep Ciriaco, but I think he should be at SS, especially now that Mike is gone.

Iggy is 100 times better defensively. Ciriaco also has a career sub.300 OBP. in the minors. If you play him FT, just like any career AAA guy, he will be exposed like he was at the end of the year.

In response to southpaw777's comment:

Then why was Ciriaco brought up? And he does hit better.

In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

I never said he didnt hit better, but although it is better its not like hes anything special with the bat either. Ciriaco is 27 where Iggy just turned 22 and needed more AB's, not be a bench guy which is basically what Ciriaco was brought up to be. Only reason he got so many AB's was because of injury.

In response to southpaw777's comment:

Well, couldn't 22-year-old Iggy just stay in the minors and learn to hit? I'm not sure he'd care since he's making millions there anyway.

In response to S5's comment:

This situation would be more like moving a SS to 3B. Much easier transition since it is still sales.

 

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I never said he didnt hit better, but although it is better its not like hes anything special with the bat either. Ciriaco is 27 where Iggy just turned 22 and needed more AB's, not be a bench guy which is basically what Ciriaco was brought up to be. Only reason he got so many AB's was because of injury.

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At this point I like Ciriaco better than Iggy.  In fact at this point I might even start Ciriaco ahead of Iggy.  But there are a couple of differences between them that make me choose Iggy over Ciriaco as my full-time SS

The first one is that Iggy is 22 and Ciriaco is 27 and at this moment Iggy is better defensively.  That's saying somnething because I LIKE Ciriaco's glove.  Iggy's always been able to 'catch up with the learning curve' offensively, meaning he's learned to hit at every level.  I think it would be a shame to let a guy who's as a good defensively as Iggy is to lanuguish in Pawtucket when IMO he needs ML AB's.  He has the potential to be a marquee shortstop and face of the franchise type player.  I'm no where near ready to give up on him at age 22, not even for a year in Pawtucket. 

I LIKE Ciriaco very much and I realize that numbers don't usually lie nor do trends.  But at the same time there is occasionally that player who comes into his own later in life and Ciriaco might be one of them.  But if I were the Manager I'd always have a lingering fear in the back of my mind that Ciriaco could become the Ciriaco of old at any minute.  I'm the first to admit that it's not fair to Ciriaco and if Iggy weren't pounding at the door and demanding to be let in Ciricao would be my SS.

However, Iggy IS there so I consider it a HUGE luxury to have someone as good as Ciriaco as a UIF.

 

I wasn't on the trade Youk bandwagon but wanted him to be delegated to bench sub. 

Just out of curiosity, from a practical perspective, is there really much of a difference between the abbreviation FWIW, which might save you 30 seconds, and contracting 'was not' to 'wasn't'?

In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

Ciriaco had a .518 OPS in his last 123 ABs.  He has, and has always had, a bad K/W.  56/9 for his career, and 5/1 in the minors.  That virtually always dooms a player.

In response to S5's comment:

Ž"Leaders must understand that some people will inevitably sellout to the evil side. Don't waste your time wondering why; spend your time discovering who." -- Jim Rohn

It's time for the FO to choose a position and move forward with it.

In response to S5's comment:

I never said he didnt hit better, but although it is better its not like hes anything special with the bat either. Ciriaco is 27 where Iggy just turned 22 and needed more AB's, not be a bench guy which is basically what Ciriaco was brought up to be. Only reason he got so many AB's was because of injury.

[/QUOTE]
At this point I like Ciriaco better than Iggy.  In fact at this point I might even start Ciriaco ahead of Iggy.  But there are a couple of differences between them that make me choose Iggy over Ciriaco as my full-time SS

The first one is that Iggy is 22 and Ciriaco is 27 and at this moment Iggy is better defensively.  That's saying somnething because I LIKE Ciriaco's glove.  Iggy's always been able to 'catch up with the learning curve' offensively, meaning he's learned to hit at every level.  I think it would be a shame to let a guy who's as a good defensively as Iggy is to lanuguish in Pawtucket when IMO he needs ML AB's.  He has the potential to be a marquee shortstop and face of the franchise type player.  I'm no where near ready to give up on him at age 22, not even for a year in Pawtucket. 

I LIKE Ciriaco very much and I realize that numbers don't usually lie nor do trends.  But at the same time there is occasionally that player who comes into his own later in life and Ciriaco might be one of them.  But if I were the Manager I'd always have a lingering fear in the back of my mind that Ciriaco could become the Ciriaco of old at any minute.  I'm the first to admit that it's not fair to Ciriaco and if Iggy weren't pounding at the door and demanding to be let in Ciricao would be my SS.

However, Iggy IS there so I consider it a HUGE luxury to have someone as good as Ciriaco as a UIF.

 

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except iggy hasn't learned to hit consistently in AAA, he had a single decent month before he was brought up. But ciriacos career MiLB stats speak for themselves.
 If you start Iggy over ciriaco you get a slightly better defense  and a slightly worse offense. I would say the differense between their offensive and defensive skills are about the same (ciriacos offense is X much better than iggys and iggys defense is X much better than ciriacos defense). So the real question is, what is going to benefit the team more from the SS position. a GG defense with sub-par offense or semi-GG defense with sub-par offense..

Moon has some great numbers to show Iggys worth to the pitching staff, which really convinced me that iggy should be starting. especially when you consider the pitching needs all the help it can get

They have to do something big this off season and pick up a good player who can help get this team back on track. It includes a starting pitcher, a first baseman, a shortstop who can hit, and a right fielder.

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I have NP with you and JB thinking it's a bad idea

but I disagree with you guys calling it a lame idea / discussion

especially if you consider all the other stuff on this board

I said I couldn't take the suggestion seriously.  since this may have never happened in the history of BB, then I will continue not to treat this seriously.  Where did Mickey Mantle go after he grew out of SS?  Carl Yaz?  ARod?  Hanley?  Bobby Murcer.

Playing SS assumes you have speed and an arm.  Why waste 2 of your attributes?  It's like converting a point guard to center because he is a good rebounder.  Or converting Marcus Allen to tackle because he can block, and losing the running and pass receiving.

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George Scott and Ernie Banks.

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Banks was 31 when he switched and had knee injuries.

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I am aware of that and assumed it would be mentioned.  But if a mental midget like myself can think of two reasonable examples in under 5 seconds there surely are other examples of such a conversion.

Though I agree in principle that moving an athletic, 20-year old SS to 1B is absurd and will not happen.

In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:

George Scott and Ernie Banks.

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Banks was 31 when he switched and had knee injuries.

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I am aware of that and assumed it would be mentioned.  But if a mental midget like myself can think of two reasonable examples in under 5 seconds there surely are other examples of such a conversion.

Though I agree in principle that moving an athletic, 20-year old SS to 1B is absurd and will not happen.

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The above statement sums it up perfectly!

In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

George Scott and Ernie Banks.

[/QUOTE]

Banks was 31 when he switched and had knee injuries.

[/QUOTE]

I am aware of that and assumed it would be mentioned.  But if a mental midget like myself can think of two reasonable examples in under 5 seconds there surely are other examples of such a conversion.

Though I agree in principle that moving an athletic, 20-year old SS to 1B is absurd and will not happen.

[/QUOTE]

George Scott never played SS in the pros or the minor leagues.  That's not as reasonable as you might think.

In response to southpaw777's comment:

Thank you.  The cult of Pedro "Algernon" Ciriaco drives me nuts.  I wish him well, I hope I'm wrong in that I think he's a poor, aged, undisciplined minor league failure that had 3 hot weeks at bat for Boston last summer.

What makes people think that a 27-year old AAAA player with a .656 MiLB OPS in over 3,500 PAs suddenly learned to hit on 7 July 2012?  If he did, he forgot how to do it the evening of the 28th.

[note:  Nick Punto's career MLB OPS is .649]

Iglesias is a brilliant defensive shortstop, who has learned to hit acceptably at every level so far. Ciriaco is an exciting , fun player to watch , but he seems to play a bit out of control, is somewhat erratic with his throws and lacks discipline at the plate. Pitchers will come to exploit this. I am not trying to kill Ciriaco. I think he has a place on the team. But Iglesias should be our starting shortstop. I don't think there should be any question about that.

This post has been removed.

In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

At this point it would be better for him to adjust to MLB pitching and use his stellar defense to save a ton of runs. he started adjusting already in AAA, hitting over .300 since the end of July through August until his call up.