Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today:
    [QUOTE]Today http://www.csnne.com/blog/redsox-talk/post/With-money-to-spend-OF-Ross-others-in-So?blockID=636874&feedID=10430 And Edes Espn story earlier had an explanation of the AAV one the option was picked up ultimately saves $8M. It may have Been this http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2012/01/23/making-sense-marco-scutaro-trade
    Posted by NegativeTrollsAbound[/QUOTE]

    Good find and I'm going to do some digging, but under the old CBA, there was a exception for AAV purposes if the buyout was 50% or more compared to the player option (say $1.5M buyout with a $3M player option).  I'll let you know what I find.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today

    thanks for the links....good stuff.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today:
    [QUOTE]Today http://www.csnne.com/blog/redsox-talk/post/With-money-to-spend-OF-Ross-others-in-So?blockID=636874&feedID=10430 And Edes Espn story earlier had an explanation of the AAV one the option was picked up ultimately saves $8M. It may have Been this http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2012/01/23/making-sense-marco-scutaro-trade
    Posted by NegativeTrollsAbound[/QUOTE]

    I left Alex a note, he got back to me last time I asked him about this (and even posted it in his mailbag as well).  I was able to find this CBA clause in his old mailbag though:

    "If a Player Option Year falls in the 2012 Contract Year or later, and the Base Salary (plus any attributed Signing Bonus, deferred compensation or annuity costs) in the Player Option Year (“Player Option Year Value”) is less than 80% of the Base Salary (plus any attributed Signing Bonus, deferred compensation or annuity costs) in the Guaranteed Year with the smallest such figure before the first such Player Option Year (80% Figure), then the difference between the 80% Figure and the Player Option Year Value shall be allocated pro rata across the Guaranteed Years preceding the first such Player Option Year; provided, however, that if the 80% Figure is itself less than 75% of the Average Annual Value of the Contract (calculated as if the Player Option Year was not a Guaranteed Year), then the 80% Figure shall instead be 75% of the Average Annual Value calculation set out immediately above."

    Basically, since his player option was less than 80% of his lowest years guaranteed salary, the difference between 80% of his $5M salary and his player option (0.8 * $5M - $3M = $1M) should be prorated throughout the guaranteed years of his contract excluding his player option year.  This would mean that (barring any changes in the new CBA) Scoot's tax hit was only scheduled to be about $5M for 2012, even with the Sox picking up his $6M option, because at the end of a contract, the total CBT charge must equal the total money paid to the player, with some corrections occurring in the next season, such as with Beltre when we had the $3M tax hit for him last year, because of how his player option was structured.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today:
    [QUOTE]That's a very good article that brings another obvious question:  so why not tack on a $1mill player option to a one year $8mill deal for Oswalt, and bring his AAV down to $4.5mill?  
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]


    I see your point, but it seems (if I am understanding any of this at all correctly) that it has to be guaranteed money.  A buyout of 1.5 million, perhaps, and a player option go buy out.  If Oswalt would settle for an 8 million dollar salary with a 3 million dollar player option and 1.5 million dollar buyout, then you might be talking about a CBA in the 4.75 million range.  But why would he do that?

    On the other hand, it appears Gavin Floyd is well under the CBA needs of the Sox, so perhaps the reason Oswalt is not yet signed, and may not end up being signed by the Sox, is that the Sox are trying to trade for Floyd.

    Either way:  Ross and Oswalt or Ross and Floyd, I am ok with that.  Essentially, then, the Sox traded Scutaro for Ross, Mortensen and Oswalt, or Ross, Mortensen and Floyd.  A damned good return for old Scutty, IMO.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today

    While we didn't get an expensive RF'er, it's hard to not imagine a nice upgrade from our 2011 RF numbers:

    Sox RF '11:                .233/.299/.353/.652
    Career
    Ross vs LHPs:          .282/.349/.563/.912
    Ross vs RHPs:          .253/.313/.414/.727
    Sweeney vs RHPs:  .296/.352/.402/.754

    Is it unrealistic to project an OPS of .800-.825 combined?
    We could even see a 200 point gain here for about $4M above the cost of Reddick/DMac.

    Good job Ben!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today : I left Alex a note, he got back to me last time I asked him about this (and even posted it in his mailbag as well).  I was able to find this CBA clause in his old mailbag though: "If a Player Option Year falls in the 2012 Contract Year or later, and the Base Salary (plus any attributed Signing Bonus, deferred compensation or annuity costs) in the Player Option Year (“Player Option Year Value”) is less than 80% of the Base Salary (plus any attributed Signing Bonus, deferred compensation or annuity costs) in the Guaranteed Year with the smallest such figure before the first such Player Option Year (80% Figure), then the difference between the 80% Figure and the Player Option Year Value shall be allocated pro rata across the Guaranteed Years preceding the first such Player Option Year; provided, however, that if the 80% Figure is itself less than 75% of the Average Annual Value of the Contract (calculated as if the Player Option Year was not a Guaranteed Year), then the 80% Figure shall instead be 75% of the Average Annual Value calculation set out immediately above." Basically, since his player option was less than 80% of his lowest years guaranteed salary, the difference between 80% of his $5M salary and his player option (0.8 * $5M - $3M = $1M) should be prorated throughout the guaranteed years of his contract excluding his player option year.  This would mean that (barring any changes in the new CBA) Scoot's tax hit was only scheduled to be about $5M for 2012, even with the Sox picking up his $6M option, because at the end of a contract, the total CBT charge must equal the total money paid to the player, with some corrections occurring in the next season, such as with Beltre when we had the $3M tax hit for him last year, because of how his player option was structured.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]

    Great stuff...complicated but great!

    I assumed Scutaro's luxury tax hit for us would have been $5.67M  based  on $17M/3

    Change of subjects....

    For all the luxury tax experts, here's a question:

    If we trade for Floyd, what's the salary hit for tax purposes?

    $3.9M  (Contract $15.5M/4 with 2 years left)
    or
    $7M (His 2012 salary as 2013 is a club option year)
    or 
    $8.25M ($7M in 2012 + $9.5M club option '13 = $16.5/2)

    Sox4ever


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today : Great stuff...complicated but great! I assumed Scutaro's luxury tax hit for us would have been $5.67M  based  on $17M/3 Change of subjects.... For all the luxury tax experts, here's a question: If we trade for Floyd, what's the salary hit for tax purposes? $3.9M  (Contract $15.5M/4 with 2 years left) or $7M (His 2012 salary as 2013 is a club option year) or  $8.25M ($7M in 2012 + $9.5M club option '13 = $16.5/2) Sox4ever
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] Morning moon and all...congrats guys, nice get by the Sox...i like Ross..
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today : Ross wouldn't be getting close to 6.3 million. At the beginning of the offseason he orginally wanted 2 years for 5-6 million, but because it's been so long and jobs are few and far between I think we'll see Ross sign a 1 year contract for just under 2 million
    Posted by Jerry30791[/QUOTE]

    $3M plus incentives.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today : His numbers versus lefties while playing mostly in pitchers ballparks are really impressive and way better than what could be xepcted from any of the rookie outfielders you talk about.
    Posted by tomnev[/QUOTE]

    Yes, they said that about Cameron as well, and look how that worked out.
    Ross is strictly bench material. Nothing to get real excited about.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    What a crock!
    It's a sad day when the 2nd highest payroll claims they need to move payroll to sign players, when much smaller market teams are shelling out the dough for quality players.
    Ownership is selling the fans short big time. If JH thinks he can win a championship with bargain-basement players, he's in for a rude awakening.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]What a crock! It's a sad day when the 2nd highest payroll claims they need to move payroll to sign players, when much smaller market teams are shelling out the dough for quality players. Ownership is selling the fans short big time. If JH thinks he can win a championship with bargain-basement players, he's in for a rude awakening.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    LOL...nice contradiction, the 2nd highest payroll and their bargain-basement players. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today:
    [QUOTE]Heck, there are 5 guys in our minor league system alone who could be the new JD Drew
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    Nah.  Cody is the antithesis of JD Drew.  Cody may not have all the "tools" that JD had.  But, Ross is a gamer.  Dirt.  Dog.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today

    In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox Having "Ongoing Dialogue" With Cody Ross/Cody Ross Decision Expected Today : Great stuff...complicated but great! I assumed Scutaro's luxury tax hit for us would have been $5.67M  based  on $17M/3 Change of subjects.... For all the luxury tax experts, here's a question: If we trade for Floyd, what's the salary hit for tax purposes? $3.9M  (Contract $15.5M/4 with 2 years left) or $7M (His 2012 salary as 2013 is a club option year) or  $8.25M ($7M in 2012 + $9.5M club option '13 = $16.5/2) Sox4ever
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    For this season his tax hit would be $3.9M, I don't believe his club option has a buyout (at least according to Cot's), so that would be a non-issue.  Next season, he would carry a tax hit of $9.5M since the total for tax purposes must equal the total money paid over the life of the deal.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    Moon,

    I also came across the verbiage causing the Sox to stay under the tax at seemingly all costs.  Basically, for staying under the cap for 1 year, 25% of revenue sharing money is refunded to the team, 50% for 2 consecutive years, and 100% for 3+ years.  We're talking in excess of $20M a year in revenue sharing savings.  Not that it helps the fans if the money never sees the field and the team can't spend on drafting or signing international FA's.  But that's certainly significant motivation.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox : LOL...nice contradiction, the 2nd highest payroll and their bargain-basement players. 
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    You know exactly what I mean. I'm talking about all the minor league contracts, and mediocre major league contracts they have taken on.
    No one that the RS have acquired is an impact player.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox : You know exactly what I mean. I'm talking about all the minor league contracts, and mediocre major league contracts they have taken on. No one that the RS have acquired is an impact player.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    So you're saying that AGon isn't an impact player?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox : You know exactly what I mean. I'm talking about all the minor league contracts, and mediocre major league contracts they have taken on. No one that the RS have acquired is an impact player.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Which impact player were you expecting them to get?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox : So you're saying that AGon isn't an impact player?
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]

    I'm talking this year.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox : Which impact player were you expecting them to get?
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Jeff Francoeur, Yadier Molina, CJ Wilson.....you know, real impact players!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox : I'm talking this year.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    So am I.  Just because the deal was signed in April, doesn't mean that it wasn't using the FA money for this offseason.  The contract doesn't kick in until the 2012 season.  He would have been a FA and we wouldn't have had a 1B going into 2012, unless we used the AGon money on another 1B, who was either paid significantly more (Pujols) or a worse long term fit (Fielder).  You would have gotten your "impact" FA signing, but the team wouldn't have been better off.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    Great move.  I'm going to pat myself on the back and say I was starting threads in November saying Ross was a guy who should be targeted. 

    He is a great platoon fit but also a great 4th OF fit who can play all 3 OF positions.  He is by all accounts a great clubhouse guy, has shown an ability to  play great in the big moments, and in my opinion comes at a great value b/c Ross's numbers have suffered playing in SF and the N.L. west in general. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    Was Bill Mueller an "impact" player when he signed?  How about Millar?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox : Jeff Francoeur, Yadier Molina, CJ Wilson.....you know, real impact players!
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Francoeur signed a club-friendly deal with KC through 2013 in the middle of last season.  So, KC would ask the moon for him in return, if they would move him at all.  So, NOT REALISTIC.

    Molina is signed through next year and is one of the premier catchers in the game today.  After losing Pujols, pretty sure it is a St. louis priority to keep yadier around.  So, again, asking for the moon in return.  NOT REALISTIC.

    CJ Wilson.  Not worth that money & years.  Just because he was the best available starter in this extremely weak free agent crop does not mean he is a must have.  I pretty much guarantee you would be up in arms by July with his inconsistent, far-less-than-"ace" performance, talking about how Ben C. wastes money just like Theo.

    I love your thoughts on impact players for fantasy baseball.  For sure.  Just not in real baseball.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]Moon, I also came across the verbiage causing the Sox to stay under the tax at seemingly all costs.  Basically, for staying under the cap for 1 year, 25% of revenue sharing money is refunded to the team, 50% for 2 consecutive years, and 100% for 3+ years.  We're talking in excess of $20M a year in revenue sharing savings.  Not that it helps the fans if the money never sees the field and the team can't spend on drafting or signing international FA's.  But that's certainly significant motivation.
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]

    Thanks. All the more reason to stay under at least for this year. I also think we can easily stay under next year, since we lose a lot of salary:
    Papi $12-16M
    Dice-K $8.7M (AVV)
    Jenks $6M
    Ross $3M
    Shopp $1.5M
    (Youk has a club option $13M with $1M buyout)

    We lose at least $30M and maybe $48M if You walks.
    That's a lot of money to fill just a couple of positions.


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Cody Ross agrees to sign with Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]Was Bill Mueller an "impact" player when he signed?  How about Millar?
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    Or Papi!

    Nice call on Ross. I jumped on your bandwagon early, but you made the call!

     
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