Colon?

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    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : nhsteven, I would say the same thing even if a miracle like this happened to Schill but his situation was much more believable.  Can you personally remember a situation like this?
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    There's a few that are similar (Catfish Hunter '78 comes to mind, after a terrible yr in 77, and an ERA of 6.52 in June where he couldn't throw more than a couple of innings, he rehabbed, then pitched 8 Innings of SO ball, then a CG SO, and finished the season on an 9-2 streak with an ERA under 3) but not that I can recall to this degree. The investigation is warranted; until then, these cranks should stop whining.


     
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    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : There's a few that are similar (Catfish Hunter '78 comes to mind, after a terrible yr in 77, and an ERA of 6.52 in June where he couldn't throw more than a couple of innings, he rehabbed, then pitched 8 Innings of SO ball, then a CG SO, and finished the season on an 11-2 streak with an ERA under 3) but not that I can recall to this degree. The investigation is warranted; until then, these cranks should stop whining.
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    A velocity pitcher to my knowledge anyway "I could be wrong" has never regained his arm speed under these circumstances.  I don't even necessarily care about an investigation.  Just a bit more info on what this "secret" medicine is.  I think every aging pitcher in baseball would want it.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    Others worth noting:
    Walter Johnson
    Grover Cleveland Alexander
    Robin Roberts
    Goose Gossage
    Dennis Eckersley
    Jamie Moyer
    Cliff Lee
    Roy Halladay
    Francisco Liriano
    Jose Contreras
    Chris Carpenter
    Brad Lidge
    Tim Hudson

    These were not comebacks to the degree of Colon, for the most part. And agreed, the investigation is justified. If it's clean, this Dr. certainly made a name for himself, and this procedure will become commonplace, ala Tommy John surgery.
     
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    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    When Rocket started to breakdown a bit, and got out of shape too last few years with Sox, he made this miraculous "recovery" where in his last few starts as a Red Sox, he was throwing major gas and the fat seemed to become muscle and he was even a little slimmer from a torso/tummy view.  Then he had maybe his greatest season ever with the Blue Jays, Cy Young hands down, dominating. Colon was a great pitcher, very hard to hit in his prime with Indians. He was nasty and threw ridiculously. Well, it's been a long time since he was an Indian, and he's had some interesting short stints with several teams where his velocity was average and he got lit up at times. This year, he just suddenly morphs back into 22-year-old Bartolo again...yes, very believable to do that with hiring a new "trainer"....

     
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    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    Yankee--Redsox Rivalry PED Flowchart

     

    Player performs better than recent seasons

    If Player == Red Sox  

       Whiners above sing his praises as a find

    else If Player == Yankees 

       Whiners above cry foul without due course; especially if RS behind in the standings

     
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    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : I'll own my ignorance about this, thanks for the info. However, suspended pending the results? What about innocent until proven guilty? If he lasts all year, I too will think something is amiss, but my main point is to not be so quick to point fingers. There are too many dirty players across baseball, and it's a shame that clean players get looked at skeptically, and not lauded as much as they deserve because of what this league has done. Jose Bautista anyone? If anything raises an eyebrow, it's him, but it's not fair to continually question the guy. It's really not fair to question anyone. All we can really, and fairly do as fans is keep those comments to ourselves, and unleash the fury on the players who DO test positive, of which there are plenty. Manny and Palmeiro will forever be my two biggest frauds, and Clemens and Bonds will likely find themselves on that list, but without concrete proof, there's too much of it all across baseball to single out a few here and there. Charlie Sheen took roids for Major League! Talk about devotion to accuracy in his role. I will say that the testing is still inadequate. Why not just test every player every week? Why not test for HGH? The union knows how dirty they are, that's why they agree to nothing, that's why it's so unfair to go after a select few. I guarantee there are guys juicing who are still 5th starters and utility infielders, but they get a pass?
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    MLB is not a court of law - it's a private organization and one that has been rocked by a steroid scandal, and is ostensibly doing its best to rid itself of that image.  

    Colon is already guilty of not disclosing a medical procedure - the Yankees could have voided his contract on breach.  MLB approves all team contracts - I don't know if they have the authority to do the same.

    And yes, other pitchers are lining up for this procedure ...




     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]Steve, you think Hunter belongs in this category?
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    No, and I thought I said that. While rehabbing, Hunter saw some sort of kinesiologist who 'manipulated' his shoulder. Imagine what people would think today. If you want to look at somebody closer, try Goose Gossage in '89-'91, or Tim Hudson a few yrs ago.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]Yankee--Redsox Rivalry PED Flowchart   Player performs better than recent seasons If Player == Red Sox      Whiners above sing his praises as a find else If Player == Yankees     Whiners above cry foul without due course; especially if RS behind in the standings
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    I think both fan bases would agree that Colon's success is directly related to this procedure.  The debate is the legimitacy of the procedure itself - to equate this situation with finger-pointing at a player having a good year is insincere.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : A velocity pitcher to my knowledge anyway "I could be wrong" has never regained his arm speed under these circumstances.  I don't even necessarily care about an investigation.  Just a bit more info on what this "secret" medicine is.  I think every aging pitcher in baseball would want it.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely. But you're the OP of this sour thread. Your tone has certainly backed off.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : I think both fan bases would agree that Colon's success is directly related to this procedure.  The debate is the legimitacy of the procedure itself - to equate this situation with finger-pointing at a player having a good year is insincere.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Agree 100%
     
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    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    What are the Yankee fans saying about this on the Yankee forums? It would be interesting to read. A link please?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]What are the Yankee fans saying about this on the Yankee forums? It would be interesting to read. A link please?
    Posted by Your-Echo[/QUOTE]

    Didn't you just come from there?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    Funny comment by Steve Somers, WFAN NY, about Colon:


    He has more 'chins' than a Chinese Phonebook.
     
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    Re: Needle marked Colon?


    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : Not saying anything but it's a bit strange pinstripe.  I can't think of too many/if any has been pitchers that have ever regained this kind of arm strength after losing it. Even the average Yankee fan should see this is not the norm.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Not saying anything

    craze,
     
    I appreciate you responding

    but you gotta do better than that

    you started a thread with some serious charges

    if this was about taking some drugs

    then why would the results be so rare

    I can't think of too many/if any has been pitchers that have ever regained this kind of arm strength after losing it.


    he had a rather new operation


    I'm guessing if he had the 1st tommy john surgery
     
    in this day & age that

    you would be saying the same thing.........right?




    so tell me what do you want the comish to do ?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : Not saying anything craze,   I appreciate you responding but you gotta do better than that you started a thread with some serious charges if this was about taking some drugs then why would the results be so rare I can't think of too many/if any has been pitchers that have ever regained this kind of arm strength after losing it. he had a rather new operation I'm guessing if he had the 1st tommy john surgery   in this day & age that you would be saying the same thing.........right? so tell me what do you want the comish to do ?
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE]

    I would just be happy to see Colon "man up" and give everyone a little more information about it.  We all know "Selig" would just look the other way until pushed into it. 
     
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    Re: Needle marked Colon?


    I would just be happy to see Colon "man up" and give everyone a little more information about it.
     

    like what ?

    what can they say or do

    that would make a disbeliever (RSN) believe ?

    they already gave mlb a video of his operation


     We all know "Selig" would just look the other way until pushed into it.


    actually

    I didn't know that

    I did know that there is a union that doesn't allow blood testing

    not that I think that would make a difference anyways if he was using hgh 





    I repeat



    if this was about taking some drugs

    then why would the results be so rare

    do you really think colon would be the only one doing it

     
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]Colon should be suspended pending the results of the investigation. Or his contract should be voided by MLB -   holly chit slomag what country R U from in the wake of the steroid era, do you believe the responsible thing to do is to turn a blind eye when a player has a secret operation in another country ?  secret ? just because they didn't tell people who never asked that doesn't mean they were hiding anything illegal How many players in their mid-30s will "retire" for a year, and come back playing like they did in their prime? what part of '' new'' don't you understand about this 'new 'stem cell procedure
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE]

    What are you talking about?  MLB suspends players all the time when it's in the "best interest of baseball". There's no trial by your peers if you're involved in a bench-clearing brawl.  

    Colon was asked for a medical history when he signed with the Yankees, and he failed to disclose the operation.  That's a secret - do you think it slipped his mind?  

    Pete Rose was banned for life for betting on his own team - this is a far more serious offense, with the implications of a far more recent scandal hanging overhead.





     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]I would just be happy to see Colon "man up" and give everyone a little more information about it.   like what ? what can they say or do that would make a disbeliever (RSN)  believe ? they already gave mlb a video of his operation  We all know "Selig" would just look the other way until pushed into it . actually I didn't know that I did know that there is a union that doesn't allow blood testing not that I think that would make a difference anyways if he was using hgh  I repeat if this was about taking some drugs then why would the results be so rare do you really think colon would be the only one doing it  
    Posted by pinstripezac32[/QUOTE]

    1) He has to submit to a blood test to rule out HGH
    2) Any player who leaves MLB with plans on returning, must consult MLB before undergoing any medical procedures.
    3) MLB needs to make a ruling on the validity of the stem-cell only procedure.  For all we know, they consider stem cells a banned substance.

    Regardless of whether or not PEDs are involved, this is the first procedure of its kind.  I don't equate it to somebody taking some steroids and beating the tests (which I think is unlikely in 2011).  From what I read, Pedro Martinez was asked first, and he declined the procedure.  There will be others, so MLB needs a policy in place.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : What are you talking about?  MLB suspends players all the time when it's in the "best interest of baseball". There's no trial by your peers if you're involved in a bench-clearing brawl.   Colon was asked for a medical history when he signed with the Yankees, and he failed to disclose the operation.  That's a secret - do you think it slipped his mind?   Pete Rose was banned for life for betting on his own team - this is a far more serious offense, with the implications of a far more recent scandal hanging overhead.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Should he have told the Yankees (Assuming he kept it from them)? Yes. Was it legal? TBD. Is it the baseball crime of the century? That's laughable. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]yes, great comparison.  he is playing like Clemens and bonds and mcguire and giambi and pettitte and sosa and gradyson and teixiera and canseco and all the other juicers.  the evidence is overwelming.  WHY WON'T THEY SUSPEND HIM?  I DON'T GET IT.
    Posted by can-you-dig-it[/QUOTE]

    There are alot of things that you apparently don't get.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : Should he have told the Yankees (Assuming he kept it from them)? Yes. Was it legal? TBD. It is the baseball crime of the century? That's laughable. 
    Posted by nhsteven[/QUOTE]

    The century is pretty young.  The steroid era is the biggest scandal to hit baseball since the Black Sox scandal.  Pete Rose's ban came 70 years after the Black Sox scandal. 
     

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