Colon?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : The century is pretty young.  The steroid era is the biggest scandal to hit baseball since the Black Sox scandal.  Pete Rose's ban came 70 years after the Black Sox scandal. 
    Posted by slomag


    Your whining is getting old. It all stemmed from a NYT Story. If the investigation concludes it's OK, I'm sure you'll give credit where credit is due, of course. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : Should he have told the Yankees (Assuming he kept it from them)? Yes. Was it legal? TBD. Is it the baseball crime of the century? That's laughable. 
    Posted by nhsteven


    The implications are going to be directly related to Colon's performance.  If he falters or gets injured, the story will disappear.  If he continues to perform well, and even improve?  If he contends for the Cy Young award, or pitches in the playoffs?  MLB knows about this right now, and there is no "everybody is doing it" excuse.  They can nip it in the bud, or the can look the other way.



     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : The implications are going to be directly related to Colon's performance.  If he falters or gets injured, the story will disappear.  If he continues to perform well, and even improve?  If he contends for the Cy Young award, or pitches in the playoffs?  MLB knows about this right now, and there is no "everybody is doing it" excuse.  They can nip it in the bud, or the can look the other way.
    Posted by slomag


    This could be a novel and new legitimate procedure; ever think of that? Of course not. He was also pitching well in winter ball, which is why the Yankees took a 'flyer' on him and signed him to a minor league contract. At the time, RS fans were making fun of the signing. Many treat this as a great story, BTW. IMO, the jury's out, until a determination regarding legitimacy is made. (Which probably won't satisfy you anyway). Also, other pitchers have had dramatic comebacks, albeit not quite like this perhaps in most cases. Otherwise, now that you're point's been made, you're just chronically whining and overreacting.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : Your whining is getting old. It all stemmed from a NYT Story. If the investigation concludes it's OK, I'm sure you'll give credit where credit is due, of course. 
    Posted by nhsteven


    I don't see any outcome that can conclude that Colon mistakenly with-held the information about the procedure.  I was actually rooting for Colon personally at the start of the season, but obviously, I'm not his biggest fan at the moment.

    Best case scenario for Colon - he withheld the information at the advice of his agent, there were no PEDs involved, and MLB approves the stem-cell only procedure.  Even in this case, it's hard to imagine they do not attach some oversight stipulations.  If this is the outcome, I will feel like he got away with asking for forgiveness instead of permission.  I'm not sure who or what you would want me to credit?






     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : I don't see any outcome that can conclude that Colon mistakenly with-held the information about the procedure.  I was actually rooting for Colon personally at the start of the season, but obviously, I'm not his biggest fan at the moment. Best case scenario for Colon - he withheld the information at the advice of his agent, there were no PEDs involved, and MLB approves the stem-cell only procedure.  Even in this case, it's hard to imagine they do not attach some oversight stipulations.  If this is the outcome, I will feel like he got away with asking for forgiveness instead of permission.  I'm not sure who or what you would want me to credit?
    Posted by slomag


    This is fair. What I meant by credit, I meant the Dr., and Colon's performance; assuming it's legit.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : This could be a novel and new legitimate procedure; ever think of that? Of course not. He was also pitching well in winter ball, which is why the Yankees took a ' flyer ' on him and signed him to a minor league contract. At the time, RS fans were making fun of the signing. Many treat this as a great story, BTW. IMO, the jury's out, until a determination regarding legitimacy is made. (Which probably won't satisfy you anyway). Also, other pitchers have had dramatic comebacks, albeit not quite like this perhaps in most cases. Otherwise, now that you're point's been made, you're just chronically whining and overreacting; it's almost like you're self-trolling yourself. 
    Posted by nhsteven

    If not for the secrecy, I think you would have a good point, and I would take a different view of the whole situation.  But as is, I don't think anybody outside of the Bronx sees this as a feel-good story any more.  You've said yourself you have mixed emotions watching Colon's success, as I'm sure I would if the shoe were on the other foot.

    I actually think this has been a productive debate - we're getting past the "Well, Ortiz is on steroids too" garbage and talking about what the policies should be.



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : This is fair. What I meant by credit, I meant the Dr., and Colon's performance; assuming it's legit.
    Posted by nhsteven


    Definitely the procedure is remarkable, so I can credit Dr Purita right away.  I'm not afraid to say Colon's performance has been terrific as well, but we won't really know what kind of credit is due until other pitchers come back from similar procedures.  Colon is on pace for 160 innings and a 2.88 ERA.  That's arguably his best season ever - at age 38, six years since his last full healthy season.  Obviously, that's amazing.  But how do we judge him?  What if Pedro Martinez has 400 Ks in 2013 :)


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : Definitely the procedure is remarkable, so I can credit Dr Purita right away.  I'm not afraid to say Colon's performance has been terrific as well, but we won't really know what kind of credit is due until other pitchers come back from similar procedures.  Colon is on pace for 160 innings and a 2.88 ERA.  That's arguably his best season ever - at age 38, six years since his last full healthy season.  Obviously, that's amazing.  But how do we judge him?  What if Pedro Martinez has 400 Ks in 2013 :)
    Posted by slomag


    It would not be his best season in that case, and IMO; in '05, he won the CYA (21-8 3.48) ,and in '02 went 20-8, 2.93, during yrs where hitting reigned supreme.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from heobrien. Show heobrien's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    Colon should be suspended pending the results of the investigation.  Or his contract should be voided by MLB - ..."

     Because in the land that invented "Innocent until proven guilty” that’s kind of the way we roll.  Nice thought on the 4th of July weekend.  

    Like the union would stand by and just watch that happen.  Oh and by the way, the the players union has beat the snot out of the owners EVERY time the bumped heads.  So, I’m sure the owners want to fight that fight. 

    Just cause Gorilla Boy has proven he can’t do low risk high reward and the Yankees have proven with Colon, Garcia and to some extent even Andrew Jones that they can isn’t reason to start a witch hunt.


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    I am jealous that Bartolo has done so well, for the Yanquis.

    I am not jealous that Bartolo has done well.

    I am aware there is a mysteriousness to all this.  But I'm not really ready to accuse ...  that's not fair.  I never appreciated the charges against Papi that NYuck trolls love to toss around here.  

    If he gets his career back I can only be happy for him.  If he chooses to stay with the NYucks only builds into the rivalry. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from heobrien. Show heobrien's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    I am jealous that Bartolo has done so well, for the Yanquis. I am not jealous that Bartolo has done well. I am aware there is a mysteriousness to all this.  But I'm not really ready to accuse ...  that's not fair.  I never appreciated the charges against Papi that NYuck trolls love to toss around here.   If he gets his career back I can only be happy for him.  If he chooses to stay with the NYucks only builds into the rivalry. 
    Posted by SinceYaz

    Look at  the bright side, .. Colon isn't signed for nest season so the RS can pick him up in the FA market after this season.  Think about it, ... would you rather have Colon or Wakefield as your #5 starter next year?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    Don't you all think Ur jumping the gun on this guy?
    Ever think that he may simply be exposing weak competition?

    Why not look at the realities:
    Colon has only faced two really good line-ups: Texas and Boston.
    He given up 10 runs in 14.3 IP - 8 ER for a 5.04 ERA.

    He's faced decent line-ups in Detroit, Toronto, Chicago and CA:
    16 ER in 31.6 IP  4.52 ERA

    Here are his numbers vs. weak line-ups (A's/O's/Indians)
    0 ER 17.6 IP  0.00 ERA

    12 outings and he's pitched 7 or more frames in 33% of them, half of which were vs. weak offense.

    Today he faced the N.L.

    As he's exposed more and teams in his own division see him more often, I say he comes down to earth, if he stays healthy.

    His last season before his surgery, he had a 4.19 ERA with Chicago.
    3.92 ERA with Boston before that. 
    I don't expect a ton of variance by the season's end.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : Look at  the bright side, .. Colon isn't signed for nest season so the RS can pick him up in the FA market after this season.  Think about it, ... would you rather have Colon or Wakefield as your #5 starter next year?
    Posted by heobrien


    Your concern is duly noted.
    Funny thing is ... I admit I don't pay enough attention in detail to the NYucks to know its   #5 or #4 starter ... or their possible replacements.

    But you're quite intimate with Red Sox personnel. 

    I pay the guy a compliment and hope for his personal success and you turn it into a cute little counterpoint.





     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    This argument is so ridiculous. The Yankee fans are saying there's nothing wrong with the way Colon's pitching. LOL  He just got some rest. LOL  He failed to tell MLB about his recent operation in his medical history. Why would someone do that?  And not to mention the surgery WAS ON HIS PITCHING ARM.

    There isn't anything neutral that any of them say, and yet they're here telling Sox fans to keep it real.  Why do posters put up with this, and continue to be policed by a Yankee patrol on their own board?  It boggles the mind.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    Don't you all think Ur jumping the gun on this guy? Ever think that he may simply be exposing weak competition? Why not look at the realities: Colon has only faced two really good line-ups: Texas and Boston. He given up 10 runs in 14.3 IP - 8 ER for a 5.04 ERA. He's faced decent line-ups in Detroit, Toronto, Chicago and CA: 16 ER in 31.6 IP  4.52 ERA Here are his numbers vs. weak line-ups (A's/O's/Indians) 0 ER 17.6 IP  0.00 ERA 12 outings and he's pitched 7 or more frames in 33% of them, half of which were vs. weak offense. Today he faced the N.L. As he's exposed more and teams in his own division see him more often, I say he comes down to earth, if he stays healthy. His last season before his surgery, he had a 4.19 ERA with Chicago. 3.92 ERA with Boston before that.  I don't expect a ton of variance by the season's end.
    Posted by harness




    Good work getting those splits, harness.

    Very interesting
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    Why would he hide it? Well, if everything IS legit, who's taking a chance on a guy who was just the first potcher ever to get a given surgery? No-bod-y.

    heobrien -

    I guess Ortiz/Mueller/Millar in 04 don't count? I know, all it did was secure their first ring in 86 years, and found Ortiz, for $1mil, who turned into one of the better power hitters for the past 7 years.

    Also, sorry if all our "low risk" players come from outstanding drafting rather than praying on someone else's garbage. Yeah, it's much better to take a shot on some 33 year old has been, never was, or rehab project than a 23 year old from DR or a college kid. Are you a Steinbrenner?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    Don't you all think Ur jumping the gun on this guy? Ever think that he may simply be exposing weak competition? Why not look at the realities: Colon has only faced two really good line-ups: Texas and Boston. He given up 10 runs in 14.3 IP - 8 ER for a 5.04 ERA. He's faced decent line-ups in Detroit, Toronto, Chicago and CA: 16 ER in 31.6 IP  4.52 ERA Here are his numbers vs. weak line-ups (A's/O's/Indians) 0 ER 17.6 IP  0.00 ERA 12 outings and he's pitched 7 or more frames in 33% of them, half of which were vs. weak offense. Today he faced the N.L. As he's exposed more and teams in his own division see him more often, I say he comes down to earth, if he stays healthy. His last season before his surgery, he had a 4.19 ERA with Chicago. 3.92 ERA with Boston before that.  I don't expect a ton of variance by the season's end.
    Posted by harness




    Maybe.  I wonder if that same variance vs. good and bad lineups existed earlier in his career, too.   It probably exists with most pitchers to some degree.  Still, whatever the findings, I don't feel Colon will dominate the Red Sox when their lineup is reasonably complete and healthy.  At best, he may pitch a quality start that will get them into the 6th.  Not bad if he were a 4th starter.  With the exception of Sabatthia, I don't think they have big game starters.  The matchups at the top of the rotation: Beckett, Lester, Buchholz vs. Sabathia, Burnett, Hughes clearly favor the Red Sox. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from heobrien. Show heobrien's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    "Well, if everything IS legit, who's taking a chance on a guy who was just the first potcher ever to get a given surgery? No-bod-y."

    Is that English? Because I'm not getting it.

    "I guess Ortiz/Mueller/Millar in 04 don't count?"

    I was tjhinking more in terms od recent history, .. like Penny Smoltz, Gagne and Jenks. 

    "Also, sorry if all our "low risk" players come from outstanding drafting..."

    Like who?  Who on the current 25 man ML roster that is making a contributution?  Scutaro, .. no that doesn't count.  Camron, .. no not him either besides he was just thrown overbaord.  

    "... rather than praying on someone else's garbage."

    Are you refering to half the RS bull pen or their bench?  

    "Are you a Steinbrenner?"

    No, but my name is Harold, ... does that count?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    "No, but my name is Harold, ... does that count?"

    Only if you're the "Boston Harold".
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon? : Colon should be suspended pending the results of the investigation.  Or his contract should be voided by MLB - in the wake of the steroid era, do you believe the responsible thing to do is to turn a blind eye when a player has a secret operation in another country?  How many players in their mid-30s will "retire" for a year, and come back playing like they did in their prime?
    Posted by slomag
    Morning Slo, and if they did that without sufficient grounds how do propose they'd make it right if no wrongdoing is found?...neither he nor the team can get that time back...admittedly depending on length of investigation...and FTR, i fault Colon for witholding..
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ---The-Babe---. Show ---The-Babe---'s posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    I am jealous that Bartolo has done so well, for the Yanquis. I am not jealous that Bartolo has done well. I am aware there is a mysteriousness to all this.  But I'm not really ready to accuse ...  that's not fair.  I never appreciated the charges against Papi that NYuck trolls love to toss around here.   If he gets his career back I can only be happy for him.  If he chooses to stay with the NYucks only builds into the rivalry. 
    Posted by SinceYaz

    It's not just Yankee fans.......

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    The end result is MLB knows and is investigating. What that investigation finds is anyone's guess. I am sure Colon has had to do a couple of urine tests this year already so if he had tested positive for any known substances, he would already have been found out.

    If it comes back that something illegal was done, then shame on Colon. But as I see it, the Yanks have done nothing wrong here.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ---The-Babe---. Show ---The-Babe---'s posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    The end result is MLB knows and is investigating. What that investigation finds is anyone's guess. I am sure Colon has had to do a couple of urine tests this year already so if he had tested positive for any known substances, he would already have been found out. If it comes back that something illegal was done, then shame on Colon. But as I see it, the Yanks have done nothing wrong here.
    Posted by jesseyeric

    Geez jersey erica, can't you keep your word and stay in the music forum?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from whosknockin. Show whosknockin's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    Let's just get a rope and find a tree guys. You think Colon's season doesn't have all eyes on him? Think he hasn't been tested already? They have no way to test for what went on while he was out of baseball and having surgery. And he's innocent until proven guilty whether you like it or not.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from legion12941. Show legion12941's posts

    Re: Needle marked Colon?

    In Response to Re: Needle marked Colon?:
    totally agree, no player has ever come back and had a season like thisIt is impossible for a clean athlete to recover from injuries and be this good
    Posted by can-you-dig-it


    Check out Tommy John's stats before his famous surgery in 1974 and compare his stas after he came back.

    He rehabbed for more than a year and returned in 1976 and pitched 25% more innings than he did in 1974.

    By 1977, TJ was 2nd in the Cy Young Award ballotting. In 1978, he was 8th in the CYA ballotting and 2nd again in 1979.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnto01.shtml

    Tommy John surgery was new procedure then and produced great results. Perhaps we should give this new procedure some time and get a little more evidence before we come out with charges that Colon used PEDs.


     
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