Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    Trying to (hopefully) predict where our young ball players will be when they move out of the 20-21 age bracket, is interesting conversation. And digging into old stats can make the conversation even more interesting. Try these on for size, because if we’re going to compare, you need a crystal ball to compare Bradley to Ellsbury or Middlebrooks to Boegarts. I made some comparisons to the best:

    1. In Ted Williams first two years in the biggies, he had 11 and 14 triples, respectively. Then in 1941 he hit 3 and then 5 in 1942. (?) He never got into double figures, in triples, after those first two years. I think I know the answer, but I’d like to hear some of your thoughts.

    2. In 1939, he had his 21st birthday in August. That year (his first), he hit .327, had 31 home runs, and drove in 145! The 145 is most interesting, because he played in 149 games---so, almost one RBI/game!

    3. In 1941, his 3rd year, he drew 147 walks AND STRUCK OUT 27 times!!! Today, Sports Center makes a big deal out of how so few players (incl. Pedroia) getting more BB than K’s. Whoa, Nellie. Why, that kind of disparity? The advent of the slider? Maybe Teddy ate more carrots. Think about it, Williams fanned about ONCE A WEEK

    By the way, there was never a doubt about what we had, from the Kid’s first at bat. (actually, even befire that! The fans had been rooting for Collins and Cronin to bring him up for more than a year (sound familiar?)

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    This is always an unfair comparison.

    I believe this practice should stop.

    It would be like comparing new Rock bands to The Beatles or Rolling Stones.

    or comparing a rookie in the NHL to Bobby Orr or Wayne Gretzky.

    or comparing a Democratic president to FDR.

    or comparing a young Comedian to George Carlin.

    or comparing any action movie to Raiders of the Lost Ark.

    or comparing any T.V. show to the original Star Trek.

    Whne something is without doubt the best ever, comparing anything to it is just so unfair.

    "There are lots of people who mistake their imagination for their memory.-Josh Billings

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame


    The triples thing is interesting.  Maybe they played him deeper or had started to shift toward RF, although I thought the Boudrea shift didn't happen until after WW II. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    Jackie Bradley is the next Teddy Ballgame.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    This is always an unfair comparison.

    I believe this practice should stop.

    It would be like comparing new Rock bands to The Beatles or Rolling Stones.

    or comparing a rookie in the NHL to Bobby Orr or Wayne Gretzky.

    or comparing a Democratic president to FDR.

    or comparing a young Comedian to George Carlin.

    or comparing any action movie to Raiders of the Lost Ark.

    or comparing any T.V. show to the original Star Trek.

    Whne something is without doubt the best ever, comparing anything to it is just so unfair.

    "There are lots of people who mistake their imagination for their memory.-Josh Billings




    Or comparing any poster on here to a manager, Gm, Owner

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    In response to SpacemanEephus's comment:

    Jackie Bradley is the next Teddy Ballgame.

    BINGO  !!!!!!!


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

     

    This is always an unfair comparison.

    I believe this practice should stop.

    It would be like comparing new Rock bands to The Beatles or Rolling Stones.

    or comparing a rookie in the NHL to Bobby Orr or Wayne Gretzky.

    or comparing a Democratic president to FDR.

    or comparing a young Comedian to George Carlin.

    or comparing any action movie to Raiders of the Lost Ark.

    or comparing any T.V. show to the original Star Trek.

    Whne something is without doubt the best ever, comparing anything to it is just so unfair.

    "There are lots of people who mistake their imagination for their memory.-Josh Billings

     



    I like comparisons when they use Venn Diagrams.  It's not about the comparisons so much as it is about the visual which makes me nostalgic for my old elementary school math textbooks.

     

     

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    Trying to (hopefully) predict where our young ball players will be when they move out of the 20-21 age bracket, is interesting conversation. And digging into old stats can make the conversation even more interesting. Try these on for size, because if we’re going to compare, you need a crystal ball to compare Bradley to Ellsbury or Middlebrooks to Boegarts. I made some comparisons to the best:

    1. In Ted Williams first two years in the biggies, he had 11 and 14 triples, respectively. Then in 1941 he hit 3 and then 5 in 1942. (?) He never got into double figures, in triples, after those first two years. I think I know the answer, but I’d like to hear some of your thoughts.

    2. In 1939, he had his 21st birthday in August. That year (his first), he hit .327, had 31 home runs, and drove in 145! The 145 is most interesting, because he played in 149 games---so, almost one RBI/game!

    3. In 1941, his 3rd year, he drew 147 walks AND STRUCK OUT 27 times!!! Today, Sports Center makes a big deal out of how so few players (incl. Pedroia) getting more BB than K’s. Whoa, Nellie. Why, that kind of disparity? The advent of the slider? Maybe Teddy ate more carrots. Think about it, Williams fanned about ONCE A WEEK

    By the way, there was never a doubt about what we had, from the Kid’s first at bat. (actually, even befire that! The fans had been rooting for Collins and Cronin to bring him up for more than a year (sound familiar?)



    You peaked my curiosity so I checked.
    9 of those tripels in 1838 and 1940 game in 2 parks, 5 in 19 games in Phillys Shibe park and 4 in 22 games at Old Comiskey. Shibe Park was almost 470 feet to centerfield and Old Comiskey while 420 to center was over 360 down each foul line.....so lots of time to run when you got it past the OF's,,,,,TW was 2 for 3 stealing in 1939 and 4 for 8 stelaing in 1940 so it wasnt becuase he was a speedster.....1o more of his triples came in 150 home games in those 2 years....and the bulpen was built in 1940 which shortened the distance to the wall by 23 feet, specificaly to ehlp Ted and other Sox LHH hit more hrs, which is why it was nicknamed Williamsburg....that seems to explain them

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:

    Trying to (hopefully) predict where our young ball players will be when they move out of the 20-21 age bracket, is interesting conversation. And digging into old stats can make the conversation even more interesting. Try these on for size, because if we’re going to compare, you need a crystal ball to compare Bradley to Ellsbury or Middlebrooks to Boegarts. I made some comparisons to the best:

    1. In Ted Williams first two years in the biggies, he had 11 and 14 triples, respectively. Then in 1941 he hit 3 and then 5 in 1942. (?) He never got into double figures, in triples, after those first two years. I think I know the answer, but I’d like to hear some of your thoughts.

    2. In 1939, he had his 21st birthday in August. That year (his first), he hit .327, had 31 home runs, and drove in 145! The 145 is most interesting, because he played in 149 games---so, almost one RBI/game!

    3. In 1941, his 3rd year, he drew 147 walks AND STRUCK OUT 27 times!!! Today, Sports Center makes a big deal out of how so few players (incl. Pedroia) getting more BB than K’s. Whoa, Nellie. Why, that kind of disparity? The advent of the slider? Maybe Teddy ate more carrots. Think about it, Williams fanned about ONCE A WEEK

    By the way, there was never a doubt about what we had, from the Kid’s first at bat. (actually, even befire that! The fans had been rooting for Collins and Cronin to bring him up for more than a year (sound familiar?)


    I am old enough to have seen Teddy play many games. After Korea, he made a farce out of spring training. Whether anyone believes it or not, he was the greatest ever. I grew up in Detroit where the fans adored him. During BP the right field stands would be packed way before the game started. When the great man took BPevery thing came to a halt. No vendors, no players running in the OF. Fans would scream and count the home run numbers in unison 1,2,3,4, up to double figures. You cannot compare players because no one will ever be as good as Teddyballgame. Period.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame


    The parks may have had something to do with the drop-off in triples; my theory (and it's just a theory) is that it often was not worth the risk. Call it "maturing".

    However, I have always thought that, aside from the unbelievable .406, the number of BB vs the number of strikeouts was on-going, impressive every year (although, in later years, sometimes he struck out TWICE a week!), was just so impressive as to be virtually unbelievable.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    In response to boboinfla's comment:

    You must be close to my age; I will 89 this December (I hope). I was in the Army from 3/43 to 9/48, so could only follow his early post-war career thru Stars and Stripes. But every day, from 1946 until I got home (Somerville), someone would ask me "how'd Ted do today?"

    In response to bosoxmal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Trying to (hopefully) predict where our young ball players will be when they move out of the 20-21 age bracket, is interesting conversation. And digging into old stats can make the conversation even more interesting. Try these on for size, because if we’re going to compare, you need a crystal ball to compare Bradley to Ellsbury or Middlebrooks to Boegarts. I made some comparisons to the best:

    1. In Ted Williams first two years in the biggies, he had 11 and 14 triples, respectively. Then in 1941 he hit 3 and then 5 in 1942. (?) He never got into double figures, in triples, after those first two years. I think I know the answer, but I’d like to hear some of your thoughts.

    2. In 1939, he had his 21st birthday in August. That year (his first), he hit .327, had 31 home runs, and drove in 145! The 145 is most interesting, because he played in 149 games---so, almost one RBI/game!

    3. In 1941, his 3rd year, he drew 147 walks AND STRUCK OUT 27 times!!! Today, Sports Center makes a big deal out of how so few players (incl. Pedroia) getting more BB than K’s. Whoa, Nellie. Why, that kind of disparity? The advent of the slider? Maybe Teddy ate more carrots. Think about it, Williams fanned about ONCE A WEEK

    By the way, there was never a doubt about what we had, from the Kid’s first at bat. (actually, even befire that! The fans had been rooting for Collins and Cronin to bring him up for more than a year (sound familiar?)

     


    I am old enough to have seen Teddy play many games. After Korea, he made a farce out of spring training. Whether anyone believes it or not, he was the greatest ever. I grew up in Detroit where the fans adored him. During BP the right field stands would be packed way before the game started. When the great man took BPevery thing came to a halt. No vendors, no players running in the OF. Fans would scream and count the home run numbers in unison 1,2,3,4, up to double figures. You cannot compare players because no one will ever be as good as Teddyballgame. Period.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gravelten4. Show Gravelten4's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    First let me say...great post. I love this kind of stuff. Its so refreshing to see a different topic now and again.

     

    Second, number 3 is SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK.

    Coincidently I have been researching and tracking k's recently and how a sub 100 K season is very rare for a power hitter.(most hitters actually)   guys like cargo, Cruz, goldschmidt, longoria, votto....all 75-100 right now.   Right now about the best your gonna get for high homer-low k stats are from players like Ortiz, encarnacion,beltre, pujols...I would slip miggy in there as well though he is probably going to finish with 115+ k's...who cares with that kind of production!!!!

    27 is absurd.

     

    Nice work bosoxmal.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame


    I never saw him but my dad did.  Any opinions on what made him so good? 














     

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    This thread is a very cool and goes down a different road from all the other threads. Thats a good thing.. TW was the best, for sure. Although I dont think you can compare ANY player to him, this thread makes you think and reveals some unbelieveable stats from the all time BEST hitter in baseball and just how much better he was...Good job bosox and thank you for your service.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:

    Maybe he had the triples because he was young and determined to run hard and then realised home-runs were more fun .....  and you didn't have to run so fast.  Smile


    Or break a leg sliding into 3rd. We've all seen the famous clip of him running out the game winning home run in the All Star game; that was also Teddy the first couple of years. Later, the fans got on him (spurred on by the writers) for not running into walls, or diving for line drives after he wised up and realized the importance of staying healthy.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    In response to Gravelten4's comment:

    First let me say...great post. I love this kind of stuff. Its so refreshing to see a different topic now and again.

     

    Second, number 3 is SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK.

    Coincidently I have been researching and tracking k's recently and how a sub 100 K season is very rare for a power hitter.(most hitters actually)   guys like cargo, Cruz, goldschmidt, longoria, votto....all 75-100 right now.   Right now about the best your gonna get for high homer-low k stats are from players like Ortiz, encarnacion,beltre, pujols...I would slip miggy in there as well though he is probably going to finish with 115+ k's...who cares with that kind of production!!!!

    27 is absurd.

     

    Nice work bosoxmal.


    Thank you!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    For one thing, his eyesight was thought to be, literally, off the charts. For another, if you watch old pictures of his swing, he had an upper body turn (like a Korean lady golfer). He also seemed to get into the heads of pitchers, and "knew" what they were goig to throw, and when. When Boudreau came up with the shift, it was like sending him a telegram saying, "we're goig to pitch you inside". That was fine with him. He didn't try to slice them into left, like they thought he would.


    I never saw him but my dad did.  Any opinions on what made him so good? 














     




     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame


    The Sox have no young ballplayers to compare to Ted Williams.

    None.

    Neither does anyone else.

    The only offensive ballplayer I see in the game today putting up numbers comparable to the all-time greats is Miquel Cabrera who is currently in a class by himself.

    But he isn't hitting .406.

    The only player who currently stands in Cabrera's way for back to back triple crowns is Chris Davis and only by 5 homeruns with a half of a season left.

    Hornsby and Ted are the only players in the entire history of the game who ever won the award more than one time each, both attained two but not in back to back seasons.

    Back to back triple crowns is unheard of, Cabrera would be in a class by himself for all-time if he were to accomplish back to back triple crown seasons.

    That some here mention Papi who is having a great year himself as MVP with the season Cabrera is having is laughable.

    Look at Cabrera's numbers rated not just in the AL but all of baseball:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/year/2013/seasontype/2

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: Comparing Young Phenoms to Teddy Ballgame

    In response to 67redsox's comment:


    I never saw him but my dad did.  Any opinions on what made him so good? 






    Eyes. He had the greates eyesight and when entering the Marines, he had his eyes checked twice because the first doc couldn't believe his own diagnosis. Also, when Ted competed in what is now known as Top Gun, he shot the most targets ever recorded,which is why he is in the Marine HOF and also was called by John Glenn as the best pilot he ever saw.

     This is probably the most enjoyable thread I have ever contributed to. I was fortunate enough to meet meet the Great Man ( Leigh Montville) on a few occasions and he was absolutely engaging. "The Natural" was Robert Redford's way of paying some tribute to Ted as he describes on the HBO special narrated by Liev Schrieber.









     




     
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