Compensation and Trades

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Compensation and Trades

    The thing that amazes me about the Red Sox Management is that when they have a player that a team has an interest in they never get the team to give up that top player they need to get. Theo should have been held up by this team until the hapless Cubs gave up a coveted player. The Cubs would have given their lungs to get Theo over a year earlier than later. We blew that one. When we had David Wells in 2006 we needed a top catcher and were interested in a top prospect from the Dodgers we again sold low hen we had the "hammer" and gave him away for George Kottaras who did not make it with us. Then we had Joel Piniero that teams needed and wanted and we basically gave him away for nothing. Its jsut something that I have noticed over the years but when we need a player they want our lungs from us and we comply like meek mice.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    The Dodgers wanted Wells, but were reluctant to surrender a worthwhile prospect, which was why the deal fell through.  The Sox asked for James Loney, and the Dodgers refused.

    Loney hasn't turned out much better than Kottaras, despite Dodger fan insistence that he is the second coming of Jeff Bagwell....

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    In Response to Compensation and Trades:
    [QUOTE]The thing that amazes me about the Red Sox Management is that when they have a player that a team has an interest in they never get the team to give up that top player they need to get. Theo should have been held up by this team until the hapless Cubs gave up a coveted player. The Cubs would have given their lungs to get Theo over a year earlier than later. We blew that one. When we had David Wells in 2006 we needed a top catcher and were interested in a top prospect from the Dodgers we again sold low hen we had the "hammer" and gave him away for George Kottaras who did not make it with us. Then we had Joel Piniero that teams needed and wanted and we basically gave him away for nothing. Its jsut something that I have noticed over the years but when we need a player they want our lungs from us and we comply like meek mice.
    Posted by AL34[/QUOTE]
    The Red Sox traded spare parts for Mark Melancon, Andrew Bailey and Ryan Sweeney (and three uncertain prospects for Adrian Gonzalez). Hardly the work of meek mice.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    we look like a//oles on this compensation issue.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    In Response to Re: Compensation and Trades:
    [QUOTE]we look like a//oles on this compensation issue.
    Posted by AL34[/QUOTE]
    For getting a higher-ranked prospect than the Twins received in 1994 when general manager Andy MacPhail left to become president and CEO of the Cubs?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    Kottaras was once rated pretty highly.

    There was no gun to hold to the Cubs head, since Theo was never going to come back as the Sox GM under any circumstance. Everyone knew that, and that is why the Sox gave the Cubs the right to talk with Theo. The fact that they did that told the world, he wasn't wanted here anymore. The value plummets.

    It's like when a star player demands a trade or he'll sit out, the return is never what he is worth.

    hill is right: we got more than the past precedent indicated we'd get. I never expected anything more, even though I liked Theo. I know those of you who loved Theo and thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, expected more, but the choice was really No Theo and nothing or No Theo and another Andrew Miller.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tripleb2066. Show tripleb2066's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    How can you even judge this until the ptbnl (s) are sorted out? This has to get better.... right?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    For all the folks here who weren't happy with the compensation the Sox received the deal isn't done Carpenter is definately a member of the Sox but there is a second part to the trade as there is one more player going each way. I'm betting the players involved in the ptbnl part of the trade will be a guy from each organiztion who has no options left.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    In Response to Re: Compensation and Trades:
    [QUOTE]For all the folks here who weren't happy with the compensation the Sox received the deal isn't done Carpenter is definately a member of the Sox but there is a second part to the trade as there is one more player going each way. I'm betting the players involved in the ptbnl part of the trade will be a guy from each organiztion who has no options left.
    Posted by sportsbozo1[/QUOTE]
    Could very well be, but it won't be a difference maker-type player.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sday4x4. Show sday4x4's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    so much for "significant".....thanks Theo
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    I could see it being MLB calibre performers--Andrew Miller/ Michael Bowden.
    Cubs perhaps someone like Marlon Byrd/ Reed Johnson---someone from both teams out of options that might be able to help each team..
    Probably wrong but otherwise why bother with PTBNL in the deal.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    In Response to Compensation and Trades:
    [QUOTE]The thing that amazes me about the Red Sox Management is that when they have a player that a team has an interest in they never get the team to give up that top player they need to get. Theo should have been held up by this team until the hapless Cubs gave up a coveted player. The Cubs would have given their lungs to get Theo over a year earlier than later. We blew that one. When we had David Wells in 2006 we needed a top catcher and were interested in a top prospect from the Dodgers we again sold low hen we had the "hammer" and gave him away for George Kottaras who did not make it with us. Then we had Joel Piniero that teams needed and wanted and we basically gave him away for nothing. Its jsut something that I have noticed over the years but when we need a player they want our lungs from us and we comply like meek mice.
    Posted by AL34[/QUOTE]

    Pineiro had no value.  First, he signed with us as a FA.  If someone really wanted him, they'd have signed him instead of trading for him.  Then he had a bad year.  At that point, he had three successive years of 5.62, 6.37 and 5.03.

    He was worth nothing.  If memory serves me correctly, we ate his entire contract.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    All of the media articles in the last two months stated that the Red Sox should not expect much at all on the compensation for Theo. It was based on precedent and Theo being a lawyer was correct. Look beyond your gut feeling, blind passion, and impulsive opinions that the FO is always wrong. Read first and then comment.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    In response to "Re: Compensation and Trades": [QUOTE]All of the media articles in the last two months stated that the Red Sox should not expect much at all on the compensation for Theo. It was based on precedent and Theo being a lawyer was correct. Look beyond your gut feeling, blind passion, and impulsive opinions that the FO is always wrong. Read first and then comment. Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE] "Read first and then comment." Lol...That's like saying, "Ask questions, shoot later" on this board...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    In Response to Re: Compensation and Trades:
    [QUOTE]All of the media articles in the last two months stated that the Red Sox should not expect much at all on the compensation for Theo. It was based on precedent and Theo being a lawyer was correct. Look beyond your gut feeling, blind passion, and impulsive opinions that the FO is always wrong. Read first and then comment.
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Nah, just make a decision, then look for the rationale that will support it.  If necessary, make up the rationale.

    I was here when opinion was running against Pineiro at about 99%.  Everyone just wanted him dropped.  He couldn't have pitched any worse.  Only now do I find out he had real value, even though no one claimed him off of waivers.

    Wells had a 4.98 when we traded him.  There was a month left in the season.  We couldn't even trade him without going through waivers.  He was 43.

    Overpaid and under-performing players are not as valuble as they seem.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    My issue is this deal could have been done months ago when you look at the player involved and I agree the ptbnl's are likely players out of options or guys who at some point in spring training it is obvious won't make the respective teams but could be helpful to the opposite teams involved. Obviously the Sox did not get the level (anywhere near it really) of compensation they expected to however.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    If they really didn't get "anywhere near... compensation they expected", then they would have held Theo back and bargained for it.

    Guys, Theo was not coming back. Right or wrong, they let the whole world know it. That took away any leverage they might have had.

    It's over.

    Good bye Theo.

    Let's move on. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    but the choice was really No Theo and nothing or No Theo and another Andrew Miller.

    Given how pitiful InEpstein was, Henry should have paid to get him out of town. 3 years and a half a billion for zero playoff wins is the Theo legacy. Duqeutte and Luchino were the forces behind the 2004 and 2007 titles. The Gorilla wanted more authority and, unfortunately, Luchino gave him more authority.

    InEpstein wanted a new contract, his contract about to run into the final year. Obviously, there was no way John Henry would have offered him more than a boot to the bum. InEpstein's contract extensions ended for the same reason as Varitek and Wastefield's, they stunk.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    In response to "Re: Compensation and Trades": [QUOTE]For all the folks here who weren't happy with the compensation the Sox received the deal isn't done Carpenter is definately a member of the Sox but there is a second part to the trade as there is one more player going each way. I'm betting the players involved in the ptbnl part of the trade will be a guy from each organiztion who has no options left. Posted by sportsbozo1[/QUOTE] If it involved players with no options left the deal would be done now. The delay must be due to the fact thatoneofthe players is not yet trade eligible.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    In response to "Re: Compensation and Trades": [QUOTE]If they really didn't get "anywhere near... compensation they expected", then they would have held Theo back and bargained for it. Guys, Theo was not coming back. Right or wrong, they let the whole world know it. That took away any leverage they might have had. It's over. Good bye Theo. Let's move on.  Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE] Moon, the point is Theo could have come back if he wanted to. The Sox announced they wouldn't hold Theo back it he wanted to leave, which has been common MLB practice with executives having a chance at a promotion with another club. Do you see the Padres clamor ing for compensation for Hoyer or McLeod? The Cards for Luhnow? Theo wanted to move on to a higher position, and the Sox did not stand in his way. Zero compensation should have been expected, unless a deal was made prior.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from sday4x4. Show sday4x4's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    So why did they GIVE AWAY THE LEVERAGE with Theo?

    everyone keeps saying how dumb the front office was for doing that. This team has smart baseball guys though.....if it was so obvious not to do that....why did they?
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Compensation and Trades

    In Response to Re: Compensation and Trades:
    [QUOTE]So why did they GIVE AWAY THE LEVERAGE with Theo? everyone keeps saying how dumb the front office was for doing that.   not everyone sday4x4 many felt they never had any leverage we posted over & over about it being a promotion vs a lateral move etc etc besides that, I disagree with those who thought the cubs were in dire straights to get him now vs waiting till next yr they had the new GM, theo's former right hand man  hoyer coming from SD so he could still run any big moves by theo on the qt meantime perhaps even  building fan  anticipation of the great one coming and boston was stuck paying a GM that didn't want 2B there I don't see much leverage there that said smart people do dumb things all the time This team has smart baseball guys though.....if it was so obvious not to do that....why did they?
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]That pretty much covers it. The only thing I would add is Larry needed a new lap dog as Theo was beginning to believe he was in charge.
     
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