Compensation for Theo

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MichFan. Show MichFan's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    I'm sort of glad Theo is going.  He doesn't have the guts to stick around and clean up this mess.  We don't need GM's like that.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from iamme17. Show iamme17's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    if they get a bag of used baseballs that's more than enough.....hanging on to an employee who doesn't want to be there is about as dumb as dumb gets.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bgomez. Show bgomez's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    I say go for Brett Jackson. If not, go for Bryan LaHair.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo:
    I say go for Brett Jackson. If not, go for Bryan LaHair.
    Posted by bgomez


    Bryan LaHair turns 29 in 3 weeks and has a whopping 65 at-bats in his career.  You really want this guy?  He has Nippon Ham Fighters written all over his future.

    Though he is from Worcester, so he can't be all bad.

    I think Sean Marshall makes sense.  The Cubs aren't going to compete in 2012, and then Marshall departs via free agency.  Why not give up something you are going to lose anyway?  Especially with the CBA expiring in December, and compensation picks likely to be on the bargaining table.  Particularly compensation picks for relievers, which the players union will DEFINITELY want reviewed and modified.

    I have no idea why Ricketts refuses to give up a major leaguer.  Does he know that his team went 71-91 last year?  He shoud be unloading a lot of guys and not passing up opportunities to do so...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    Theo, Lackey, and Jenks for nothing.

    Theo should be forced to bring one of lackey or CC with him as punishment. (LOL)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    In Response to Compensation for Theo:
    Personally, I am more than glad to see Theo go. I think the adoration for him is misguided and not deserved. However, the Cubs want him alot more than I want him gone. With that said, the hell with tradition! Tradition was lost on this team as they became the Boston Black Sox drinking, non-working bums! I want the Sox to ask for the moon!!! Get rid of Lackley and Crawford and Youk and get there best pitcher and there shortstop. So what if the deal does not get done. Theo will be pissed and shoved in a small office closet to sulk and the Red Sox will not lose a thing. Gettting a prospect or cash doesnt work for me. Who cares about Theo. Get all the Cubs have or forget it. What do you guys/girls think, isnt it about time we grew some you know what?????
    Posted by teddybaseball009


    So much for appreciation.

    Gag.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    Just getting rid of InEpstein is compensation enough. Ownership never intended to extend Epstein, and are playing this beautifully!  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    Just getting rid of InEpstein is compensation enough. Ownership never intended to extend Epstein, and are playing this beautifully!  
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo:
    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo : You completely miss the point. The Cubs want Theo far more than the Red Sox, whether you agree or not, you must be able to see that! I want to take advantage of this fact and I want to disregard all the niceities about baseball traditions. We got screwed by our management and players so lets forget about niceities, OK? Get something worthwhile to let Theo go, as you love him that must make sense to you. Make Chicago take on contracts we do not want and give us Garza or we keep the guy you love. That is the point. Sometimes I wonder when I was saying the sox were out of it when there was only a 1% chance I was right but I WAS RIGHT, no one on this board has any regard for my opinion. The Red Sox have nothing to lose by getting something meaningful. Certainly you can see that.
    Posted by teddybaseball009

    Plenty of highly qualified general manager candidates are available. The Cubs ownership might not share the media frenzy surrounding Theo Epstein. The second choice is often the better choice.

    Perhaps the Cubs could move negotiations along be leaking information that they've requested permission to speak with Texas assistant GM Thad Levine about the Chicago opening.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo:
    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo : You completely miss the point. The Cubs want Theo far more than the Red Sox, whether you agree or not, you must be able to see that! I want to take advantage of this fact and I want to disregard all the niceities about baseball traditions. We got screwed by our management and players so lets forget about niceities, OK? Get something worthwhile to let Theo go, as you love him that must make sense to you. Make Chicago take on contracts we do not want and give us Garza or we keep the guy you love. That is the point. Sometimes I wonder when I was saying the sox were out of it when there was only a 1% chance I was right but I WAS RIGHT, no one on this board has any regard for my opinion. The Red Sox have nothing to lose by getting something meaningful. Certainly you can see that.
    Posted by teddybaseball009


    This was true then and also now.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    JMO, but it looks like the Cubs want our GM, head trainer and vp of baseball ops. That should be at least worth Matt Garza.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinjin5000. Show sinjin5000's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    you have to look at this is a business sense, what if elsbury wanted to go to the cubs and take petey with him? would you let them go just becuase they didn't want to stay here? 

    no, you woud try and trade them for the most you could get, and if you can't get what you want, then they have to stay

    a contract is a contract, you don't allow someone to break one with being compensated, if the cubs want him, then pay up, theo made his decision, it's not the RS responsibility to make it easy for him.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    It's just business. Sox are trying to get as much in return as they can.  Makes perfect sense to do that. Eventually , there will be an agreement that satisfies both sides. Probably be a couple of decent , but not great , prospects and some cash. It is not realistic to expect that the Cubs would give up Garza for Lackey. That is just wishful thinking.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from heobrien. Show heobrien's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo:
    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo : You completely miss the point. The Cubs want Theo far more than the Red Sox, whether you agree or not, you must be able to see that! I want to take advantage of this fact and I want to disregard all the niceities about baseball traditions. We got screwed by our management and players so lets forget about niceities, OK? Get something worthwhile to let Theo go, as you love him that must make sense to you. Make Chicago take on contracts we do not want and give us Garza or we keep the guy you love. That is the point. Sometimes I wonder when I was saying the sox were out of it when there was only a 1% chance I was right but I WAS RIGHT, no one on this board has any regard for my opinion. The Red Sox have nothing to lose by getting something meaningful. Certainly you can see that.
    Posted by teddybaseball009

    I think you are WAY over estimating Epstein's value to the Cubs.  They might well see him as an excellent GM and one they surely want but that does eliminate the possibility that they have other candidates on their radar.  I'm sure it occurred to them that Epstein night not be an option as he's under contract to the RS until next year.  

    The idea that the Cubs are going to give up a good pitcher and eat bad contracts is naive at best.  At some point the Cubs may well go in a different direction.  They can't go much further into the off season without a GM in place.  If they pull the plug on Epstein, then what?  The RS bring Epstein back as GM?  Not likely.  Most likely they'll pay him for the year, which they certainly can afford, but they'll look foolish over playing their hand.  They are risking doing yet more harm to the RS reputation for little or no gain.  Frankly that comes across as a bit petty and retaliatory.  They will be seen as rich guys with more money than baseball sense.  Which is in fact what they are. 

    The worse part of all this is that there really doesn't need to be a villain here.  For whatever reason, Epstein doesn't think working for the RS is a good idea.  Then let him move on so the RS can move on.  All this talk of holding up the deal and making the Cubs do anything is more about retribution than good baseball business sense.  The longer this goes on the harder it will be on the Cubs, .. to a point.  But, the longer this goes on the worse the RS look.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    I think I would put my foot down and say brett jackson and a solid AA starting pitcher is the floor.  I would try for more, like assuming lackey, or at least lackey for gaza...something like that.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo:
    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo : I think you are WAY over estimating Epstein's value to the Cubs.  They might well see him as an excellent GM and one they surely want but that does eliminate the possibility that they have other candidates on their radar.  I'm sure it occurred to them that Epstein night not be an option as he's under contract to the RS until next year.   The idea that the Cubs are going to give up a good pitcher and eat bad contracts is naive at best.  At some point the Cubs may well go in a different direction.  They can't go much further into the off season without a GM in place.  If they pull the plug on Epstein, then what?  The RS bring Epstein back as GM?  Not likely.  Most likely they'll pay him for the year, which they certainly can afford, but they'll look foolish over playing their hand.  They are risking doing yet more harm to the RS reputation for little or no gain.  Frankly that comes across as a bit petty and retaliatory.  They will be seen as rich guys with more money than baseball sense.  Which is in fact what they are.  The worse part of all this is that there really doesn't need to be a villain here.  For whatever reason, Epstein doesn't think working for the RS is a good idea.  Then let him move on so the RS can move on.  All this talk of holding up the deal and making the Cubs do anything is more about retribution than good baseball business sense.  The longer this goes on the harder it will be on the Cubs, .. to a point.  But, the longer this goes on the worse the RS look.
    Posted by heobrien
    What do you suppose Steinbrenner would have asked for in a case like this? And please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that he would have just let Gene Michael or Brian Cashman walk.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jb12bb. Show jb12bb's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    If im the RS and Cherington I am accepting no less then two of the top six prospects for Theo.  The CF I dont think they want.  I think they are looking for pitching and close to Major Leauge pitching at that.

    The Cubs are not filled with talent, but grabbing two top pitching prospects would help boost a thin Sox pitching system that is specially thin at the upper A levels.

    The Sox will stretch this out for as long as they need and will get some good prospects in the end.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    The Sox can ask for what they want, Chicago basically released this to their fans already.  Tough luck for them, the Sox aren't letting Theo out of his CONTRACT and letting him take CURRENT SOX FRONT OFFICE PEOPLE unless the Cubs compensate.   

    But that is why the Cubs are the Cubs.   Suckas!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickEO. Show RickEO's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

     Theo and Jose Iglesias for Starlin Castro. They need a GM , we need a SS. If that doesnt cut it , then you have to take Lackey.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo:
    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo : I think you are WAY over estimating Epstein's value to the Cubs.  They might well see him as an excellent GM and one they surely want but that does eliminate the possibility that they have other candidates on their radar.  I'm sure it occurred to them that Epstein night not be an option as he's under contract to the RS until next year.   The idea that the Cubs are going to give up a good pitcher and eat bad contracts is naive at best.  At some point the Cubs may well go in a different direction.  They can't go much further into the off season without a GM in place.  If they pull the plug on Epstein, then what?  The RS bring Epstein back as GM?  Not likely.  Most likely they'll pay him for the year, which they certainly can afford, but they'll look foolish over playing their hand.  They are risking doing yet more harm to the RS reputation for little or no gain.  Frankly that comes across as a bit petty and retaliatory.  They will be seen as rich guys with more money than baseball sense.  Which is in fact what they are.  The worse part of all this is that there really doesn't need to be a villain here.  For whatever reason, Epstein doesn't think working for the RS is a good idea.  Then let him move on so the RS can move on.  All this talk of holding up the deal and making the Cubs do anything is more about retribution than good baseball business sense.  The longer this goes on the harder it will be on the Cubs, .. to a point.  But, the longer this goes on the worse the RS look.
    Posted by heobrien
    I agree that the Cubs aren't going to eat bad contracts or give up a quality MLB player.

    But you are wrong as can be about just letting the Cubs have Epstein. Yes there are probably a lot of assistant GMs out there who can do a really solid job and for less $$$ than Epstein will cost.

    But IMO Epstein has attraction to the Cubs for a few reasons. Epstein is a brand and a brand the hapless Cubs can use. The brand and the facts may not perfectly align but he is the man who ended The Curse of the Bambino. And then of course as a rule the GM is likely to be able to pull more associates with him to his new destination. So when you get an established GM and make him President, he has more titles to pass around and the brain injection factor into your operation improves.

    Now if Ozzie Gullien who is a loose cannon and a field manager is worthy of two prospects in exchange for his release, then a GM with Epstein's brand is at least worth the same.

    What I am about to say I do not say because I am a RS fan because I just posted in another thread recently that the Rangers should have been taken to the woodshed for the leak that came out of their organization that they would be in on CC Sabathia if he opted out.

    The Cubs did not operate at the highest ethical level in all of this. Leaking that they wanted Epstein to be their next President at the end of the year with two months left in the season was wrong.

    Now they should not have to "pay" extra for that but the Guillen gives precedent for them not just writing a check and moving on with Epstein and whatever percentage of his staff he can draw to the Cubs.


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from heobrien. Show heobrien's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo:
    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo : What do you suppose Steinbrenner would have asked for in a case like this? And please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that he would have just let Gene Michael or Brian Cashman walk.
    Posted by carnie


    "...just let Gene Michael or Brian Cashman walk."

    No he'd likely just fired Cashman and I think he owns Michaels soul because he been with the Yankees since before Steinbrenner.

    Steinbrenner and the Yankees are not the point here.  The point is the RS look rudderless and seem to be missing the big picture.  The performance at the end of last season was historically poor.  The manager essentially walked away and now the GM is too.  How do the RS owners respond?  By playing hard ball for compensation for their GM.  Something that historically doesn't warrant significant compensation.  It's like they dropped a pocket full of cash and change on the floor and are concerning themselves with the pennies first.  

    The RS owners have responded poorly in general but specifically from a PR stand point.  After the manager leaves then there are stories about his personal life leaked to the press.  The owner goes on radio and essentially defends Pedroia and Beckett, which makes sense and probably the correct thing to do.  But at the same time undermines a player who will be with the RS for the next six yeas to the tune of 120 mil or so.  And, the continuing narrative is compensation for a GM which is not, should nor nor will it likely be significant.  The RS need to put this behind them to move on too.  Being unrealistic about what they expect in return for Epstein doesn't help and has the potential to blow up in their collective faces.  

    Thinking that the Cubs did not identify others potential GM candidates and might well resort to them would be foolish for the RS owners.  If this story is an accurate representation of what the Cubs are thinking and they fed up and throw in the towel on Epstein it will be yet another sorted episode in the 2011 season that the RS that will be historic but for the wrong reasons.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo:
    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo : "...just let Gene Michael or Brian Cashman walk." No he'd likely just fired Cashman and I think he owns Michaels soul because he been with the Yankees since before Steinbrenner. Steinbrenner and the Yankees are not the point here.  The point is the RS look rudderless and seem to be missing the big picture.  The performance at the end of last season was historically poor.  The manager essentially walked away and now the GM is too.  How do the RS owners respond?  By playing hard ball for compensation for their GM.  Something that historically doesn't warrant significant compensation.  It's like they dropped a pocket full of cash and change on the floor and are concerning themselves with the pennies first.   The RS owners have responded poorly in general but specifically from a PR stand point.  After the manager leaves then there are stories about his personal life leaked to the press.  The owner goes on radio and essentially defends Pedroia and Beckett, which makes sense and probably the correct thing to do.  But at the same time undermines a player who will be with the RS for the next six yeas to the tune of 120 mil or so.  And, the continuing narrative is compensation for a GM which is not, should nor nor will it likely be significant.  The RS need to put this behind them to move on too.  Being unrealistic about what they expect in return for Epstein doesn't help and has the potential to blow up in their collective faces.   Thinking that the Cubs did not identify others potential GM candidates and might well resort to them would be foolish for the RS owners.  If this story is an accurate representation of what the Cubs are thinking and they fed up and throw in the towel on Epstein it will be yet another sorted episode in the 2011 season that the RS that will be historic but for the wrong reasons.
    Posted by heobrien
    My point is that you're a Yankee fan who only seems to come on this board when you can bash the Red Sox. I brought up Steinbrenner, Stick and Cashman because I believe if the Red Sox (say) came calling about the Yankee GM along with significant people from the NYY front office Steinbrenner would have played hardball. I applaud Larry Lucchino for doing the same. If the Cubs back out, let Theo shag fouls at Fenway next year. It's no more than he deserves for trying to walk away from a mess he created.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from heobrien. Show heobrien's posts

    Re: Compensation for Theo

    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo:
    In Response to Re: Compensation for Theo : I agree that the Cubs aren't going to eat bad contracts or give up a quality MLB player. But you are wrong as can be about just letting the Cubs have Epstein. Yes there are probably a lot of assistant GMs out there who can do a really solid job and for less $$$ than Epstein will cost. But IMO Epstein has attraction to the Cubs for a few reasons. Epstein is a brand and a brand the hapless Cubs can use. The brand and the facts may not perfectly align but he is the man who ended The Curse of the Bambino. And then of course as a rule the GM is likely to be able to pull more associates with him to his new destination. So when you get an established GM and make him President, he has more titles to pass around and the brain injection factor into your operation improves. Now if Ozzie Gullien who is a loose cannon and a field manager is worthy of two prospects in exchange for his release, then a GM with Epstein's brand is at least worth the same. What I am about to say I do not say because I am a RS fan because I just posted in another thread recently that the Rangers should have been taken to the woodshed for the leak that came out of their organization that they would be in on CC Sabathia if he opted out. The Cubs did not operate at the highest ethical level in all of this. Leaking that they wanted Epstein to be their next President at the end of the year with two months left in the season was wrong. Now they should not have to "pay" extra for that but the Guillen gives precedent for them not just writing a check and moving on with Epstein and whatever percentage of his staff he can draw to the Cubs.
    Posted by fivekatz


    I agree that Epstein would instantly add credibility to the Cubs but frankly so what?

    The real point I can he deliver? I think the best GM in baseball, whoever one thinks that might be, with proper resources can only put his team in the position to win.  Get them to the playoffs regularly and hopefully they succeed.  That's why the best GMs make less than a lot of utility infielders they sign.

    All the stuff about ending the curse in Boston and the historic potential of doing so in Chicago might make for nice reading in the sports pages but again so what?  

    The RS need to look back at 2011 to see what needs to be fixed so it can be avoided in the future.  Other than that 2011 should be put in the rear view as quickly as possible.  The stories about the RS being completely unreasonable, if accurate, just add to the idea that they are not focused.  Get a prospect or two and be done with it so that the RS owners/FO can focus on the RS.
     
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