Compensation

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Compensation

    I'm not nor ever have been a TE fan. However, I do think the RS have leverage here and if they won't give us Garza, then the Cubs must acquire Lugo, Clement, Gagne, Wily Mo, and Edgar. After all, doensn't Theo need to take his baggage with him?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Compensation:
    [QUOTE]I'm not nor ever have been a TE fan. However, I do think the RS have leverage here and if they won't give us Garza, then the Cubs must acquire Lugo, Clement, Gagne, Wily Mo, and Edgar. After all, doensn't Theo need to take his baggage with him?
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    I wouldn't be surprised if Larry just says bye bye and walks away.  The Cubs have nothing to give us and Larry obviously deserves something in return for his GM.  If I were Larry it would be Garza or nothing period, especially if the Cubs are also asking for some of Theo's staff.  Give them a pitcher like Weiland who Theo felt so highly of and call it a wrap.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Re: Compensation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Compensation : I wouldn't be surprised if Larry just says bye bye and walks away.  The Cubs have nothing to give us and Larry obviously deserves something in return for his GM.  If I were Larry it would be Garza or nothing period, especially if the Cubs are also asking for some of Theo's staff.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]
    I could see the Cubs walking away and hiring the 2011 version of the 2002 Theo Epstein: a promising up-and-coming baseball executive with no GM experience.

    Cubs owner Tom Ricketts has more to gain with Cubs fans by standing up to the Red Sox than by bowing to any unreasonable Sox demands.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Re: Compensation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Compensation : I could see the Cubs walking away and hiring the 2011 version of the 2002 Theo Epstein: a promising up-and-coming baseball executive with no GM experience. Cubs owner Tom Ricketts has more to gain with Cubs fans by standing up to the Red Sox than by bowing to any unreasonable Sox demands.
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    Garza does sound a bit unreasonable Hill but the Cubs really don't have any good prospects worth grabbing.  It's a strange situation and one that Larry shouldn't be taken advantage of either. 

    Maybe the best thing is to call it off?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Compensation

    Both sides have reasons to make a deal happen. The RS collapse and early off season has already been a nightmare and getting the page turned would be preferable.

    The problem here is that the Cubs in part are so attracted to Theo because they don't have much in the way of player development. So they have very few prospects to bring to a compensation deal and they are reluctant to deal those.

    I am RS fan but I think that Garza is a non-starter.

    These are "mostly" closed door negotiations so it is hard to say but I think the negotiation is all about how many folks Epstein could take with him right away in addition to any compensation the RS would get from the Cubs.

    The Cubs know the RS would like to turn the page cleanly, the RS know that Rickett's really wants Epstein.

    In the end the answer won't be Garza. It will be dictated by the quality of the prospects and the restrictions on the Cubs ability to brain drain Yawkey Way this year beyond Theo.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Re: Compensation:
    [QUOTE]Both sides have reasons to make a deal happen. The RS collapse and early off season has already been a nightmare and getting the page turned would be preferable. The problem here is that the Cubs in part are so attracted to Theo because they don't have much in the way of player development. So they have very few prospects to bring to a compensation deal and they are reluctant to deal those. I am RS fan but I think that Garza is a non-starter. These are "mostly" closed door negotiations so it is hard to say but I think the negotiation is all about how many folks Epstein could take with him right away in addition to any compensation the RS would get from the Cubs. The Cubs know the RS would like to turn the page cleanly, the RS know that Rickett's really wants Epstein. In the end the answer won't be Garza. It will be dictated by the quality of the prospects and the restrictions on the Cubs ability to brain drain Yawkey Way this year beyond Theo.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    You could be right and without a deal, Larry and Theo will not coexist next season so either way I see Theo out of the picture entirely.  I still think it should be a no deal considering what the Cubs want from us.  Even Jackson appears to be another version of Reddick or Kalish and their top two pitching prospects throw a below average fastball.

    This could end up ugly regarding any future deals between the two clubs and Theo will need all the friends he can get to turn the Cubs around.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Compensation

    I think Jackson is the guy to get - it's not unreasonable, and while he is the same profile as Reddick / Kalish, that means any of the three are tradeable.  It's a profile that's common to Sox top prospects and current outfielders, but it's still a valuable commodity to other teams.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Re: Compensation:
    [QUOTE]I think Jackson is the guy to get - it's not unreasonable, and while he is the same profile as Reddick / Kalish, that means any of the three are tradeable.  It's a profile that's common to Sox top prospects and current outfielders, but it's still a valuable commodity to other teams.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    mags,

    The only difference is Jackson is a CF and slated as a lead off hitter but still a lefty.  Not a huge help unless we run into trouble with signing Jacoby.  Our team needs pitching badly.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenapplesplatters. Show greenapplesplatters's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Re: Compensation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Compensation : I could see the Cubs walking away and hiring the 2011 version of the 2002 Theo Epstein: a promising up-and-coming baseball executive with no GM experience. Cubs owner Tom Ricketts has more to gain with Cubs fans by standing up to the Red Sox than by bowing to any unreasonable Sox demands.
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    Couple things: First:The Cubs can easily make a deal in principle to hire Blunder after the 2012 season, in which case HenryCo. will be stuck paying him not only his annual salary to do nothing, but the $4M bonus for finishing his contract. I highly doubt they want to do that. Not to mention they've got enough problems going forward without the humiliation that will come with that result. And, they get nothing for him at all but a season-long running joke. They don't want this.

    Secnd: If you read the SI piece, Blunder himself admitted that pretty much every team but two  (Cubs being one) have implemented if not the same, but a similar system to the one being used in Boston. So yes, the Cubs can walk away and find an equal, if not better candidate. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Re: Compensation:
    [QUOTE]I think Jackson is the guy to get - it's not unreasonable, and while he is the same profile as Reddick / Kalish, that means any of the three are tradeable.  It's a profile that's common to Sox top prospects and current outfielders, but it's still a valuable commodity to other teams.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Maybe we could trade Jackson to the Cubs for Garza :)

    I agree with your point, if Jackson is the only guy the Sox see in the Cubs system as any real compensation then that is the guy they should take, even though he fits in the Reddick/Kalish mold.  If the Cubs think he is a MLB ready player than he has trade value to someone.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Compensation

    Let's not forget that Cashman may be on the market as well and the Cubs may just bide their time and look to see what happens with that. If the Sox get too greedy, it just might bite them in the rear.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Re: Compensation:
    [QUOTE]Both sides have reasons to make a deal happen. The RS collapse and early off season has already been a nightmare and getting the page turned would be preferable. The problem here is that the Cubs in part are so attracted to Theo because they don't have much in the way of player development. So they have very few prospects to bring to a compensation deal and they are reluctant to deal those. I am RS fan but I think that Garza is a non-starter. These are "mostly" closed door negotiations so it is hard to say but I think the negotiation is all about how many folks Epstein could take with him right away in addition to any compensation the RS would get from the Cubs. The Cubs know the RS would like to turn the page cleanly, the RS know that Rickett's really wants Epstein. In the end the answer won't be Garza. It will be dictated by the quality of the prospects and the restrictions on the Cubs ability to brain drain Yawkey Way this year beyond Theo.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    5K LAST NIGHT ON BOSTON COMCAST SPORTS, SEAN MCADAMS REPORTED THE SOX OPENED NEGOTIATIONS ASKING FOR GARZA, CUBS COUNTERED WITH  CASH, LL ASKED FOR PROSPECTS. THEY OFFERED THEIR #1 PITCHING PROSPECT, MCNUTT AND HAVE SINCE OFFERED ANOTHER LESSER PROSPECT. AS FAR AS THE EXECUTIVES GO, THE CUBS DID ASK THEY FOLLOW THEO. THE SOX SAID THEY WANTED CHARINGTON TO BE IN FAMILIAR SURROUNDINGS WHILE HE MADE THE TRANSITION. LAST NIGHT HE REPORTED THE TALKS WERE IN A DELAY, IT WAS AGREED THE EXECUTIVES WOULD STAY IN BOSTON, THIS MORNING THE SAME REPORTER, MCADAMS, LESS THAN 12 HOURS LATER, SAID NEGOTIATIONS WERE ONGOING, IT WAS STILL UNCERTAIN WHO, IF ANY OF THE EXECUTIVES WOULD STAY OR GO

    HERE IN LIES THE PROBLEM WITH THE MEDIA CIRCUS SURROUNDING ALL THIS. DOES ANYONE REALLY KNOW OR IS IT JUST A  BEST GUESS??
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Compensation

    If Garza is too much for Theo in a move, why not expand the deal on the Red Sox side, and have them include a prospect who is good enough to make the Cubs happy with the overall deal? Seems a lot easier than pinpointing the one or two prospects from the Cubs who would make the Red Sox happy...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenapplesplatters. Show greenapplesplatters's posts

    Re: Compensation

    It might be that the Sox are so furious with Blunder for having rejected their 3 year contract extension that they're willing to walk away at some point. It doesn't make sense on many levels, but how much of what's happened over there lately makes sense anyway?

    This is by far the most dysfunctional sports franchise we have seen in any sport for many many years.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjkoko. Show jjkoko's posts

    Re: Compensation

    Give them Beckett and Theo for Garza. It reduces our payroll and gets us someone who wants to pitch.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Compensation

    Part of me wants the deal to get done so the Theo bashers will go over to Yazzer's Bronx apatment to party for the rest of the winter and stay off of the forum.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Compensation

    The red sox have leverage and they should not give in until they get something worthwhile. How about taking Lackey for getting Theo.  It is not silly because if they want Theo there is a price to pay.  Don't give in Larry. Let him sit a year and eat another contract.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Re: Compensation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Compensation : mags, The only difference is Jackson is a CF and slated as a lead off hitter but still a lefty.  Not a huge help unless we run into trouble with signing Jacoby.  Our team needs pitching badly.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Trade Ells for pitching!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Compensation

    The Cubs are playing this out awfully hard in the media for a team that isn't intensely interested. If we step back for a minute all the leaks are coming out of the Chicago papers form the original "reach out" to Epstein during the season, to the conspiracy theory that LL was being vindictive to this current Byrnes theory.

    The Cubs will keep doing business with or without Epstein so nobody should over estimate the RS position.

    OTOH the RS desire not to have a major organizational brain drain when Epstein leaves should not be under estimated either. Time for the moment is on their side. Locking Epstein up for one year in bubble (effectively paying him to do nothing) would cost them $6M but it isn't applied to CBT and that may not seem like too much to RS to pay for organizational stability right now.


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Re: Compensation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Compensation : Trade Ells for pitching!
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Trade the best player on the team for nondescript "pitching."  Smart. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PapiFan. Show PapiFan's posts

    Re: Compensation

    For his faults the man was a two time championship GM who has built a great farm system.  Yes it is a little barren at the moment, but Lester, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Buchholz, Papelbon, etc. is a lot better then the Sox did from 1980 to 2001.  I don't see how it serves the Red Sox to let a team steal their successful GM and take a pile of crap talent.  Ozzie Guillen got traded for two top 10 prospects in the Marlins system.  Theo is just as valuable and probably more valuable.  To me the Cubs better be giving up Garza, Cashner, Jackson, or taking Lackey.  If the Cubs want to keep all of their top propsects and Garza, then they can take Lackey and the Cubs can give the Sox the Cubs headache in Zambrano.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PapiFan. Show PapiFan's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Re: Compensation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Compensation : Trade the best player on the team for nondescript "pitching."  Smart. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    I would not trade Ellsbury for just any pitching.  But if Seattle would trade Felix Hernandez for Ellsbury and Buchholz, then you make the deal.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: Compensation

    In Response to Re: Compensation:
    [QUOTE]Give them Beckett and Theo for Garza. It reduces our payroll and gets us someone who wants to pitch.
    Posted by jjkoko[/QUOTE]  I like this idea, can we make them take Lackey as well?
     

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