Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    Nick Carfado writes today about the conditioning of the Sox player's. or lack of conditioning as a factor in the collapse this year.

    Could this be the major reason the Sox seemingly running of gas in Sept?

    Are the player's Like Lackey, Ortiz, Gonzalez, Youkilis, etc simply out of good shape to play a 162 game  schedule?

    Is being out of shape the reason or main reason the past two years for the rash of injuries the Sox have had?

    Did they not work hard enough in spring training to prepare for the long season?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

     @ 2-10 COMING OUT OF SPRING TRAINING.....  THE "DEFENSE RESTS" !!!!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    In Response to Conditioning, Is Carfado right?:
    [QUOTE]Nick Carfado writes today about the conditioning of the Sox player's. or lack of conditioning as a factor in the collapse this year. Could this be the major reason the Sox seemingly running of gas in Sept? Are the player's Like Lackey, Ortiz, Gonzalez, Youkilis, etc simply out of good shape to play a 162 game  schedule? Is being out of shape the reason or main reason the past two years for the rash of injuries the Sox have had? Did they not work hard enough in spring training to prepare for the long season?
    Posted by peanutandme[/QUOTE]

    I have ro read the article.  This has been mentioned many times by many of us and it is probably a factor.  Many of them don't look like they have been in shape for most of the season and it also contributes to the many injuries that they have throughout the season. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    It's not just this year.

    Past 3/4 years have started slowly because they weren't physically, or mentally for that matter, ready.

    Who HASN'T been hurt this year? Just about everyone has missed time, and when it's a team wide thing, I start looking for the team wide problem.

    Management has taken their sabrmetrics too far. Pitch counts, avoiding bus trips, handling every one of these guys with kiddie gloves. I think they're trying to create a culture of JD Drews, Theo's favorite son.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from udontnojack. Show udontnojack's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    they totally wasted spring training on reading their rave reviews and making dunkin donuts commercials.meanwhile,the rays worked their b-- off on conditioning and fundamentals all spring.hopefully,sox will learn and actually do some training next spring.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    Conditioning is definately a factor, but really, there are so many more. Just pick any phase of the game here in Sept, any phase, any player (other than Ells) and you have a factor for why the Red Sox season, so promising in the beginning, has blown up right before John Henry's eyes.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

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    Could be something to it. Some of them seem to be out of gas.  Many of this year's injuries have not been the direct result of any one traumatic incident.               Just visually , quite a few players do not appear to be in the best of shape.  Conditioning could well be a problem.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

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    We should have known we were in trouble when Beckett missed two games with a stomach flue.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from GEAUX-TIGRES. Show GEAUX-TIGRES's posts

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    In Response to Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?:
    [QUOTE]Could be something to it. Some of them seem to be out of gas.  Many of this year's injuries have not been the direct result of any one traumatic incident.               Just visually , quite a few players do not appear to be in the best of shape.  Conditioning could well be a problem.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]
    Where do I apply for the strength and conditioning position? I'd meet required certifications. I'd make Pedey the program mascot and we'd get results. Too may pudge balls out there. They need to lay off the Twinkies and Sam Adams. That's my take and I'm sticking to it. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    Wakefield is in great shape. Don't let that pot belly fool you.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    Conditioning is definitely a factor, though this is something that is not on Theo or Tito or the FO.

    Players should be in shape throughout the winter.  No human gets "in shape" during six weeks of Spring Training - it's something that needs constant attention in the offseason.

    Yaz learned this lesson in 1966. I believe it was Ted Williams that dressed him down about taking responsibilty for his talent, and not sqandering it.

    Yas took it to heart, worked out rigorously in the off-season, and the rest is history.

    Short of being their mothers and personal trainers, coaxing them out of bed on those dreadful mornings in November and December, and making them eat high fiber cereal and getting them to the weight room, the FO can't do very much about keeping players in shape. It's up to the players to adopt a professional attitude, which Tito rightly assumes.

    Problem is, so many of them are just babies.  Sometimes, I think, Tito and Theo are the only adults in the room.

    Course, Theo and Tito may bear this responsibility anyway.  First, it happens on their watches.  Second, their job is to assess the psyches as well as the bodies of their players - if someone is mentally as well as physicaly lazy, then that should be noted along with otoher risk factors, such as not being able to hit the outside curve. 

    Then again, this is a post-mortem issue.  And they ain't dead yet.  Let's give them the chance to succeed before we call them failures.

    Though, given the high expectations that we all had for this season, it's hard not to be disappointed.  We will be lucky to win 90 games. Nearly everyone, including me, thought they would win upwards of 98. 

    Shows what we know.

    Here endeth the lesson.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    In Response to Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?:
    [QUOTE]Conditioning is definitely a factor, though this is something that is not on Theo or Tito or the FO. Players should be in shape throughout the winter.  No human gets "in shape" during six weeks of Spring Training - it's something that needs constant attention in the offseason. Yaz learned this lesson in 1966. I believe it was Ted Williams that dressed him down about taking responsibilty for his talent, and not sqandering it. Yas took it to heart, worked out rigorously in the off-season, and the rest is history. Short of being their mothers and personal trainers, coaxing them out of bed on those dreadful mornings in November and December, and making them eat high fiber cereal and getting them to the weight room, the FO can't do very much about keeping players in shape. It's up to the players to adopt a professional attitude, which Tito rightly assumes. Problem is, so many of them are just babies.  Sometimes, I think, Tito and Theo are the only adults in the room. Course, Theo and Tito may bear this responsibility anyway.  First, it happens on their watches.  Second, their job is to assess the psyches as well as the bodies of their players - if someone is mentally as well as physicaly lazy, then that should be noted along with otoher risk factors, such as not being able to hit the outside curve.  Then again, this is a post-mortem issue.  And they ain't dead yet.  Let's give them the chance to succeed before we call them failures. Though, given the high expectations that we all had for this season, it's hard not to be disappointed.  We will be lucky to win 90 games. Nearly everyone, including me, thought they would win upwards of 98.  Shows what we know. Here endeth the lesson.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    Great post.  I definitely agree that professional athletes in any sport need to have the motivation to continue to stay in top physical shape to excel in their sport and continue to be able to play for longer than anyone expected.  A good example of this is Ray Allen of the Celtics. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    No one's in charge of the team. hard to believe they have pitching/hitting coaches. aren't they supposed to guide players through funks and stuff?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from legion12941. Show legion12941's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/863679-boston-red-sox-habit-of-rigid-pitch-counts-and-inning-limits-proves-useless

    Interesting read
     
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    In Response to Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?:
    [QUOTE] @ 2-10 COMING OUT OF SPRING TRAINING.....  THE "DEFENSE RESTS" !!!!!
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]That would actually be the prosecution...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tang1. Show tang1's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    In Response to Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?:
    [QUOTE]No one's in charge of the team. hard to believe they have pitching/hitting coaches. aren't they supposed to guide players through funks and stuff?
    Posted by 86redsox[/QUOTE]
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tang1. Show tang1's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    sorry but you have it wrong, we have coaches and trainers and management. problem ,they are blind , there is no leadership on this team, them come in spring training 30 lbs over weight, if you wonder why the sox have so many injuries,it  is the manager, babys the players like little kids, you dont see the managers like maddon or giradi give love taps, you dont perform you dont play, simple as that.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    In Response to Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?:
    [QUOTE]Could be something to it. Some of them seem to be out of gas.  Many of this year's injuries have not been the direct result of any one traumatic incident.               Just visually , quite a few players do not appear to be in the best of shape.  Conditioning could well be a problem.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    Lloyd might have been on to something a couple of weeks ago. It's not so much that they don't do any work or condition. But perhaps they need to adjust how they condition.

    I hate going by visuals because looks can be deceiving. For example, Crawford looks well-conditioned (and probably is) was out a month with a pulled muscule. Soft-looking guys are sometimes in better shape than the buff guys.

    And there's this. Baseball is a long, grinding season and no matter how great your conditioning is, injuries happen and sometimes the only reason is simply bad luck.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    In Response to Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?:
    [QUOTE]Conditioning is definitely a factor, though this is something that is not on Theo or Tito or the FO. Players should be in shape throughout the winter.  No human gets "in shape" during six weeks of Spring Training - it's something that needs constant attention in the offseason. Yaz learned this lesson in 1966. I believe it was Ted Williams that dressed him down about taking responsibilty for his talent, and not sqandering it. Yas took it to heart, worked out rigorously in the off-season, and the rest is history. Short of being their mothers and personal trainers, coaxing them out of bed on those dreadful mornings in November and December, and making them eat high fiber cereal and getting them to the weight room, the FO can't do very much about keeping players in shape. It's up to the players to adopt a professional attitude, which Tito rightly assumes. Problem is, so many of them are just babies.  Sometimes, I think, Tito and Theo are the only adults in the room. Course, Theo and Tito may bear this responsibility anyway.  First, it happens on their watches.  Second, their job is to assess the psyches as well as the bodies of their players - if someone is mentally as well as physicaly lazy, then that should be noted along with otoher risk factors, such as not being able to hit the outside curve.  Then again, this is a post-mortem issue.  And they ain't dead yet.  Let's give them the chance to succeed before we call them failures. Though, given the high expectations that we all had for this season, it's hard not to be disappointed.  We will be lucky to win 90 games. Nearly everyone, including me, thought they would win upwards of 98.  Shows what we know. Here endeth the lesson.
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    The one thing I have to add is this. The big problem this month has been pitching. I think it snowballed and had a dominoe affect on other parts of the game, but the fact is, the Sox have now had 18 of 24 games (if I counted right) where the pitching staff has allowed more than five runs a game.

    You can have the best-conditioned team in the world and that's a lot to overcome. I've posted this before, but it has to be mentally draining on hitters when their team is down 3-0, 4-0, 5-0 by the third inning in nearly every game, often times in the first.

    And I'm not sure how much of the pitching woes have to do with how good of shape the player is in. Buchholz's injury -- I don't know how you provent his injury by conditioning better. 

    Lackey -- OK, I'll give you him. Maybe he needs to be in better shape, although he looks he same as he always did. He just stinks this year.

    Players can be in good shape and stink.

    Lester has been healthy all year. He has stunk this month but is that because he not in condition or just that he has stunk this month.

    Beckett came into this seaon in better shape, which is why he's had a strong season. When he missed a start or two earlier this month with a sprained ankle, how is that because he's not in shape.

    Miller, Weiland, Wakefield have all got rocked this month. I don't think it has anything do with the shape they're in.



     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tang1. Show tang1's posts

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    In Response to Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right? : The one thing I have to add is this. The big problem this month has been pitching. I think it snowballed and had a dominoe affect on other parts of the game, but the fact is, the Sox have now had 18 of 24 games (if I counted right) where the pitching staff has allowed more than five runs a game. You can have the best-conditioned team in the world and that's a lot to overcome. I've posted this before, but it has to be mentally draining on hitters when their team is down 3-0, 4-0, 5-0 by the third inning in nearly every game, often times in the first. And I'm not sure how much of the pitching woes have to do with how good of shape the player is in. Buchholz's injury -- I don't know how you provent his injury by conditioning better.  Lackey -- OK, I'll give you him. Maybe he needs to be in better shape, although he looks he same as he always did. He just stinks this year. Players can be in good shape and stink. Lester has been healthy all year. He has stunk this month but is that because he not in condition or just that he has stunk this month. Beckett came into this seaon in better shape, which is why he's had a strong season. When he missed a start or two earlier this month with a sprained ankle, how is that because he's not in shape. Miller, Weiland, Wakefield have all got rocked this month. I don't think it has anything do with the shape they're in.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tang1. Show tang1's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    i agree with you roy about the pitching, but it seems this is happenig year after year, somebody should be watching and learning from other teams, injuries happen, but this isnt all injuries, bucholz dice k lestor becket wake, the whole pitching staff spent time one the d.l. it is up to management to get these guys in shape right at s.t. they start every year like its a joke, this is why evey year we have our team in a big funk. i think its coaches and the manager who need to get thease guys ready like most other teams. there like babys
     
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    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    ya no doubt a lack of conditioning has hurt this team. year in, year out the come into spring training out of shape and dont work hard enough in spring training to get in shape and as a result start slow and get injured far too often. it seems like every year now the whole team gets injured at some point or another. Francona needs to go. The sox need a manager who will push the players to work harder day in, day out. francona is not that guy. he is more concerned about being everyones buddy than he is about actually managing his players. If this team is going to be successful going forward, some major changes need to occur. Francona needs to go, and so does epstein. As bad as francona has been, his only saving grace is that epstein provided him with lack luster pitching staff that was weak from day 1 and a mediocre bullpen at best. Not to mention an unbalanced line up wirh too many black holes in it. I am surprised the team has done as good as they have to this point. Theo has made far too many mistakes when it comes to handing out contracts and making trades. Let the cubs have him. Francona just is not a good manager plain and simple. He is more of a babysitter than a major league manager. All he does is try to make the veteran players happy. he has no managerial skills whatsoever.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tang1. Show tang1's posts

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    In Response to Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?:
    [QUOTE]ya no doubt a lack of conditioning has hurt this team. year in, year out the come into spring training out of shape and dont work hard enough in spring training to get in shape and as a result start slow and get injured far too often. it seems like every year now the whole team gets injured at some point or another. Francona needs to go. The sox need a manager who will push the players to work harder day in, day out. francona is not that guy. he is more concerned about being everyones buddy than he is about actually managing his players. If this team is going to be successful going forward, some major changes need to occur. Francona needs to go, and so does epstein. As bad as francona has been, his only saving grace is that epstein provided him with lack luster pitching staff that was weak from day 1 and a mediocre bullpen at best. Not to mention an unbalanced line up wirh too many black holes in it. I am surprised the team has done as good as they have to this point. Theo has made far too many mistakes when it comes to handing out contracts and making trades. Let the cubs have him. Francona just is not a good manager plain and simple. He is more of a babysitter than a major league manager. All he does is try to make the veteran players happy. he has no managerial skills whatsoever.
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    In Response to Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right? : The one thing I have to add is this. The big problem this month has been pitching.I think it snowballed and had a dominoe affect on other parts of the game, but the fact is, the Sox have now had 18 of 24 games (if I counted right) where the pitching staff has allowed more than five runs a game. You can have the best-conditioned team in the world and that's a lot to overcome. I've posted this before, but it has to be mentally draining on hitters when their team is down 3-0, 4-0, 5-0 by the third inning in nearly every game, often times in the first. And I'm not sure how much of the pitching woes have to do with how good of shape the player is in. Buchholz's injury -- I don't know how you provent his injury by conditioning better.  Lackey -- OK, I'll give you him. Maybe he needs to be in better shape, although he looks he same as he always did. He just stinks this year. Players can be in good shape and stink. Lester has been healthy all year. He has stunk this month but is that because he not in condition or just that he has stunk this month. Beckett came into this seaon in better shape, which is why he's had a strong season. When he missed a start or two earlier this month with a sprained ankle, how is that because he's not in shape. Miller, Weiland, Wakefield have all got rocked this month. I don't think it has anything do with the shape they're in.
    Posted by royf19[/QUOTE]

    I agree Roy that pitching has been the real issue, and that it's not necessary conditioning. I don't thing team conditioning has changed or eroded over the years. In fact, it may be among the league's most innovative.

    Many pitchers have raved about the shoulder-strengthening program.
    It may have been responsible for Papelbon's 6-year durability, by his own admission. The team has had an excellent record of few TJ casualties...until this year.

    Dice was placated by Young, when Farrell was always on his AZZ.
    Dice kept opting for what worked for him in the less competitive Japan.

    Hill was the 2nd to have TJ surgery. He was encouraged to try a different arm slot.

    Jenks is really the only one where an argument could be made for poor conditioning.

    Buck's motion is conducive to back issues. I mentioned this when FO extended his contract.

    Lackey has had elbow issues in the past. It flared up again in May, and for all we know, could still be problematic. There are statistical indicators like SO/BB ratios and # of QS's that earmark his regression,dating back to the 2nd half of 2008.
    Gambling 80 mil on that elbow was not wise.

    I vividly recall when Lackey had absolutely no command whatsoever of his bread & butter secondary pitches on that July 4th debacle. He said "I was looking for help but..." he was referring to a flaw in his delivery that he felt should have been detected by Young (or maybe Salty). Now, this is pure Lackey, but there's some truth to this, as he very seldom has such poor control of his breaking stuff.

    When Bard was all over the place, even color man Remy said Bard's arm slot was way off. Where was Young? Why did it take three implosions to right the ship?

    Buch began this season throwing 2-3 MPH less than last year. That's likely mechanical, which, with him possibly prone to back issues, only compounds the likelihood of injury.

    Lester is throwing 93-94 MPH this season. He threw 96-97 last season. Why the difference? Look his last outing: his velocity was erratic. Young has a talk with him. He throws 94 over the next 2 pitches...then gives up the icing dinger to Jeter on a 91 - repeat 91 mph fastball.

    I was at the game in Seattle when Beckett was throwing 92 mph in the first inning...when he got clocked for 5 runs. He robotically throws 94 mph.

    To summarize, I think some of these injuries were inevitable.
    Some were the result of highly erratic pitching form due to poor mechanics.
    Pitchers often stated how Farrell was such a good communicator and extremely hard worker.

    I don't know of anybody who has said anything about Young as being a good sounding board. Do you?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tang1. Show tang1's posts

    Re: Conditioning, Is Carfado right?

    sox pride. couldnt agree more, he is not cut out to be a manager, he is a great pal to his players and doesnt sit players that dont perform, he will run the same broken down players night after night and we always seem to come to the same end .some people are brainwashed cause we won two titles, but grady little won 96 games in 03 with out schilling keith foulke and some other key players, if grady little manage the team in 2004 we would have won anyway. fraconas time here is short lived i hope, we would have been better off with john farell at the helm,
     
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