Congrats, Sox fans....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

     

    Right on, Kimmi. The vast majority of us recognize and admire Jeter's greatness. And wish he played for us.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I wish the Red Sox had Jeter ONLY before and after we had Nomar. 
    Nomar, during his prime, was better than Jeter. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Nomar had a few fantastic yrs, especially the 372 mark. However, Herb Score was a little better than Warren Spahn for a year or two (and a host of other examples). Also no rings, and when he was jettisoned was the yr the RS finally won. A ridiculous statement.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree other than the rings argument....Charlie Silvera has one more ring than Jeter, right?  And Jim Loscutoff (7) was four better than Larry Bird (3).  And of course Ernie Banks was the joint worst player in baseball history because he won no rings.

    [/QUOTE]


    From the sublime to the ridiculous. Granted, it wasn't Nomar's fault his teams didn't win. But those were marginal players who barely took the field and had little impact on their teams. Should we include bat boys, clubhouse men & trainers too? If so, Pete Sheehy had about 20 rings.

    [/QUOTE]


    I used Silvera and Loscutoff for a bit of fun to illustrate my point....that you obviously get i.e. "not Nomar's fault".   I'm not down on Jeter at all, he's a great player, but his membership of the best team of the past 30 years is what primarily delivered those (first 4) rings, not his personal excellence.


    What he has in common with Silvera, Loscutoff, Bernie Williams, Mo Rivera and many more is "right place, right time".  What he has in common with Mo Rivera from that list is excellence.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    Nomar had a better peak.

    WAR  '97 - '00   DJ  22.1    NG  28.1

    Jeter and Nomar had similiar peaks offensively with an edge to Nomar:

    wRC+ 

    NG  '99   157

    NG '00  154

    DJ  '99  157

    DJ   '00  133

    They were both poor defenders most of their careers, but Nomar had a good UZR 3 of 4 ('97 - '00).

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    hahahaha.  OP - sit tight pal.  Waaaaaaaaambulance is on it's way!

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    btw - jeter isn't even the best ss on his team.  and if by good or great you mean selling out your teammate and turning the fans, media, teammates against him which by result, turns this emotional superstar into a former shell of himself - then yeah, jeter is your man.

    #thiswillnotendwellforeitherofthem

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

    There's a stooge on this board who keeps repeating that Jeter is not a good defensive SS. While his defense has declined in terms of range, he has excellent hands and makes plays with more poise than any of his peers. The stooge critic will remain a stooge critic, as Jeter and his heart and soul take all those title teams, last one was 2009, into the Hall of Fame as the SS who a stooge claimed was not a good defensive SS. That same stooge claimed, in 2011, that Tim Wastefield was one of the best #4 or #5 pitchers in baseball. Wastefield is going into the Hall of Shame.



    This I agree with (The Jeter part that is); except his range was always limited, even in his prime. He was (and still is) fabulous in every other way (defensively), however.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars's comment:

     

    Right on, Kimmi. The vast majority of us recognize and admire Jeter's greatness. And wish he played for us.

     



    I wish the Red Sox had Jeter ONLY before and after we had Nomar. 
    Nomar, during his prime, was better than Jeter. 

     

     



    Nomar had a few fantastic yrs, especially the 372 mark. However, Herb Score was a little better than Warren Spahn for a year or two (and a host of other examples). Also no rings, and when he was jettisoned was the yr the RS finally won. A ridiculous statement.




I agree other than the rings argument....Charlie Silvera has one more ring than Jeter, right?  And Jim Loscutoff (7) was four better than Larry Bird (3).  And of course Ernie Banks was the joint worst player in baseball history because he won no rings.




From the sublime to the ridiculous. Granted, it wasn't Nomar's fault his teams didn't win. But those were marginal players who barely took the field and had little impact on their teams. Should we include bat boys, clubhouse men & trainers too? If so, Pete Sheehy had about 20 rings.




I used Silvera and Loscutoff for a bit of fun to illustrate my point....that you obviously get i.e. "not Nomar's fault".   I'm not down on Jeter at all, he's a great player, but his membership of the best team of the past 30 years is what primarily delivered those (first 4) rings, not his personal excellence.


What he has in common with Silvera, Loscutoff, Bernie Williams, Mo Rivera and many more is "right place, right time".  What he has in common with Mo Rivera from that list is excellence.



Sounds like a contradiction; I'll assume you meant the latter

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

    except his range was always limited, even in his prime.

    All men have limited range. Jeter's range, years ago, was adequate with quicker feet and a large stride and the ability to make the same plays going to his left that few SS can make. SS is about having the ability to play the position well enough to get the job done on a full-time basis. If Jeter was weak defensively, as the propaganda from video game minds touts on this board, there is no way the Yankees win all those division and world titles.

    Just like the Red Sox incompetent GM's, this Board doesn't have a clue what makes an everyday MLB career SS.

    There's one idiot on this Board who claimed that Jed Lowrie was an elite MLB SS. Jed Lowrie is incapable as an everyday career MLB SS because, in addition to his poor agility, range, throwing velocity and catch to throwing release time, he has the poise of a little leaguer. That was obvious from the first time I saw the guy, who also happens to be a Big Labor slug who has issues showing up for the work he's being paid a lot of money to do.




    I believe it started with Bill James (RS staff member); who claimed Jeter was the worst starting MLB SS in history; and while I respect some of the metrics he made famous (i.e, OPS, normalized measures #s & +s); this was not his best moment.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    During his prime, Nomar was certainly on par with Jeter. But it must be pointed out that Nomar's prime didn't last nearly as long as Jeter's. Garciaparra is only a year older and has been retired since 2009. Jeter is coming off a .316 season in which he had 216 hits, the second-highest total of his HOF career.

    There were individual seasons that Nomar was the better player. But over the long haul, no contest.

    Every time I go to Fenway and see somebody with a JETER SUCKS t-shirt, I want to hit them for being so stupid. No idea how you can't admire that guy. Now, A-ROD SUCKS, that's a different matter.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    During his prime, Nomar was certainly on par with Jeter. But it must be pointed out that Nomar's prime didn't last nearly as long as Jeter's. Garciaparra is only a year older and has been retired since 2009. Jeter is coming off a .316 season in which he had 216 hits, the second-highest total of his HOF career.

    There were individual seasons that Nomar was the better player. But over the long haul, no contest.

    Every time I go to Fenway and see somebody with a JETER SUCKS t-shirt, I want to hit them for being so stupid. No idea how you can't admire that guy. Now, A-ROD SUCKS, that's a different matter.

     



    This sounds like the Dwight Gooden -- Walter Johnson comparison, except that's even moreso.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

     

    Right on, Kimmi. The vast majority of us recognize and admire Jeter's greatness. And wish he played for us.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I wish the Red Sox had Jeter ONLY before and after we had Nomar. 
    Nomar, during his prime, was better than Jeter. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Nomar had a few fantastic yrs, especially the 372 mark. However, Herb Score was a little better than Warren Spahn for a year or two (and a host of other examples). Also no rings, and when he was jettisoned was the yr the RS finally won. A ridiculous statement.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree other than the rings argument....Charlie Silvera has one more ring than Jeter, right?  And Jim Loscutoff (7) was four better than Larry Bird (3).  And of course Ernie Banks was the joint worst player in baseball history because he won no rings.

    [/QUOTE]


    From the sublime to the ridiculous. Granted, it wasn't Nomar's fault his teams didn't win. But those were marginal players who barely took the field and had little impact on their teams. Should we include bat boys, clubhouse men & trainers too? If so, Pete Sheehy had about 20 rings.

    [/QUOTE]


    I used Silvera and Loscutoff for a bit of fun to illustrate my point....that you obviously get i.e. "not Nomar's fault".   I'm not down on Jeter at all, he's a great player, but his membership of the best team of the past 30 years is what primarily delivered those (first 4) rings, not his personal excellence.


    What he has in common with Silvera, Loscutoff, Bernie Williams, Mo Rivera and many more is "right place, right time".  What he has in common with Mo Rivera from that list is excellence.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sounds like a contradiction; I'll assume you meant the latter

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think it's a contradiction at all, Steven.  Both statements clearly state my view of his excellence as a player.  Jeter was/is an excellent player, as was/is Rivera, Mantle, The Ted, Banks, etc.   Silvera and Loscutoff were not.  My point remains that the personal excellence of a baseball player that is 1/25th of a MLB roster, 1/15th of regular players, and 1/8th of key players is less of a driver for rings than good teams and timing.  Which is why I hate the "count the rings" argument....if no more proves the excellence of the Silveras, Jeters and Joneses than it disproves the excellence of the Teds, Banks and other guys with bad teams, timing and luck.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to TrotterNixon's comment:

    except his range was always limited, even in his prime.

    All men have limited range. Jeter's range, years ago, was adequate with quicker feet and a large stride and the ability to make the same plays going to his left that few SS can make. SS is about having the ability to play the position well enough to get the job done on a full-time basis. If Jeter was weak defensively, as the propaganda from video game minds touts on this board, there is no way the Yankees win all those division and world titles.

    Just like the Red Sox incompetent GM's, this Board doesn't have a clue what makes an everyday MLB career SS.

    There's one idiot on this Board who claimed that Jed Lowrie was an elite MLB SS. Jed Lowrie is incapable as an everyday career MLB SS because, in addition to his poor agility, range, throwing velocity and catch to throwing release time, he has the poise of a little leaguer. That was obvious from the first time I saw the guy, who also happens to be a Big Labor slug who has issues showing up for the work he's being paid a lot of money to do.



    There's one idiot on this board who rants and raves about great fielding SSs as the  be all end all, then defends Jeter's fielding, even his recent defense.

    Silly clown.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    I wasnt cheering the injury, but Id be lying if I said I wasnt glad that it was going to make it harder for NYY to win that series. I wish him the best in two weeks after his surgery and NYY are eliminated. Funny isnt it, how injuries can shape a team's destiny. Im sure as heck glad it never happened to us in Boston! 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    I wasnt cheering the injury, but Id be lying if I said I wasnt glad that it was going to make it harder for NYY to win that series. I wish him the best in two weeks after his surgery and NYY are eliminated. Funny isnt it, how injuries can shape a team's destiny. Im sure as heck glad it never happened to us in Boston! 



    The "Yank Tank" has begun!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    I wasnt cheering the injury, but Id be lying if I said I wasnt glad that it was going to make it harder for NYY to win that series. I wish him the best in two weeks after his surgery and NYY are eliminated. Funny isnt it, how injuries can shape a team's destiny. Im sure as heck glad it never happened to us in Boston! 



    The "Yank Tank" has begun!



    Which means this thread shall be banned soon.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    I wasnt cheering the injury, but Id be lying if I said I wasnt glad that it was going to make it harder for NYY to win that series. I wish him the best in two weeks after his surgery and NYY are eliminated. Funny isnt it, how injuries can shape a team's destiny. Im sure as heck glad it never happened to us in Boston! 



    The "Yank Tank" has begun!

    "YANK TANK"


                     The LAST thing Sox fans should be doing now is bad mouthing any team that made it to the postseason.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:



    The "Yank Tank" has begun!


     

                     The LAST thing Sox fans should be doing now is bad mouthing any team that made it to the postseason.

    considering where we are...understandably fashionable..


  •  
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to moonslav59's comment:



    The "Yank Tank" has begun!

    LOL...i guess if you throw enough rocks you're gonna break the window at least once huh Moon? :-)


     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

     

    Yeah, kind of hard talking smack when you're a sub-.500 team. How ya doing, Jete?

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

     

    Yeah, kind of hard talking smack when you're a sub-.500 team. How ya doing, Jete?

    hey LD..what's doin?...i'm good thanks...now that we've got the Tiggers right where we want em' :-)...time to put the comeback in effect ;)...

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    do you think beckett and his texas boozehounds wouldve pulled that carp in 2011 with jeter as captain?  say what you want about the evil empire but they seem to run a much tighter ship than the sox..and jeter is the capt and one constant...hate to see him hurt

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Congrats, Sox fans....

    In response to georom4's comment:

    do you think beckett and his texas boozehounds wouldve pulled that carp in 2011 with jeter as captain?  say what you want about the evil empire but they seem to run a much tighter ship than the sox..and jeter is the capt and one constant...hate to see him hurt

    and does anyone doubt that we would have won more than two WS if we had Jeter playing for us since 1996?   The guy is a winner and a sure Hall of Famer.  I certainly don't want to see the Yankees win anything this year beyond what they've already won but I'm sorry to see Derek layed up for the rest of the year.


     
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