Congratulations Salty!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Congratulations Salty!!

    No doubt everyone has their fan favorite and Salty is mine. Even though I have no problem discussing and acknowledging his shortcomings ( doesn't every player have them?) it's nice to be able to give him a shout out and a congratulations.

    I have to say I was a little surprised no one posted about Salty breaking the Red Sox record for most doubles by a catcher. He hit his 40th last night..and became only the 13th Sox catcher to do so since 1901.

    This is a nice accomplishment for a catcher..especially when you consider that no position on a baseball team works harder than the catcher. Salty has put up some of the best offensive numbers of his career this season and even if he doesn't return in a Sox uniform next season, he's definitely setting himself up well for free agency.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    Hopefully, Ben will reward him with a nice 2 year deal (@ $13 M) w/ an incentive-based option (for games played in Y2 > 132)......

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    2yr deal AM? I highly doubt he would take it since he will probably get 4 on the open market. Depending what McCann makes, Salty could have a nice payday coming. Why would you give incentives for 132 games when hes never done that before? Most catchers nowadays play about 120 if they're full time.

    Salty has earned a 4yr and between around 8-10M per contract. Maybe more depending on McCann and whos in on the bidding. If the Sox were smart, they would lock him up first thing after the season ends. Before he even hits the open market.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    Catchers are in high demands these days. The positional comparative value of having a catcher with an .800+ OPS is extremely valuable.

    This year, 15 teams have a catcher OPS under .685!

    8 teams are under .650.

    5 teams are under .586.

    Only the Indians have a team catching OPS (.827) above Salty's personal OPS this year (.803).

    Looking at 2012-2013 combined:

    21 MLB teams had a catcher OPS under .720, 14 under .691, 6 under .645.

    Salty's 2 year OPS is .773. That's better than all but 4 team's catcher OPS the last 2 year's combined

     

    I can't see Salty taking anything less than $33M/3 or $40M/4, and he may even get something like $50M/4 or $60M/5.

     

    I hope he returns to Boston. We can't afford a 100-150 point OPS loss at any position.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    2yr deal AM? I highly doubt he would take it since he will probably get 4 on the open market. Depending what McCann makes, Salty could have a nice payday coming. Why would you give incentives for 132 games when hes never done that before? Most catchers nowadays play about 120 if they're full time.

    Salty has earned a 4yr and between around 8-10M per contract. Maybe more depending on McCann and whos in on the bidding. If the Sox were smart, they would lock him up first thing after the season ends. Before he even hits the open market.




    I agree. I think the 132 games is a little but unreasonable for a catcher. I think Salty has more than proven he deserves to return in a Sox uniform . I'd give him the 10 mil per year and hope they do lock him up before the season ends.  Salty catches a lot of flack..but there are not too many players on the Sox that could go out and do what he does every night and with minimal time of or injuries.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    No doubt everyone has their fan favorite and Salty is mine. Even though I have no problem discussing and acknowledging his shortcomings ( doesn't every player have them?) it's nice to be able to give him a shout out and a congratulations.

    I have to say I was a little surprised no one posted about Salty breaking the Red Sox record for most doubles by a catcher. He hit his 40th last night..and became only the 13th Sox catcher to do so since 1901.

    This is a nice accomplishment for a catcher..especially when you consider that no position on a baseball team works harder than the catcher. Salty has put up some of the best offensive numbers of his career this season and even if he doesn't return in a Sox uniform next season, he's definitely setting himself up well for free agency.



    I'm a little confused by this statement.  Do you mean the 13th MLB catcher?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Catchers are in high demands these days. The positional comparative value of having a catcher with an .800+ OPS is extremely valuable.

    This year, 15 teams have a catcher OPS under .685!

    8 teams are under .650.

    5 teams are under .586.

    Only the Indians have a team catching OPS (.827) above Salty's personal OPS this year (.803).

    Looking at 2012-2013 combined:

    21 MLB teams had a catcher OPS under .720, 14 under .691, 6 under .645.

    Salty's 2 year OPS is .773. That's better than all but 4 team's catcher OPS the last 2 year's combined

     

    I can't see Salty taking anything less than $33M/3 or $40M/4, and he may even get something like $50M/4 or $60M/5.

     

    I hope he returns to Boston. We can't afford a 100-150 point OPS loss at any position.

     

    Sox4ever



    Good stats as always, but it is misleading to compare Salty's personal ops to team's catcher ops.  Most teams are going to have a backup catcher that lowers the team catcher ops.  Isn't it more accurate to compare Salty to other starting catchers?

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to greenwellforpresident's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Catchers are in high demands these days. The positional comparative value of having a catcher with an .800+ OPS is extremely valuable.

    This year, 15 teams have a catcher OPS under .685!

    8 teams are under .650.

    5 teams are under .586.

    Only the Indians have a team catching OPS (.827) above Salty's personal OPS this year (.803).

    Looking at 2012-2013 combined:

    21 MLB teams had a catcher OPS under .720, 14 under .691, 6 under .645.

    Salty's 2 year OPS is .773. That's better than all but 4 team's catcher OPS the last 2 year's combined

     

    I can't see Salty taking anything less than $33M/3 or $40M/4, and he may even get something like $50M/4 or $60M/5.

     

    I hope he returns to Boston. We can't afford a 100-150 point OPS loss at any position.

     

    Sox4ever

     



    Good stats as always, but it is misleading to compare Salty's personal ops to team's catcher ops.  Most teams are going to have a backup catcher that lowers the team catcher ops.  Isn't it more accurate to compare Salty to other starting catchers?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    gotta say i do agree with this. it's not often that your backup catcher is the stick and your starter is the defensive guy. usually the starter is the C with the stick and the backup is all glove.

    but no matter how you slice it, Salty is a top offensive catcher and a top 10 catcher overall. We spent the offseason saying what Salty needed to do in 2013 to be considered legit and he has done just that. higher AVG/OBP? check. less strikeouts? check. improving defensively? check. On top of that he's given us a bonus check (or discount double check if you will) in becoming a very smart baserunner. Salty is not going to be mistaken for Ricky Henderson anytime soon, he runs like a catcher. BUT i've noticed he's been extremely smart on the bases which definitely can make up for a lack of speed. He's done a great job knowing when to take the extra base and off the top of my head cant remember any time he killed us on the basepaths.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    OK......

    Maybe it should be a straight 3/42

    I think given that he will get a QO, he will cost a team a draft pick and that will reduce the value



     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    Personally, offering Salty less than 4 years would be a crime. To be able to get a catcher for the ages of 28-32 (probably the best years for a catcher) the calibur of Salty doesnt come around often in MLB.

    I laugh at the people who call him a butcher, then call for Lavarnway who actually IS a butcher. Or Ruiz whos closer to 40 than 30. Or McCann who will def be grossly overpaid and both are very comparable defensively, and Salty has gained some ground offensively as well. Nobody here knows what Swihart or Vasquez will do. They may both hit a wall and never become starting MLB catchers. They may not. But we already have a very good offensive catcher, who has improved his D greatly, knows our staff, has learned the players around the league very well and calls a great game, right now. I would have NO ISSUE with 4/35-40 with an option for a 5th year. He will get offers similar to this if he hits FA.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    i would not hesitate to sign salty to a 4 year deal. he's earned his money. improving every year both offensively and defensively, a leader on this team and has been extremely healthy (1 DL stint i believe. for a lower back issue a few years ago).

    we have no replacement for him and it's not going to break the bank to retain him. it's a no brainer to assume he will be on our team next year.

    Some say a storm is coming, Some say the end is near.

    Some think it's all so hazy, I think it's all so clear.

    Some say they have the answers, some say they know the truth.

    Some people live in question, some people have no clue.

    If there was no tomorrow, if there was just today.

    would you make different choices? or would you stay the same?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    I have been impressed with Salty this year.  I think what I am most impressed with this year is his durability.  He really came through with a lot of innings caught when Ross was on the DL.  I have always liked his work ethic and how he puts handling his pitchers above his offense.  Whatever Salty contributes offensively is gravy, IMO.

    I am still not completely sold on his defense or on his handling the pitching staff.  He still rates negatively in DRS at -8, and his CERA (yes I'm aware of the SSS issue) still lags behind Ross' for our starters.

    That said, there are two positives for Salty regarding his work behind the plate.  One, I do feel like he continues to develop and improve.  Two, he knows the pitching staff well, and the pitchers are only going to get more comfortable with him.  While he might not be great, he is by no means a liability.

    I really hope that the Sox can re-sign him. 

     

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    I have been impressed with Salty this year.  I think what I am most impressed with this year is his durability.  He really came through with a lot of innings caught when Ross was on the DL.  I have always liked his work ethic and how he puts handling his pitchers above his offense.  Whatever Salty contributes offensively is gravy, IMO.

    I am still not completely sold on his defense or on his handling the pitching staff.  He still rates negatively in DRS at -8, and his CERA (yes I'm aware of the SSS issue) still lags behind Ross' for our starters.

    That said, there are two positives for Salty regarding his work behind the plate.  One, I do feel like he continues to develop and improve.  Two, he knows the pitching staff well, and the pitchers are only going to get more comfortable with him.  While he might not be great, he is by no means a liability.

    I really hope that the Sox can re-sign him. 

     




    The way all of our pitchers speak about him, it souds like they are already very comfortable with him. Im sorry Kimmi, although I respect your opinions and knowlwdge with all the stats, catching defense is probably one of the toughest to determine. There are just too many intangibles that you dont see on a stat sheet. I like them to a point. Heres a good example, although not with a catcher. Stephen Drew has always been a good defender. Always. Ive seen him play a number of times before coming here and also interviewing a couple guys in the AZ organization. They all said he is a defensive metrics nightmare. Although the stats say hes had "limited range", if you watch him play you would have never guessed that. How many on this board were all over him about his poor defense, and throughout the year everyone changed their tune. They realized that if you know the batters tendencies, what pitch is being thrown, have quick reactions, and can anticipate where the ball is going, range doesnt matter much and really makes you look worse than you are. JD Drew was brilliant at that in RF. Didnt have to dive much because of this. He wasnt a burner who could run down a lot of balls, but he sure got great reads and jumps on balls hit his way.

    I like pitching and offensive stats and rely on them a lot more. I like defensive stats, but defense is too subjective to rely on it more than what you see with your own eyes. Compared to the league average on defense, Salty is slightly higher than average. Hes improved every year and theres no reason to think he wont continue to improved. Im not saying they are useless, because they are not. CERA is somewhat of a joke though, especially if you dont have about 3 years of comparable stats with the same 2 catchers catching the same pitchers about the same amount of times. And even then, if the pitcher is throwing a gem or totally has no feel for the ball, its not going to matter much what pitch the catcher calls or anything else.

    I think overall we agree about Salty, Kimmi, besides relying on defensive metrics.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    He won't be breaking any catching and fielding records.




    Nobody expects that. Neither will Brian McCann. They are bother more offense than defense, but both are league average defenders who will get a nice payday this winter.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    i have no use for defensive metrics for catchers.... they really just get in the way since they rely on many factors a catcher has no control over.

    Some say a storm is coming, Some say the end is near.

    Some think it's all so hazy, I think it's all so clear.

    Some say they have the answers, some say they know the truth.

    Some people live in question, some people have no clue.

    If there was no tomorrow, if there was just today.

    would you make different choices? or would you stay the same?

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    The way all of our pitchers speak about him, it souds like they are already very comfortable with him. Im sorry Kimmi, although I respect your opinions and knowlwdge with all the stats, catching defense is probably one of the toughest to determine. There are just too many intangibles that you dont see on a stat sheet. I like them to a point. Heres a good example, although not with a catcher. Stephen Drew has always been a good defender. Always. Ive seen him play a number of times before coming here and also interviewing a couple guys in the AZ organization. They all said he is a defensive metrics nightmare. Although the stats say hes had "limited range", if you watch him play you would have never guessed that. How many on this board were all over him about his poor defense, and throughout the year everyone changed their tune. They realized that if you know the batters tendencies, what pitch is being thrown, have quick reactions, and can anticipate where the ball is going, range doesnt matter much and really makes you look worse than you are. JD Drew was brilliant at that in RF. Didnt have to dive much because of this. He wasnt a burner who could run down a lot of balls, but he sure got great reads and jumps on balls hit his way.

     

    I like pitching and offensive stats and rely on them a lot more. I like defensive stats, but defense is too subjective to rely on it more than what you see with your own eyes. Compared to the league average on defense, Salty is slightly higher than average. Hes improved every year and theres no reason to think he wont continue to improved. Im not saying they are useless, because they are not. CERA is somewhat of a joke though, especially if you dont have about 3 years of comparable stats with the same 2 catchers catching the same pitchers about the same amount of times. And even then, if the pitcher is throwing a gem or totally has no feel for the ball, its not going to matter much what pitch the catcher calls or anything else.

    I think overall we agree about Salty, Kimmi, besides relying on defensive metrics.

    I respect your opinion and appreciate the respectful way that you reply to me, even when we disagree. 

    I have two problems with relying solely on the 'eye test'.  One, your eyes will lie to you.  This is not meant to be a knock on you or anyone else.  I have no doubt that you know the game of baseball very well.  However, we are all biased whether we want to admit it or not.  Plus, we don't always see the entire play unfolding.  Two, unless you watch every catcher play just about every game, it is impossible to say that Salty is better or worse than average.

    I understand the shortcomings of defensive metrics and CERA.  Every sabermetric stat geek has acknowledged the shortcomings of these stats.  I understand that catcher defense is probably the hardest to quantify.  However, because a stat is flawed (which they all are), that doesn't mean that the stat is irrelevant or inaccurate.  As always, the more you can look at, from both the stat and scouting perspectives, the better off you will be.

    A stat as seemingly simple and straightforward as Ks is flawed due to umpire bias, human error, and inconsistency in strike zones - those are all subjective factors.  Yet, that stat (along with all the others) is thrown into  just about every debate/discussion and accepted as an accurate measure of a hitter's (or pitcher's) ability. 

    Regardless of the flaws, when you look several years worth of stats and data on Salty, he repeatedly comes out below average. 

    Since 2008 when pitch/fx was introduced, there have been 3 very comprehensive studies conducted by the fine folks at BP for the years 2008-2011.  Links to all 3 have been posted here. 

    One was on blocking pitches in the dirt, on which Salty rated poorly.  Consideration was given to him for catching Wakefield's knuckleball, but even with that consideration, Salty was below average.  The second was on framing pitches, on which Salty rated very well.  The third was on pitch calling, on which Salty rated poorly.

    Many fans do not buy into these things, but you can bet most FOs do.  Most of the guys at BP conducting these studies are now employed by major league teams.  It's no coincidence that David Ross, known as a defensive catcher, was signed as Salty's backup.

    All that said, this post really isn't a post against Salty.  I like him, and as I said in my earlier post, I want him back.  This post is really more in defense of advanced stats, of which I am a huge proponent.  Smile

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    As far as Stephen Drew goes, I have been defending his defense since before the season started.  Since 2009, the defensive stats at Fangraphs have rated Drew as an above average defensive SS, except for last year when, IMO, he was still recovering from his ankle injury. 

    As far a JD Drew goes, I have defended him and his contract since he was signed.  My favorite JD quote from a scout right after the Sox signed him (and I may be paraphrasing a little) - "JD will easily get to a ball that Trot had to dive for, and he will be crucified for it."   Truer words were never spoken.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    The way all of our pitchers speak about him, it souds like they are already very comfortable with him. Im sorry Kimmi, although I respect your opinions and knowlwdge with all the stats, catching defense is probably one of the toughest to determine. There are just too many intangibles that you dont see on a stat sheet. I like them to a point. Heres a good example, although not with a catcher. Stephen Drew has always been a good defender. Always. Ive seen him play a number of times before coming here and also interviewing a couple guys in the AZ organization. They all said he is a defensive metrics nightmare. Although the stats say hes had "limited range", if you watch him play you would have never guessed that. How many on this board were all over him about his poor defense, and throughout the year everyone changed their tune. They realized that if you know the batters tendencies, what pitch is being thrown, have quick reactions, and can anticipate where the ball is going, range doesnt matter much and really makes you look worse than you are. JD Drew was brilliant at that in RF. Didnt have to dive much because of this. He wasnt a burner who could run down a lot of balls, but he sure got great reads and jumps on balls hit his way.

     

    I like pitching and offensive stats and rely on them a lot more. I like defensive stats, but defense is too subjective to rely on it more than what you see with your own eyes. Compared to the league average on defense, Salty is slightly higher than average. Hes improved every year and theres no reason to think he wont continue to improved. Im not saying they are useless, because they are not. CERA is somewhat of a joke though, especially if you dont have about 3 years of comparable stats with the same 2 catchers catching the same pitchers about the same amount of times. And even then, if the pitcher is throwing a gem or totally has no feel for the ball, its not going to matter much what pitch the catcher calls or anything else.

    I think overall we agree about Salty, Kimmi, besides relying on defensive metrics.

     

     

    I respect your opinion and appreciate the respectful way that you reply to me, even when we disagree. 

    I have two problems with relying solely on the 'eye test'.  One, your eyes will lie to you.  This is not meant to be a knock on you or anyone else.  I have no doubt that you know the game of baseball very well.  However, we are all biased whether we want to admit it or not.  Plus, we don't always see the entire play unfolding.  Two, unless you watch every catcher play just about every game, it is impossible to say that Salty is better or worse than average.

    I understand the shortcomings of defensive metrics and CERA.  Every sabermetric stat geek has acknowledged the shortcomings of these stats.  I understand that catcher defense is probably the hardest to quantify.  However, because a stat is flawed (which they all are), that doesn't mean that the stat is irrelevant or inaccurate.  As always, the more you can look at, from both the stat and scouting perspectives, the better off you will be.

    A stat as seemingly simple and straightforward as Ks is flawed due to umpire bias, human error, and inconsistency in strike zones - those are all subjective factors.  Yet, that stat (along with all the others) is thrown into  just about every debate/discussion and accepted as an accurate measure of a hitter's (or pitcher's) ability. 

    Regardless of the flaws, when you look several years worth of stats and data on Salty, he repeatedly comes out below average. 

    Since 2008 when pitch/fx was introduced, there have been 3 very comprehensive studies conducted by the fine folks at BP for the years 2008-2011.  Links to all 3 have been posted here. 

    One was on blocking pitches in the dirt, on which Salty rated poorly.  Consideration was given to him for catching Wakefield's knuckleball, but even with that consideration, Salty was below average.  The second was on framing pitches, on which Salty rated very well.  The third was on pitch calling, on which Salty rated poorly.

    Many fans do not buy into these things, but you can bet most FOs do.  Most of the guys at BP conducting these studies are now employed by major league teams.  It's no coincidence that David Ross, known as a defensive catcher, was signed as Salty's backup.

    All that said, this post really isn't a post against Salty.  I like him, and as I said in my earlier post, I want him back.  This post is really more in defense of advanced stats, of which I am a huge proponent.  Smile

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, sorry for taking this thread a little off track.

    In closing I will say that I dont rely soley on one or the other, but more of a balance. I may lean more one way on certain stats, but I never discount any stat completely. Well, maybe CERATongue Out

    We agree that he has improved defensively and should remain in a Sox uni. Always good going back and forth with you Kimmi.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to greenwellforpresident's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Catchers are in high demands these days. The positional comparative value of having a catcher with an .800+ OPS is extremely valuable.

    This year, 15 teams have a catcher OPS under .685!

    8 teams are under .650.

    5 teams are under .586.

    Only the Indians have a team catching OPS (.827) above Salty's personal OPS this year (.803).

    Looking at 2012-2013 combined:

    21 MLB teams had a catcher OPS under .720, 14 under .691, 6 under .645.

    Salty's 2 year OPS is .773. That's better than all but 4 team's catcher OPS the last 2 year's combined

     

    I can't see Salty taking anything less than $33M/3 or $40M/4, and he may even get something like $50M/4 or $60M/5.

     

    I hope he returns to Boston. We can't afford a 100-150 point OPS loss at any position.

     

    Sox4ever

     



    Good stats as always, but it is misleading to compare Salty's personal ops to team's catcher ops.  Most teams are going to have a backup catcher that lowers the team catcher ops.  Isn't it more accurate to compare Salty to other starting catchers?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I have compared Salty to individual catchers several times.

    I do not think comparing him to team numbers is misleading, since I point out that they are indeed the team numbers.

    I do think using this comparison has value in that all those teams with a team OPS 150-200 points lower than Salty, would greatly improve their offense by obtaining him. This is why I think Salty's value is actually much higher than many might think it is. When Salty is starting, we often have a huge OPS lead over our opponent at the catching position.

    One difficulty with using individual catcher stats is that there are only 10 MLB catcher who "qualify", and Salty is not one of them. Only 20 catchers have over 400 PAs, so how many FT catchers are there in MLB? 30 teams: 20 catchers with just 400 PAs.

    I have to lower the PA sample size to 305 PAs to get 30 ML catchers for a comparative look. This mehtod is flawed as well, since some teams have 2 catchers on the list, and some teams have none. Here's the look anyways:

    30 catchers with 305+ PAs

    .338 OBP by Salty places him 11th (.001 behind #10), but only 6 catchers have more PAs and a better OBP.

    .466 SLG% by Salty places him 7th (.004 behind 5th), but only 3 catchers have more PAs and a higher SLG%.

    .803 OPS by Salty places him 7th, but only 5 catchers have more PAs and a higher OPS than Salty, and 2 of them are on the Indians (Santana and Y Gomes).

    Expand the sample size to 2012-2013: Fangraphs has just 33 catchers with 500+ PAs in the 2 years combined, but one of them is Napoli. I'll take him out for these placements:

    .313 OBP places Salty 22 out of 32 (.001 from 21st).

    .460 SLG places Salty 7th (.003 from 6th). 

    .773 OPS places Salty 11th (.002 from 10th). Only 7 catchers have more PAs and a higher OPS than Salty:

    Posey, Mauer, Y Molina, Lucroy, Ruiz, Santana, and Pierzynski. Two of these guys are in serious age and production decline.

     

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    I have been impressed with Salty this year.  I think what I am most impressed with this year is his durability.  He really came through with a lot of innings caught when Ross was on the DL.  I have always liked his work ethic and how he puts handling his pitchers above his offense.  Whatever Salty contributes offensively is gravy, IMO.

    I am still not completely sold on his defense or on his handling the pitching staff.  He still rates negatively in DRS at -8, and his CERA (yes I'm aware of the SSS issue) still lags behind Ross' for our starters.

    That said, there are two positives for Salty regarding his work behind the plate.  One, I do feel like he continues to develop and improve.  Two, he knows the pitching staff well, and the pitchers are only going to get more comfortable with him.  While he might not be great, he is by no means a liability.

    I really hope that the Sox can re-sign him. 

     



    kimmi, stay tuned for the end of the season pitcher by pictehr CERA breakdown. Overall CERA is extremely flawed as some catchers catch better pitchers more than the others as well as some catch worse pitchers more than others, so the best way to use CERA is to look at how each pitcher did with each catcher. To be really accurate, only pitchers with large enough sample sizes should be significant, but a look at the overall pitcher by pitcher comparison may surprise you with the results, particularly with the starters and larger sample size pitchers.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    Since 2008 when pitch/fx was introduced, there have been 3 very comprehensive studies conducted by the fine folks at BP for the years 2008-2011.  Links to all 3 have been posted here. 

    One was on blocking pitches in the dirt, on which Salty rated poorly. 

    PBs:

    2011  26 in 856 inn

    2012   6  in 852 inn

    2013   7  in 999 inn

    WPs:

    2011  41

    2012  23

    2013  33

    Consideration was given to him for catching Wakefield's knuckleball, but even with that consideration, Salty was below average. 

     

     

    The second was on framing pitches, on which Salty rated very well. 

     

    Yes, agreed.

     

    The third was on pitch calling, on which Salty rated poorly.

    Was, but not anymore. Stay tuned for a complete breakdown after today's game.

    Sox4ever

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Personally, offering Salty less than 4 years would be a crime. To be able to get a catcher for the ages of 28-32 (probably the best years for a catcher) the calibur of Salty doesnt come around often in MLB.

    I laugh at the people who call him a butcher, then call for Lavarnway who actually IS a butcher. Or Ruiz whos closer to 40 than 30. Or McCann who will def be grossly overpaid and both are very comparable defensively, and Salty has gained some ground offensively as well. Nobody here knows what Swihart or Vasquez will do. They may both hit a wall and never become starting MLB catchers. They may not. But we already have a very good offensive catcher, who has improved his D greatly, knows our staff, has learned the players around the league very well and calls a great game, right now. I would have NO ISSUE with 4/35-40 with an option for a 5th year. He will get offers similar to this if he hits FA.



    It's laughable at this point, isn't it?  Many of us have supported his obvious, steady growth and assumed potential over the past few years.  Grandpa Salty is what, 28 months older than Babyface Lavarnway?

    4/35-40?  I think that'd be a huge bargain for the Sox.  There are so few good catchers ever available, he's reached a fairly high performance level and, IMO, it's reasonable to assume (at his relatively young age for a catcher) he still has some upside.  I'd have no problem at all with 4/50 or even a higher AAV.

    Is overpaying him by 1% of our budget ($2m/year) really such an issue when the alternatives are youths with potential 2 years+ away, older guys already underperforming him, and Wall Street's 2016 Rookie Investment Banker of the Year (Carlton Fisk division)?

     

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