Congratulations Salty!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    Personally, offering Salty less than 4 years would be a crime. To be able to get a catcher for the ages of 28-32 (probably the best years for a catcher) the calibur of Salty doesnt come around often in MLB.

    I laugh at the people who call him a butcher, then call for Lavarnway who actually IS a butcher. Or Ruiz whos closer to 40 than 30. Or McCann who will def be grossly overpaid and both are very comparable defensively, and Salty has gained some ground offensively as well. Nobody here knows what Swihart or Vasquez will do. They may both hit a wall and never become starting MLB catchers. They may not. But we already have a very good offensive catcher, who has improved his D greatly, knows our staff, has learned the players around the league very well and calls a great game, right now. I would have NO ISSUE with 4/35-40 with an option for a 5th year. He will get offers similar to this if he hits FA.

     



    It's laughable at this point, isn't it?  Many of us have supported his obvious, steady growth and assumed potential over the past few years.  Grandpa Salty is what, 28 months older than Babyface Lavarnway?

     

    4/35-40?  I think that'd be a huge bargain for the Sox.  There are so few good catchers ever available, he's reached a fairly high performance level and, IMO, it's reasonable to assume (at his relatively young age for a catcher) he still has some upside.  I'd have no problem at all with 4/50 or even a higher AAV.

    Is overpaying him by 1% of our budget ($2m/year) really such an issue when the alternatives are youths with potential 2 years+ away, older guys already underperforming him, and Wall Street's 2016 Rookie Investment Banker of the Year (Carlton Fisk division)?



    Not many jumped on my bandwagon to extend Salty last winter. Now, they are coming out of the woodwork.

    We probably could have gotten Salty to accept a $32M/4 or $36M/4 deal back then.

    Who knows.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to greenwellforpresident's comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    No doubt everyone has their fan favorite and Salty is mine. Even though I have no problem discussing and acknowledging his shortcomings ( doesn't every player have them?) it's nice to be able to give him a shout out and a congratulations.

    I have to say I was a little surprised no one posted about Salty breaking the Red Sox record for most doubles by a catcher. He hit his 40th last night..and became only the 13th Sox catcher to do so since 1901.

    This is a nice accomplishment for a catcher..especially when you consider that no position on a baseball team works harder than the catcher. Salty has put up some of the best offensive numbers of his career this season and even if he doesn't return in a Sox uniform next season, he's definitely setting himself up well for free agency.

     



    I'm a little confused by this statement.  Do you mean the 13th MLB catcher?

     




    Sorry for the confusion. That statement should have said MLB catcher...not Sox. Had Red Sox on the brain!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

    Personally, offering Salty less than 4 years would be a crime. To be able to get a catcher for the ages of 28-32 (probably the best years for a catcher) the calibur of Salty doesnt come around often in MLB.

    I laugh at the people who call him a butcher, then call for Lavarnway who actually IS a butcher. Or Ruiz whos closer to 40 than 30. Or McCann who will def be grossly overpaid and both are very comparable defensively, and Salty has gained some ground offensively as well. Nobody here knows what Swihart or Vasquez will do. They may both hit a wall and never become starting MLB catchers. They may not. But we already have a very good offensive catcher, who has improved his D greatly, knows our staff, has learned the players around the league very well and calls a great game, right now. I would have NO ISSUE with 4/35-40 with an option for a 5th year. He will get offers similar to this if he hits FA.

     

     



    It's laughable at this point, isn't it?  Many of us have supported his obvious, steady growth and assumed potential over the past few years.  Grandpa Salty is what, 28 months older than Babyface Lavarnway?

     

     

    4/35-40?  I think that'd be a huge bargain for the Sox.  There are so few good catchers ever available, he's reached a fairly high performance level and, IMO, it's reasonable to assume (at his relatively young age for a catcher) he still has some upside.  I'd have no problem at all with 4/50 or even a higher AAV.

    Is overpaying him by 1% of our budget ($2m/year) really such an issue when the alternatives are youths with potential 2 years+ away, older guys already underperforming him, and Wall Street's 2016 Rookie Investment Banker of the Year (Carlton Fisk division)?

     



    Not many jumped on my bandwagon to extend Salty last winter. Now, they are coming out of the woodwork.

     

    We probably could have gotten Salty to accept a $32M/4 or $36M/4 deal back then.

    Who knows.



    i was fine with waiting and still am. I'm not the type of person who tries to "hoodwink" players or get them to sign offers well below their market value. The players are the ones who are out on the field, driving the revenue of the sport. they should be paid accordingly. I'm all for players getting their money and have no problem paying the extra ~6M to salty. he's earned it.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    2013 top catcher salaries:

     

    1 Joe Mauer at Catcher, 1st Base $23,000,000 2 Yadier Molina at Catcher $14,200,000 3 Brian McCann at Catcher $12,000,000 4 Miguel Montero at Catcher $10,000,000 5 A.J. Pierzynski at Catcher $7,500,000     Russell Martin at Catcher $7,500,000 7   John Buck at Catcher $6,500,000 8 Kurt Suzuki at Catcher $6,487,500 9 Matt Wieters at Catcher $5,500,000 10

    Chris Iannettaat

    Catcher

    $5,050,000

    Among that top 10, are there any you would prefer to Salty AND also think might be available?  If so, who and why?

    Also, excluding the silly money the Twins threw at local boy Mauer, don't these guys seem massively underpaid (in relative terms)?

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    On Salty and CERA...

     

    Sox4ever2013 Pitcher by Pitcher (IP) CERA & OPS against:

    (Red indicates a differential of 0.25 or more on ERA or .030 in OPS Against)

                           w/ Salty                  w/ Ross                 w/ Lava

    Lester     (143)  3.58/ .671      (70) 4.11/ .770            n/a

    Lackey   (147)  3.06/ .687     (11) 2.38/ .715          (31) 5.81/ .774

    Demp    (103)  4.62/ .750 )    (48) 3.00/ .711         (19)  8.38/ .985 

    Doub     (135)  3.86/ .708      (9)  8.31/ .871         (17)  3.18/ 711

    Buch       (67)  1.75/.558        (43) 1.73/ .529                   n/a

    Peavy     (33)  4.64/ .743       (20) 2.75/ .573      (12)  4.50/ .599

    The 6 starters:  Ross is significantly better than Ross with 3 of 6 starters, but one of them (Lackey) has a small sample size of just 11 IP. Salty is significantly better with 2 of 6 starters. With OPS Against, Salty is significantly better than Ross with 3 out of the 6 starters, and Ross with just 2 of 6, of which both are small sample sizes of 11 and 20 IP.

                         w/ Salty                   w/ Ross                   w/ Lava 

    Uehara  (54)  1.01/ .379       (14)  1.32/ .432        (6) 1.50/ 4.50

    Tazawa (49)  2.55/ .716       (15)  4.11/ .763        (4) 7.36/ .954

    Breslow (43) 2.32/ .677        (7)  0.00/ .390         (9) 0.96/ .590

    Workm (18) 5.00/ .728        (4) 4.15/ .635         (19) 5.12/ .800

    On the surface, it looks like a clean split: 2-2, but the two that Ross leads in are tiny sample sizes.

     

    If you look at the top 8 Sox pitchers by innings pitched, the record is like this:

    Significant disparity:

    CERA:  Salty +4 and Ross +3 (1 very close).

    OPS:  Salty +5 and Ross +2 (1 very close)

     

    Now, let’s look at how Sox pitchers have done with Salty from year to year:

     

    CERA & OPS against with Salty from 2011 to 2013:

                          2011                                                   2102                                   2013

    Lester:   3.77/ .717 (VTek 2.48/ .577) 5.62/ .869 (Shopp 3.70/ .638)  3.58/ . 671

    Lackey:  6.31/ .874 (VTek 6.82/ .769)             n/a                                   3.06/  .687

    Doubr:  5.19 .828  (VTek 10.80/.875)   4.95/ .777 (Shopp 4.18/.769)  3.86/  .708

    Buchh:  3.52/ .662 (VTek  3.38/ .841)   6.30/ .935 (Shopp 3.23/ .622) 1.75/  .558

    Taza:   6.75/ 1.000 (Lava  5.40/ .946)  1.45/ .604(Shopp 0.00/1.100)   2.55/ .716

    Bres:     n/a                                               3.95/.670  (Shopp  0.00/ 5.00)   2.32/ .677

     

    Of the 6 pitchers who have pitched to Salty over the last 2-3 years with the most IP, 5 of the 6 have had better CERAs with Salty this year. Only Tazawa has declined. 4 of 6 have improved in OPS Against with 1 being all but equal.

    If you look at the disparities between Salty and VTek in 2011, then Salty and Shoppach in 2012, and compare them to the disparities in 2013 with Ross and Lava, it is more than clear that Salty has not only improved in this area immensely, one could even say he is now a plus in the area of handling a pitching staff.

    Sox4ever

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    The overall CERA and OPS against numbers are deceptive. 

    Ross (286)  3.12  .674

    Salty (999) 3.84   .712

    Lava (161)  4.53  .746

    A typical FT player might be lucky to get 700 PAs over a season, but a FT catcher can easily catch over 4,000 PAs by the opponents. Even if you think they have minimal impact on what or how a pitcher throws to an opponent, 4,000+ PAs makes a significant difference.

    Catchers catch pitchers to varying degrees. Have a look...

    Salty (4214 PAs):

    Lester 601  14.2%

    Lack    595  14.1%

    Doub   577  13.7%

    Demp  439  10.4%

    Buch    255   6.1%

    Taza    201   4.8%

    Ueha    193  4.6%

    Bres     176  4.2%

    Acev     150  3.6%

    Peavy   137  3.3%

    Mort      105  2.5%

    Miller    102  2.4%

    Wilson   95   2.3%

    Bailey    89   2.1%

    Mora      88   2.1%

    Work     82   1.9%

    Web      82    1.9%

    Thorn    50    1.2%

    Beato    46    1.1%

    Britt      45     1.1%

    dele R    31     0.7%

    Hanra    27     0.6%

    dela T   22      0.5%

    Wright  20      0.4%

    Bard       6       0.1%

     

    Ross (1044 PAs):

    Lester 302  28.9%

    Demp  205  19.6%

    Buch   161  15.4%

    Peavy  79     7.6%

    Taza     64     6.1%

    Ueh      48     4.1%

    Lack     48     4.1%

    Doub    42     4.0%

    Mort     25     2.4%

    Bres     24     2.4%

    Web     24     2.4%

    Bail      19     1.8%

    Miller   18     1.7%

    Work   17      1.6%

    Mora    16      1.5%

    Acev    16      1.5%

    Wils    15       1.4%

    De la T 14      1.3%

    Britt     13      1.2%

    de la R 11      1.0%

    Hanra   10      0.9%

    Thorn     8      0.7%

    Villa       1      0.1%

     

    Lava (710 PAs):

    Lackey 135   19%

    Demps  107   15%

    Work      81    11.4%

    Doubr     74    10.4%

    Peavy     50     7.0%

    Wright    39     5.5%

    Breslow  34     4.8%

    Webster 27      3.8%

    Britton    26     3.7%

    Uehara   20     2.8%

    Tazawa  19     2.7%

    de la T    17    2.5%

    Wilson    17    2.5%

    Miller      15    2.1%

    Mort        11    1.5%

    Thorn      11    1.5%

    dela R      8      1.1%

    Mora        8      1.1%

    Bailey      8      1.1%

    Aceves    3      0.4%

    (In all fairness to Lava, not catching Buch at all has something to do with his higher CERA.)

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    CERA

    </flush>

    Laughing

    Some say a storm is coming, Some say the end is near.

    Some think it's all so hazy, I think it's all so clear.

    Some say they have the answers, some say they know the truth.

    Some people live in question, some people have no clue.

    If there was no tomorrow, if there was just today.

    would you make different choices? or would you stay the same?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    On Salty and CERA...

     



    Your information is incorrect with reguards to the Red coloring for Lackey's OPS advantage with Salty. Its not larger then .30 OPS advantage and so should be colored black. This also lowers your significant disparity department.

    Now to the bigger points. First, CERA takes into account base stealing, pass balls and wild pitches. OPS does not. And among these 10 pitchers "you" chose to focus on, its 6-4, advantage Ross in CERA. As for a large disparity[.65 or greater], Ross leads Salty 5-2 among the 10 pitchers you chose. And among pitchers who both caught atleast 20 innings each, its Ross 3-1, with a huge disparity advantage of 2-0.

    Second, shouldn't Salty have an advantage in these numbers anyway? He has caught most of these guys more then Ross, not just this season but also in the past. And Ross had a messed up head part of the year. And Ross isn't the one about to get the big payday.

    This is the third straight year where Salty has been solidly worse in CERA then his back up with head to head pitching. These facts have not changed no matter how hard anyone tries to present them otherwise. And that should at least cause some pause and concern.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    On Salty and CERA...

     

     



    Your information is incorrect with reguards to the Red coloring for Lackey's OPS advantage with Salty. Its not larger then .30 OPS advantage and so should be colored black. This also lowers your significant disparity department.

    I meant to say .025 on OPS against, but I admit my numbers are arbitrary in nature.

     

    Now to the bigger points. First, CERA takes into account base stealing, pass balls and wild pitches. OPS does not. And among these 10 pitchers "you" chose to focus on, its 6-4, advantage Ross in CERA.

    True, but one is 1.75 to 1.73 (Buchholtz), so my point that the seemingly wide disparity between Ross and salty on overall CERA, is in fact deceptive, since Ross has caught better pitchers more often.

     

     

    As for a large disparity[.65 or greater], Ross leads Salty 5-2 among the 10 pitchers you chose. And among pitchers who both caught atleast 20 innings each, its Ross 3-1, with a huge disparity advantage of 2-0.

    Good points.

     

    Second, shouldn't Salty have an advantage in these numbers anyway? He has caught most of these guys more then Ross, not just this season but also in the past. And Ross had a messed up head part of the year. And Ross isn't the one about to get the big payday.

    Yes, in past posts, I have mentioned that familiarity has helped Salty, and that it would hurt Lava if he becomes a major player in 2014. 

     

    This is the third straight year where Salty has been solidly worse in CERA then his back up with head to head pitching. These facts have not changed no matter how hard anyone tries to present them otherwise. And that should at least cause some pause and concern.

    Solidly worse?  6-4 with one guy having a 0.02 edge?

    My point is that Salty's overall number would be much closer to Ross' overall CERA and OPS against had he caught the same percentage of innings as Ross did. Here are some major percent disparities:

     (listed in order of best ERA)

    Starters

                 Salty   Ross

    Buch   6.1      15.4

    Lack  14.1       4.1

    Lest   14.2     28.9  (Ross pitched 44.3 of all his innings to Buch and Lester!)

    Peav    3.3       7.6

    (Salty caught about 38% of his innings with our top 4 starters: Ross caught 55% vs the same)

    Doub  13.7     4.0

    Demp 10.4    19.6

    (Salty caught 24.1% of his innings vs the worst 2 starters: Ross 23.6%)

     

    Don't you think this has a massive influence on overall CERA?

    Can you at least admit the disparity is not as great as the overall CERA differential indicates?

    Perhaps, I went overboard on claiming that Salty might be actually better than Ross after adjusting for innings with great, good or poor pitchers, but I do think the evidence shows they are at least very close to equal.

     

    Relievers (30+ IP) Much less inning sample sizes, so a much less influence on overall CERA.

             Salty   Ross

    Ueh   4.6    4.1

    Bres  4.2   2.4

    Miller 2.4  1.7

    Taza  4.8   6.1

    Acev  1.5   1.5

    Work 1.9   1.6

    Mort  2.5   2.4

    (Salty caught the top 4 relievers 16% of his innings: Ross caught the top 4 RP'ers 14.3%)

     

    The fact is, Salty has come a long way in at least closing the gap on CERA and other intangible areas. He has been steadily improving since about May of 2012. He is young enough to expect further improvement, and if VTek is any example, we could see great improvements after age 30-31.

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

     

    I have been impressed with Salty this year.  I think what I am most impressed with this year is his durability.  He really came through with a lot of innings caught when Ross was on the DL.  I have always liked his work ethic and how he puts handling his pitchers above his offense.  Whatever Salty contributes offensively is gravy, IMO.

    I am still not completely sold on his defense or on his handling the pitching staff.  He still rates negatively in DRS at -8, and his CERA (yes I'm aware of the SSS issue) still lags behind Ross' for our starters.

    That said, there are two positives for Salty regarding his work behind the plate.  One, I do feel like he continues to develop and improve.  Two, he knows the pitching staff well, and the pitchers are only going to get more comfortable with him.  While he might not be great, he is by no means a liability.

    I really hope that the Sox can re-sign him. 

     

     




    The way all of our pitchers speak about him, it souds like they are already very comfortable with him. Im sorry Kimmi, although I respect your opinions and knowlwdge with all the stats, catching defense is probably one of the toughest to determine. There are just too many intangibles that you dont see on a stat sheet. I like them to a point. Heres a good example, although not with a catcher. Stephen Drew has always been a good defender. Always. Ive seen him play a number of times before coming here and also interviewing a couple guys in the AZ organization. They all said he is a defensive metrics nightmare. Although the stats say hes had "limited range", if you watch him play you would have never guessed that. How many on this board were all over him about his poor defense, and throughout the year everyone changed their tune. They realized that if you know the batters tendencies, what pitch is being thrown, have quick reactions, and can anticipate where the ball is going, range doesnt matter much and really makes you look worse than you are. JD Drew was brilliant at that in RF. Didnt have to dive much because of this. He wasnt a burner who could run down a lot of balls, but he sure got great reads and jumps on balls hit his way.

     

    I like pitching and offensive stats and rely on them a lot more. I like defensive stats, but defense is too subjective to rely on it more than what you see with your own eyes. Compared to the league average on defense, Salty is slightly higher than average. Hes improved every year and theres no reason to think he wont continue to improved. Im not saying they are useless, because they are not. CERA is somewhat of a joke though, especially if you dont have about 3 years of comparable stats with the same 2 catchers catching the same pitchers about the same amount of times. And even then, if the pitcher is throwing a gem or totally has no feel for the ball, its not going to matter much what pitch the catcher calls or anything else.

    I think overall we agree about Salty, Kimmi, besides relying on defensive metrics.



    Completely agree with this, especially about Drew. I think he's amazing in the field. I don't understand why people see it differently. And he's smart about making split decisions on the field as to what to do with the ball. I bet there's no stat for that.

    I think Salty is a lot better now than he was when he first came here defensively. And he's had some pretty impressive catchers to learn from. This was a great place for him to hone his skills. I hope we keep him around.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to mef429's comment:

    i would not hesitate to sign salty to a 4 year deal. he's earned his money. improving every year both offensively and defensively, a leader on this team and has been extremely healthy (1 DL stint i believe. for a lower back issue a few years ago).

    we have no replacement for him and it's not going to break the bank to retain him. it's a no brainer to assume he will be on our team next year.

    Some say a storm is coming, Some say the end is near.

    Some think it's all so hazy, I think it's all so clear.

    Some say they have the answers, some say they know the truth.

    Some people live in question, some people have no clue.

    If there was no tomorrow, if there was just today.

    would you make different choices? or would you stay the same?




    Hey, mef, just an observation, but if you go to your profile and add a few lines before your sig line, it wouldn't run all into what you're saying in your posts.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    Salty from 2012 to 2013:

    Same number of games played (121): 22 more PAs (470).

    11 less HRs, but 23 more 2Bs.

    6 more RBI and 13 more runs scored.

    50 point gain in OBP (to .338).

    12 point gain in SLG% (to .466)

    62 point gain in OPS to .804.

    He had just 7 PBs in 1004 innings compared to 6 PBs in 852 innings in 2012.

    89SB/24 CS in 2013 from 80/18 in 2012.

    His CERA improved greatly from 2012 pitcher by pitcher and overall.

    The staff seems very comfortable with him.

     

    Yes, he had a .372 BAbip number, but don't think it was all luck that his OBP rose so much.  His BB% went from 8.5% to 9.1%. His LD% went from 22.8% to 28.6%. He had 19 more line drives in 2013 than 2012 and 26 more hits.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    No doubt everyone has their fan favorite and Salty is mine. Even though I have no problem discussing and acknowledging his shortcomings ( doesn't every player have them?) it's nice to be able to give him a shout out and a congratulations.

    I have to say I was a little surprised no one posted about Salty breaking the Red Sox record for most doubles by a catcher. He hit his 40th last night..and became only the 13th Sox catcher to do so since 1901.

    This is a nice accomplishment for a catcher..especially when you consider that no position on a baseball team works harder than the catcher. Salty has put up some of the best offensive numbers of his career this season and even if he doesn't return in a Sox uniform next season, he's definitely setting himself up well for free agency.

    Salty had a better year than DAD & BILL-806 thought he would have, that being said, will be interesting to see what happens this winter on his next years residence !!


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    I've advocated retaining Salty since he was acquired on what was a good value move. However, not as the long term full-time catcher. His multi-year contract offer should reflect a role that is part-time catcher and 1st/DH. The Red Sox have promising young natural defensive catching talent on the farm, and the plan should be to promote it.

    Salty has handled his role exceptionally well this season, but the coaching staff is the difference maker on the team labor performance turnaround. 




    I too have been advocating they keep Salty when he got traded to the Sox....Do I get a cookie??

    As for the prospects...have you actually seen Vazquez or the other play?  I have seen him play at least a dozen times this year and I'll tell you....the kid can field...but he needs to learn to hit still.  He had a solid season but he needs to prove himself for another season or two before he is even a thought to play in MLB.  (Look what happened to your hero JBJ!  The kid simply wasn't ready for the limelight....hopefully he can produce next year when the pressure is on for filling the big void left by Ells)

    WE KNOW that Salty is a very good catcher and has the respect of the pitching staff plus he is very above average in terms of offensive catchers.  Re0sign him and use our deep catching prospects as trade bait for a solid hitting OF or center fielder......

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to Kingface12's comment:

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

     

    I've advocated retaining Salty since he was acquired on what was a good value move. However, not as the long term full-time catcher. His multi-year contract offer should reflect a role that is part-time catcher and 1st/DH. The Red Sox have promising young natural defensive catching talent on the farm, and the plan should be to promote it.

    Salty has handled his role exceptionally well this season, but the coaching staff is the difference maker on the team labor performance turnaround. 

     




    I too have been advocating they keep Salty when he got traded to the Sox....Do I get a cookie??

     

    As for the prospects...have you actually seen Vazquez or the other play?  I have seen him play at least a dozen times this year and I'll tell you....the kid can field...but he needs to learn to hit still.  He had a solid season but he needs to prove himself for another season or two before he is even a thought to play in MLB.  (Look what happened to your hero JBJ!  The kid simply wasn't ready for the limelight....hopefully he can produce next year when the pressure is on for filling the big void left by Ells)

    WE KNOW that Salty is a very good catcher and has the respect of the pitching staff plus he is very above average in terms of offensive catchers.  Re0sign him and use our deep catching prospects as trade bait for a solid hitting OF or center fielder......



    Offering him part-time money is the same as saying you want him gone. Don't be fooled by clown doublespeak.

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSPCB73. Show RSPCB73's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    I'm guessing RS sign Salty for 4 years at $45-$50 MM.

    Red Sox in 2013 World Series, Patriots in 2014 Super Bowl!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to RSPCB73's comment:

    I'm guessing RS sign Salty for 4 years at $45-$50 MM.

    Red Sox in 2013 World Series, Patriots in 2014 Super Bowl!



    I agree. I think he gets at least $48M/4, and will walk for anything less than $14/1, $26/2, or $38/3.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    Preserved for future fib-catching....

     

    Re: What would you do this offseason?

    posted at 9/25/2013 2:32 PM EDT

    Free Agents selling Manic Labor promises:


    Budget market base with intent to retain up to limited years that could be below market:

    Salty- Offer him 2 years @ base 10 with maximum CBA allowed incentives and a team option 3rd year with a 2M buyout and a player opt out. Be prepared to match any market offers guaranteeing up to 3 years and 30M. Do not budget anything more than that to retain Salty

    Free Agents to stay away from and QO/draft compensation,  only if market is such that they will turn it down

    Ellsbury -  QO and tell Red Sox fans a bobble head statue with a DL and .779 jersey is being considered (This guy ends up with a broken foot but he and his agent immediately say he'll be back before the season is over and play on the broken foot, a perfect ending to describe the kind of constitution and character this career .789 OPS part-time player is. What a great day for the Red Sox on the team leadership and value and fit front. His market value will end up some where between 75M and 100M guaranteed, and he can thank another prima donna jitterbug bust in Carl Crawbust for the fact Jake aint gettin' any 152M. The Red Sox can budget half that amount on the OF and budget it elsewhere over the next 4 or 5 years)

    Napoli - QO and management and ownership should take out a Boston Globe and online ad that thanks him for being one of the better FA values and fits in recent years. But they need to move on and stay away from 2 and 3 year 30 to 4OM guaranteed deals for this career part-timer who has just finished one of his best work record season in his career. Don't pay for it, make the QO and move on.

    S. Drew - middle infielder FA marekt for 2014 isn't a buyer's or labor seller's market. It is likely that the 32 year old 10 million dollar bad wheel and poor range and .750 to .775 OPS  part-timer absurdly expensive version of Jed Lowrie middle infielder will get a 2 year guaranteed deal of 20 to 25M that he'll take. But unless Red Sox management is nearly certain that's the case and Drew will turn down a QO, do not make this guy a QO. He wasn't needed for 2013 in the first place, and he's certainly not needed for 2014 and beyond.

    Free Agents to budget for and Target:

    OF: 1. Choo Offer 3 years and 45M and budget up to 52M. Choo is a far superior fit over Ellsbury, with a career OBP of .389 and a caeer .855 OPS with a career .934 OPS v. RP and a 2013 OPS v RP over 1.000. 2013 OPS is .891. Steals about 20 bases a season. A year older than Ellsbury which equates to better value. Ellsbury has a higher NL value and Choo has a higher AL value.  With Victorino, Choo is a much better fit than Pence

    2. Pence If Choo's market is higher than value based budget, offer Pence 3 years and 40M and budget up to 47M

    2014 OF depth chart:

    LF Choo or Pence or Nava and/or Gomes 

    CF Victorino and/or Bradley 

    RF Choo or Pence or Victorino or Nava     

    IF: 1. Morales Offer 3 years and 40M

         2. Youk Offer 1 year at market which is likely going to be 1 to 2M max

    2014 IF depth chart:

    1B: Morales or Youk/Nava

    2B: Pedroia/Holt (UIFer)

    SS: Bogaerts/Holt

    3B: Middlebrooks/Holt (Cechhini call-up)

    2014 Rotation Depth Chart:

    Lester

    Buch

    Lackey

    Doubrant 

    Dempster (may as well use him as he's a write off)

    Workman

    Renaudo

    Webster

    Shuttles: Morales & Tazawa

     

    Winter TradesPeavy goes to the highest bidder with farm scrap due for .6 million Villareal, throw him in with Aceves. This bad trade prima donna Peavy hasn't pitched more than 150 innings in a season but one time since 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Huge 4.0 plus ERA AL bust for the White Sox. At age 33, he will still have a lot of NL allure. something Dumpster won't have beyond the minor league level. Peavy's value is terrible because of both lack of high quality and a problem showing up for work (You can have too much overpriced and low innings and overpriced quality pitching, see Jake Prima Donna Peavy)

    Ross this was a 2 year deal for a 1 year market old veteran, see Gomes. With Lavarnway and Swihart et al and Salty almost surely retained from the offer budge, supra, Ross's 3.1 million 2nd year needs to written down or off to the highest bidder who will ask for the least amount of cash and send a 35 year old career minor leaguer to make Cherry's GM incompetence look better to those who don't pay attention

    Carp sell high to the highest bidder on this part-timer fluke season, and give his role exclusively to Nava

    Players to be retained through Option pick-ups and Arbitration process:

    Uehara - (Most important and best value and fit FA contract offer in years, too bad this value and fit is nearly erased by virtue of Hammerhand's 7M)

    BrittonDe La RossaDoubrantMoralesTazawaWebster (caveat, I know Webster), WorkmanWrightLavarnwayBogaertsHoltMiddlebrooks , Bradley,NavaKalishMillerWilsonBeatoButlerHassanVazquez

    Gone under their own weight non-tender and expiring contracts/options declined:

    Gagne, I mean Joel Hammeredhand (Seriously, how idiotic was this move 7M total loss)

    Thornton <burst of laughter> (Seriously, how unneeded and useless whas this value bust)

    Bailey (What was this about??????????)

    McDonald

    Snyder

    Berry


    2014 Payroll coming off of about 54M to Peavy, Ellsbury, Drew, Napoli, which doesn't include the payroll coming off the pen from Hammerhand and Bailey. Some of the pen budget used in 2014 will need to be used for pen changes and arbitration increases. 

    Morales and Pence or Choo is about 30M back on the books for 2014, and Salty is another 7M raise costs, so that's about 37M back on the books but putting more reserve for 2014 and years to come to retain flexibility on value and fit dynamics of labor

    They could go cheap with Youk platooning and increased platooning in the OF, but I don't think that would be wise roster construction. They better get either Choo or Pence and pick-up Morales who can split more time at DH when Ortiz leaves at the end of next season. Cechhini is the clear 3B value and fit option after 2013, with Middlebrooks a good value and fit to move to 1B for 2015 and have Morales move to mostly DH.

     

    Let's not make FA mistakes like Hammerhand and Drew and Dumpster, and the grand daddy of incompetence Crawbust, just to name a few. Let's not throw a ton of money on Ellsbury in his early to mid 30's, and Napoli and heaven forbid another season of the 10M Jed Lowrielike SS who wasn't ever needed.

    Sox4ever

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Congratulations Salty!!

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    With the option about 22M. I said to budget "about 26M", which is a slight value overpay. Thanks for posting that.



    softy: Be prepared to match any market offers guaranteeing up to 3 years and 30M. Do not budget anything more than that to retain Salty

    Then this, seconds later: I said to budget "about 26M", which is a slight value overpay. 

     

    Isn't offering $26M/2 "budgeting more" than $22M/2?

    softy: Salty- Offer him 2 years @ base 10 with maximum CBA allowed incentives and a team option 3rd year with a 2M buyout and a player opt out. Be prepared to match any market offers guaranteeing up to 3 years and 30M.

     

    Man! Your lies are staring you right in the face and you keep going on.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share