Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    I was listening to Dennis and Callahan yesterday and Callahan brought up this question.  Assuming Ellsbury continues to get better (which it appears he is even as this season progresses), is it possible that he's on pace to become regarded as the best player in the game?  They didn't mean best hitter as much as they did "best all around player".  They threw Grady Sizemore's name in as an example of a guy who was on pace to be that guy before being derailed by injuries.

    Even this season, a strong finish could have Ellsbury around...

    .315, 30HR, 100 RBI, 200 hits, 45 stolen bases, 521 slugging % (10th in the league and ahead of Mark Teixeira)... I mean those stats are just the complete package.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    Answer:  NO.

    Can he be in the top 15, why not.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    See Crawford 2010, without Agon and Pedroia 2011. Agon and Pedroia 2011 are Ellsbury 2011. Agon is the head, Pedroia is the heart, Ortiz the spirit, and Ellsbury is the tail. Put him in Seattle and the hyperbole will vanish in the return of career averages or less.

    Anyone not recognizing what Agon's impact is does not understand baseball. Not surprised to see focus on Ellsbury and off Agon. Agon 2011 remains Agon 2012 et seq. IF Ellsbury is banned for hgh or traded anywhere but NY, pilly or texas, Ellsbury shrinks while Agon remains Agon 2011.  If Agon goes down long term with injury, watch the incredible shrinking Ellsbury take place.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    See Crawford 2010, without Agon and Pedroia 2011. Agon and Pedroia 2011 are Ellsbury 2011. Agon is the head, Pedroia is the heart, Ortiz the spirit, and Ellsbury is the tail. Put him in Seattle and the hyperbole will vanish in the return of career averages or less. Anyone not recognizing what Agon's impact is does not understand baseball. Not surprised to see focus on Ellsbury and off Agon. Agon 2011 reamins Agon 2012 et seq. if Ellsbury is banned for hgh or traded anywhere but NY, pilly or texas. If Agon goes down long term with injury, watch the incredible shrinking Ellsbury take place.
    Posted by S0ftl@w


    Oh right, because A-Gon bats right in front of or right after Ellsbury.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    Ellsbury now has 81 RBI with 33 games left in the season.  He needs 19 more to reach 100 RBI.  Based on some quick research, only one player in history has had 100 RBI from the leadoff spot-Darin Erstad in 2000.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    No, because Pedroia 2011 and Agon hit in front of the tail.

    Sure, keep believing Ellsbury can do this in Seattle on Mariners. Keep forgetting what makes a superstar. Agon in San Diego, Manny in Cleveland, that's what makes a superstar. Elllsbury is a tail. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    Ellsbury now has 81 RBI with 33 games left in the season.  He needs 19 more to reach 100 RBI.  Based on some quick research, only one player in history has had 100 RBI from the leadoff spot-Darin Erstad in 2000.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut
    I wonder how many guys have 30 steals, 30 HR and 100 rbi? Never mind out of the leadoff spot.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    No, because Pedroia 2011 and Agon hit in front of the tail. Sure, keep believing Ellsbury can do this in Seattle on Mariners. Keep forgetting what makes a superstar. Agon in San Diego, Manny in Cleveland, that's what makes a superstar. Elllsbury is a tail. 
    Posted by S0ftl@w


    Try again. Who is Jake driving in with all these RBI's?  Does he have the same opportunities he allows others? Lazy poster who tries BSing people into thinking he researched Jake's pitch accumulation, crediting others for Jake's success. Uses fastball fat-city and tail as his new slang.

    Manny was a juicer.
    AGONE hit .270 in Petco.
    Fenway doesn't play into Ellsbury's game as it does AGONE's.
    Just comparing the two ruins UR case.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    Anyone using BA for what Agon did for Padres is a total dimwit. Ellsbury is reaping off of pitchers not wanting to face Pedroia and Agon.

    When Ellsbury breaks pink hat hearts and takes his superstar act elsewhere, he will show how inferior he is to Crawford, another fools gold profile.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    Ellsbury now has 81 RBI with 33 games left in the season.  He needs 19 more to reach 100 RBI.  Based on some quick research, only one player in history has had 100 RBI from the leadoff spot-Darin Erstad in 2000.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    And Erstad was the "best player in the game"?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    Best player in the game is hyperbole, but top 15, as suggested above, is not.

    Softlaw is even more hyperbolic trying to suggest that Ellsbury's season is dependent on AGon, and just one stat puts the lie to that suggestion:  81 rbi's from the leadoff position, which means that every single rbi comes from driving in the members of the lower third of the Sox batting order.  He is also 2d in the AL in runs, 3d in hits, 8th in OPS, , 6th in batting average, and is now regarded as an excellent centerfielder.  Oh, and he can steal a base or two now and then. 

    I don't think we can give too much credit to AGon this year--average, rbi's, dingers (down a little but who cares?), opposite field hitting, great defense, personality, etc.  But softlaw needs to recognize that Adrian Gonzalez too is having a career year, no doubt because he is followed by Youk and Ortiz and preceded by Jake and Pedey.  There is an undeniable synergism among those five, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the Red Sox have far and away the best leadoff hitter in MLB and one of the best overall (hitting and fielding) outfielders, period.   WAR puts him first among all centefielders in MLB and 2d among all outfielders in MLB. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years? : And Erstad was the "best player in the game"?
    Posted by BurritoT
    He was in the discussion that year.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

     81 rbi's from the leadoff position, which means that every single rbi comes from driving in the members of the lower third of the Sox batting order.

    Pedroia 2011 and Agon are the reason for the 81 rbi's spike. Put Ellsbury in Seattle and prime years Ichiro will look like the best baseball player in history.
     
    Agon isn't having a career year. His current career year was 2009. Which is why you dimwits are drooling over DEnnis and Cucumber radio and failing to grasp what a superstar is. Agon would be a star wherever he goes. Ellsbury is Red Sox hype which will be exposed when he leaves, unless Texas, Philly or Yankees are stupid enough to give him a giant contract.

    On independent but related issue, no way I'd endorse another big contract without a provision that says if the new CBA allows hgh testing and a player tests positive then the entire contract is voided and player owes damages for prior payments.

    Theo is a dim bulb who pays no attention to PED issue, now hgh driven instead of AS driven. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
     81 rbi's from the leadoff position, which means that every single rbi comes from driving in the members of the lower third of the Sox batting order. Pedroia 2011 and Agon are the reason for the 81 rbi's spike. Put Ellsbury in Seattle and prime years Ichiro will look like the best baseball player in history.   Agon isn't having a career year. His current career year was 2009. Which is why you dimwits are drooling over DEnnis and Cucumber radio and failing to grasp what a superstar is. Agon would be a star wherever he goes. Ellsbury is Red Sox hype which will be exposed when he leaves, unless Texas, Philly or Yankees are stupid enough to give him a giant contract. On independent but related issue, no way I'd endorse another big contract without a provision that says if the new CBA allows hgh testing and a player tests positive then the entire contract is voided and player owes damages for prior payments. Theo is a dim bulb who pays no attention to PED issue, now hgh driven instead of AS driven. 
    Posted by S0ftl@w


    Gardner and Jeter of NYY both have great hitters behind them and are nowhere near as many rbi's. 

    AGon hit .277 in 2009 and had 99 rbi's, so it would appear that your one and only criterion for a career year is dingers, which in his case were 40 in 2009.  But he had 36 in 2008 and 20 more rbi's in 2008.

    This year AGon is leading MLB in batting average and rbi's and you don't think he is having a career year?  Wow.  And you don't think having Ellsbury and Pedroia ahead of him and Youk and Ortiz behind him have helped?  Wow again.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    See Crawford 2010, without Agon and Pedroia 2011. Agon and Pedroia 2011 are Ellsbury 2011. Agon is the head, Pedroia is the heart, Ortiz the spirit, and Ellsbury is the tail. Put him in Seattle and the hyperbole will vanish in the return of career averages or less. Anyone not recognizing what Agon's impact is does not understand baseball. Not surprised to see focus on Ellsbury and off Agon. Agon 2011 remains Agon 2012 et seq. IF Ellsbury is banned for hgh or traded anywhere but NY, pilly or texas, Ellsbury shrinks while Agon remains Agon 2011.  If Agon goes down long term with injury, watch the incredible shrinking Ellsbury take place.
    Posted by S0ftl@w


    Softy,

    As usual, you live up to your name, SOFT. Soft as a grape. 

    Hetchinspete !! 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    Gardner and Jeter of NYY both have great hitters behind them and are nowhere near as many rbi's.

    A-Rod has been out a lot of the year and Tex is having a down year on OPS+.
    Jeter and Gardner are having good years despite that fact.

    AGon hit .277 in 2009 and had 99 rbi's, so it would appear that your one and only criterion for a career year is dingers, which in his case were 40 in 2009.

    OPS+, is my criteria. Don't pretend Agon is having a career year. He's a superstar because he already had a career year in San Diego, For Pesky sake.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    You don't get it and are unable to grasp what a superstar is. It isn't a tail.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
     81 rbi's from the leadoff position, which means that every single rbi comes from driving in the members of the lower third of the Sox batting order. Pedroia 2011 and Agon are the reason for the 81 rbi's spike. Put Ellsbury in Seattle and prime years Ichiro will look like the best baseball player in history.   Agon isn't having a career year. His current career year was 2009. Which is why you dimwits are drooling over DEnnis and Cucumber radio and failing to grasp what a superstar is. Agon would be a star wherever he goes. Ellsbury is Red Sox hype which will be exposed when he leaves, unless Texas, Philly or Yankees are stupid enough to give him a giant contract. On independent but related issue, no way I'd endorse another big contract without a provision that says if the new CBA allows hgh testing and a player tests positive then the entire contract is voided and player owes damages for prior payments. Theo is a dim bulb who pays no attention to PED issue, now hgh driven instead of AS driven. 
    Posted by S0ftl@w


    Instead, I've another idea. Why don't you move to Seattle and bother all of those poor souls up there until they they get tired of your act like we are.

    Hetchinspete.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    I have a better idea. Why don't you stop driveling on your keyboard. Location is not known for Board access, unless you violate the law;) You are posting from prison, I'm posting from Australia.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    Gardner and Jeter of NYY both have great hitters behind them and are nowhere near as many rbi's. A-Rod has been out a lot of the year and Tex is having a down year on OPS+. Jeter and Gardner are having good years despite that fact. AGon hit .277 in 2009 and had 99 rbi's, so it would appear that your one and only criterion for a career year is dingers, which in his case were 40 in 2009. OPS+, is my criteria. Don't pretend Agon is having a career year. He's a superstar because he already had a career year in San Diego, For Pesky sake.
    Posted by S0ftl@w


    Granderson, Teixeira, and Cano are all having good years and Granderson a spectacular year.  ARod hasn't been missed much. 

    Calling Ellsbury the "tail" is very misleading.  Heck, he even has more dingers than AGon and more runs scored.  If anything, he has cut back on SB attempts in part because of Pedroia and AGon following him.

    OPS + would appear to correlate most closely with number of dingers.  When a player hits .277 one year and .350 or so two years later, most people would call the second year a much better year.  I also think it has helped AGon to be in the middle of five very good hitters in 2011--for big chunks of this season all five have been in the top ten in the AL in OPS.  The synergism of those five makes them all better even though Jake has more rbi's than Ortiz, Youk, or Pedroia. 

    There can be no question AGon has made a big difference to this lineup, but he has also been helped by it. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    boy, that Ellsbury sure is  a menace...Tongue out
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    No, because Pedroia 2011 and Agon hit in front of the tail. Sure, keep believing Ellsbury can do this in Seattle on Mariners. Keep forgetting what makes a superstar. Agon in San Diego, Manny in Cleveland, that's what makes a superstar. Elllsbury is a tail. 
    Posted by S0ftl@w


    Just give it up, you are flat out wrong about Ellsbury's "ceiling" and stubborn foolishness keeps you making a jacka## out of yourself with every bash  Ellsbury post you put on the forum.  The kid is a great player end of discussion.  Any intelligent, rational, positive, baseball fan can see this.  You are dead wrong!  It is time to find another sox player to inflict your tiresome venom on!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1for89. Show 1for89's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    Didn't they already build his wing at the HOF?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    See Crawford 2010, without Agon and Pedroia 2011. Agon and Pedroia 2011 are Ellsbury 2011. Agon is the head, Pedroia is the heart, Ortiz the spirit, and Ellsbury is the tail. Put him in Seattle and the hyperbole will vanish in the return of career averages or less. Anyone not recognizing what Agon's impact is does not understand baseball. Not surprised to see focus on Ellsbury and off Agon. Agon 2011 remains Agon 2012 et seq. IF Ellsbury is banned for hgh or traded anywhere but NY, pilly or texas, Ellsbury shrinks while Agon remains Agon 2011.  If Agon goes down long term with injury, watch the incredible shrinking Ellsbury take place.
    Posted by S0ftl@w


    Great point.  This definitely explains the spark he's added in the last two games.  He had the superstar Scutaro hitting behind him.
    Having great hitters behind him has resulted in him getting better pitches to hit, it's also resulted in him having fewer stolen bases and fewer walks.  In case you didn't realize it, OBP is a part of OPS.  His OBP is lower because of the players hitting behind him.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from <>.The-Babe.<>. Show <>.The-Babe.<>'s posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    I was listening to Dennis and Callahan yesterday and Callahan brought up this question.  Assuming Ellsbury continues to get better (which it appears he is even as this season progresses), is it possible that he's on pace to become regarded as the best player in the game?  They didn't mean best hitter as much as they did "best all around player".  They threw Grady Sizemore's name in as an example of a guy who was on pace to be that guy before being derailed by injuries. Even this season, a strong finish could have Ellsbury around... .315, 30HR, 100 RBI, 200 hits, 45 stolen bases, 521 slugging % (10th in the league and ahead of Mark Teixeira)... I mean those stats are just the complete package. Thoughts?

    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988

    It's amazing what big papi's milkshakes can do for a player.

     
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