Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from <>.The-Babe.<>. Show <>.The-Babe.<>'s posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years? : One is 11, the other is 14. Not exactly a far cry, but whatever ... Again, it's his third full season. Seriously, this is beneath you.

    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    One is a complete season and one is not. By the time this season ends ellsbury will probably have tripled his previous high, big difference.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years? : One is a complete season and one is not. By the time this season ends ellsbury will probably have tripled his previous high, big difference.
    Posted by < />.The-Babe.< />[/QUOTE]
    You mean like Jeter nearly did when he went from 10 to 24 from 1997 to '99?

    Look, I understand where you're coming from. You hate the Red Sox, so you enjoy launching baseless accusations. And I'll admit, a lot of Red Sox fans do the same thing regarding your team. Part of the rivalry, I guess. Me, unless I have any evidence, I stay away from it. (Oh, and for the record, I was not suggesting Jeter juiced, only pointing out a parallel).

    Remember, they actually test for that stuff now, and the penalty for first violation is 50 games.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years? : One is a complete season and one is not. By the time this season ends ellsbury will probably have tripled his previous high, big difference.
    Posted by < />.The-Babe.< />[/QUOTE]

    Seriously give it up, no one honestly gives a rat's behind what you think anyway!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from <>.The-Babe.<>. Show <>.The-Babe.<>'s posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years? : You mean like Jeter nearly did when he went from 10 to 24 from 1997 to '99? Look, I understand where you're coming from. You hate the Red Sox, so you enjoy launching baseless accusations. And I'll admit, a lot of Red Sox fans do the same thing regarding your team. Part of the rivalry, I guess. Me, unless I have any evidence, I stay away from it. (Oh, and for the record, I was not suggesting Jeter juiced, only pointing out a parallel). Remember, they actually test for that stuff now, and the penalty for first violation is 50 games.

    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    ells should share some with agon........

     
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    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years? : You mean like Jeter nearly did when he went from 10 to 24 from 1997 to '99? Look, I understand where you're coming from. You hate the Red Sox, so you enjoy launching baseless accusations. And I'll admit, a lot of Red Sox fans do the same thing regarding your team. Part of the rivalry, I guess. Me, unless I have any evidence, I stay away from it. (Oh, and for the record, I was not suggesting Jeter juiced, only pointing out a parallel). Remember, they actually test for that stuff now, and the penalty for first violation is 50 games.

    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    And Jeter went from 10 to 19 to 24....slightly different than 9 to 8 to 23+

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]Best in the game? Not likely. Rickey Henderson was probably never considered the best in the game at point in his career but he was with little argument the best leadoff hitter of "all-time". He is having a great year. The progression a lot of people thought Jacoby would show as he matured is becoming a reality.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    I think in 1990 Henderson was widely considered the best player in the game, at least for that year.  His power and average were a bit erratic from year to year - one year he would hit 28 HRs and bat .325, and the next year he would hit 12 HRs and hit .270.  He was always well regareded, but in this era, with the prevalence of OBP and OPS stats I think he would have received even more respect.  Imagine what Ellsbury's stats would look like if he had the plate discipline of a Rickey Henderson.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    Have to agree with Softee on this one ... Els is great, but PD and Gonzo are a huge reason why he is having such a great year. 

    Gonzo leads the league in hits.  He can hit anything.  PD has become PD again, and what else is there to say.  Els gets good balls to hit because they won't pitch around him to get to PD then Gonzo ... that would be suicide.  

    Pitchers have intentionally walked Gonzo with Youk up next, who would have thought that would ever happen?  But the point is NOBODY walks Els to get to PD, and NOBODY walks PD to get to Gonzo.   Els gets pitches to hit because of this.    

    Els has played great, no doubt.  If he does this again next year, I would say he has arrived.   Bay had a great year here too.    Els will always have skills, but to say he will be one of the best is a tough call at this point. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]No, because Pedroia 2011 and Agon hit in front of the tail. Sure, keep believing Ellsbury can do this in Seattle on Mariners. Keep forgetting what makes a superstar. Agon in San Diego, Manny in Cleveland, that's what makes a superstar. Elllsbury is a tail. 
    Posted by S0ftl@w[/QUOTE]

    Only our board jester would dare compare Gonzo and his AAA lineup in SD to Manny and his lineup in Cleveland

    I'd love to hit in the middle of...

    Kenny Lofton
    Robbie Alomar
    David Justice

    Jim Thome
    Richie Sexson
    Sandy Alomar
    Omar Vizquel
    Travis Fryman

    utility guys were...

    Carlos Baerga
    Dave Roberts
    Harold Baines
    Russell Branyan

    Those 96-01 Indians scored 900+ runs on a regular basis

    Man, Softy is on a role of idiocy today... so soon after being banned too

    Winnah
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from theYAZZER. Show theYAZZER's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years? : It's amazing what big papi's milkshakes can do for a player.
    Posted by < />.The-Babe.<>[/QUOTE]

    i wonder if ortiz and colon share the same straw?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]Have to agree with Softee on this one ... Els is great, but PD and Gonzo are a huge reason why he is having such a great year.  Gonzo leads the league in hits.  He can hit anything.  PD has become PD again, and what else is there to say.  Els gets good balls to hit because they won't pitch around him to get to PD then Gonzo ... that would be suicide.   Pitchers have intentionally walked Gonzo with Youk up next, who would have thought that would ever happen?  But the point is NOBODY walks Els to get to PD, and NOBODY walks PD to get to Gonzo.   Els gets pitches to hit because of this.     Els has played great, no doubt.  If he does this again next year, I would say he has arrived.   Bay had a great year here too.    Els will always have skills, but to say he will be one of the best is a tough call at this point. 
    Posted by soxmeister[/QUOTE]

    When Pedey, Bay and Youk hit behind Ells in '09... and combined for about 80 HR's, 175 RBI's and a .900 OPS, everyone RIPPED into Ells for having  .347 OBP, .750 OPS and 4 Hr's in his 500 AB's from the leadoff spot.

    In 2009 Ells also had VMart hit 15 HR's, 67 RBI's and a .912 OPS down the stretch (last 56 games) after the trade and Papi catch fire 2nd half of the year with 20 HR's, 60 RBI and an .885 OPS after the all-star break.

    So when we had FIVE dominant hitters down the stretch in '09 people were often upset with Ells...and now we have THREE (4 if you consider the injured Youk and his mediocre .266/.380/.881 line) dominant hitters and Ells is hitting..

    .322/.378/.902 in 475 AB's from leadoff w/ 20 of his 21 HR's and 73 of his 81 RBI.

    ...and it is because of the hitters behind him????

    hahahahahahahahaha
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    When Damon had Nomar-Manny-Ortiz behind him in 2003, putting up all-star/HOF numbers for a historic offense he hit .272/.345 with 12 HR's

    I guess Ells 2011 season clearly shows him to be better than 'ol Johnny
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    ram, great use of facts to show how slanted and prejudiced some so-called fans are flapping around trying to "prove" they are right. Ells is having a great season, based solely on his skill and the work he has obviously put in to improve his game. All Sox fans should be singing his praises.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]When Damon had Nomar-Manny-Ortiz behind him in 2003, putting up all-star/HOF numbers for a historic offense he hit .272/.345 with 12 HR's I guess Ells 2011 season clearly shows him to be better than 'ol Johnny
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Maybe, but Ortiz wasn't big Papi until half way through the year in 2003, at which point Damon's average jumped 30 points, followed by his best season with the Sox in 2004.  I don't want to take anything away from Ellsbury, but there's no doubt it helps to have good hitters behind you, and in the case of Ellsbury & Damon, if you're a right-handed pitcher, you have to go after them with Papi and Gonzalez looming.


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years? : Maybe, but Ortiz wasn't big Papi until half way through the year in 2003, at which point Damon's average jumped 30 points, followed by his best season with the Sox in 2004.  I don't want to take anything away from Ellsbury, but there's no doubt it helps to have good hitters behind you, and in the case of Ellsbury & Damon, if you're a right-handed pitcher, you have to go after them with Papi and Gonzalez looming.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Of course. Good find on the Damon avg jump. Other points to be made tho are his fangraphs value of 14.3 million in 2004. Ellsbury was at 19 million in 09 and at 30.5 million if this season ended today.

    I personally only ever said Ells would top out in his prime with a career like Damon. I actually said less OBP and more steals.... but overall the same stats.

    The power jump has been impressive. But Ells was not even a 10 HR .350 OBP guy in 2009 when he had a far more fearsome quintet of hitters to navigate thru behind him then now. Pitchers likely saw him as the 'easy out' in our 1-7 or even 1-8.

    Now you hear what opponants say about him? That he is a stud, ripping everything, refined approach, professional hitter, etc.

    He made the jump from 'good solid starter' to 'all-star' this year. If he has 2-3 years like this we can put him in the top 25 players and top 12 hitters in the game.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    Heck, he even has more dingers than AGon and more runs scored.

    Put him in Seattle leadoff and see how many runs he scores.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]ram, great use of facts to show how slanted and prejudiced some so-called fans are flapping around trying to "prove" they are right. Ells is having a great season, based solely on his skill and the work he has obviously put in to improve his game. All Sox fans should be singing his praises.
    Posted by devildavid[/QUOTE]

    Thanks

    There are numerous examples (for those who search) of good leadoff guys with great hitters behind them who have some mediocre looking years or at least worse ones than Ells.

    Some of the best lineups in the history of the game were the Indians of the mid-late 90's. Kenny Lofton had some tremendous steals and OBP years. But he also had an OPS around .800, often below .800, never clsoe to Ells of 2011.

    He had MANY .260-.285 avg seasons.

    I alreayd brought up Damon, who nevfer had a season like Ells is having now despite being in better lineups.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    The board jester is crying his hate into the wind...hahaha

    stats proved him wrong again this thread

    his ellsbury drivel and racism is well-known and he is constantly humilated with the truth. Sad reviled man. I pity him.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]Jacoby Ellsbury's age 27 season this year resembles Darin Erstad's age 26 season in 2000: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/erstada01.shtml Ellsbury and Erstad could have similar careers ... or not. Some more Ellsbury comps: http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/14137
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]
    Excellent link.  My god, that Hanley Ramirez '07 season was epic!

    And to answer the OP, no he won't be the "best player in the game" but he certainly has potential to be one of the top X (idk, 10? 15? ... who knows).  Either way, he's having a great year and is an integral part of our great lineup.  Let's hope CC continues an upward trend into the playoffs and Youk comes back playing like, well, Youk.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from <>.The-Babe.<>. Show <>.The-Babe.<>'s posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]Heck, he even has more dingers than AGon and more runs scored. Put him in Seattle leadoff and see how many runs he scores.

    Posted by S0ftl@w[/QUOTE]

    Geez...they same could be said about anyone.

    How many runs do you think your boy kemp would score batting leadoff in seattle?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    and I'd love to put Ells in Seattle

    Ellsbury and Buchholz (with Jenks thrown in)

    for King Felix and Ichiro

    1 year of Ichiro at 17 million. He is 37 and having a bad year. He has had 3,600 hits since 1993...haha... as the ignorant bellow 'its all about the lineup' maybe we can get one more .300/.360 year out of Ichiro with 200 hits.

    Seattle gets their hometown star and extends him on Borad's terms. We get 17m off the books after 2012 to go after Kemp.

    Ichiro
    Crawford
    Pedroia
    AGon
    Youk
    Papi

    is a scary 1-6 and Felix just makes our rotation so dominant
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    Put him in Seattle leadoff and see how many runs he scores.

    Unfortunately, to be honest, the same could be said about Pedroia. His career home/away splits are quite telling. Playing "what if" is meaningless. Ellsbury is a very good player this season for the Boston Red Sox. That is a fact. Put Gonzo on the Mariners and watch his numbers drop as well. None of this speculation proves anything.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]Put him in Seattle leadoff and see how many runs he scores. Unfortunately, to be honest, the same could be said about Pedroia. His career home/away splits are quite telling. Playing "what if" is meaningless. Ellsbury is a very good player this season for the Boston Red Sox. That is a fact. Put Gonzo on the Mariners and watch his numbers drop as well. None of this speculation proves anything.
    Posted by devildavid[/QUOTE]

    don't have to tell us the board jester uses meaningless stats and pointless statements to 'help' his hateful opinions when stats and facts have proven him wrongLaughing
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    In Response to Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?:
    [QUOTE]and I'd love to put Ells in Seattle Ellsbury and Buchholz (with Jenks thrown in) for King Felix and Ichiro 1 year of Ichiro at 17 million. He is 37 and having a bad year. He has had 3,600 hits since 1993...haha... as the ignorant bellow 'its all about the lineup' maybe we can get one more .300/.360 year out of Ichiro with 200 hits. Seattle gets their hometown star and extends him on Borad's terms. We get 17m off the books after 2012 to go after Kemp. Ichiro Crawford Pedroia AGon Youk Papi is a scary 1-6 and Felix just makes our rotation so dominant
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Bad deal.  Ellsbury has shot way past Ichiro and is 10 years younger with a lot more HR power.  Hernandez is better than Buchholz, but not that much better, plus he has never pitched a full season in the AL East. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from S0ftl@w. Show S0ftl@w's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    Have to agree with Softee on this one ... Els is great, but PD and Gonzo are a huge reason why he is having such a great year.

    Gonzo leads the league in hits. He can hit anything. PD has become PD again, and what else is there to say. Els gets good balls to hit because they won't pitch around him to get to PD then Gonzo ... that would be suicide.

    Pitchers have intentionally walked Gonzo with Youk up next, who would have thought that would ever happen? But the point is NOBODY walks Els to get to PD, and NOBODY walks PD to get to Gonzo. Els gets pitches to hit because of this.


    Els has played great, no doubt. If he does this again next year, I would say he has arrived. Bay had a great year here too. Els will always have skills, but to say he will be one of the best is a tough call at this point.

    A sober mind in a drunken den.

    Manny already was slugging at a high level on a 1994 Indians team that was no good. He was what transformed the Indians and brought in more talent to go around him. Kid, you are still slobbering about Tex coming to Red Sox. You are clueless. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Could Jacoby Ellsbury become the best player in the game within the next few years?

    David - It proves EVERYTHING.  Don't you see?  Let me help you:
    The dog is wagging his tail because the Arby's clock says it's time for room service meatballs.

    Am I the only one who truly understands Softy?
     

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