Could the problem simply be that..

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BTownExpress. Show BTownExpress's posts

    Could the problem simply be that..

    The Red sox acquire people who just want to get paid, instead of those who (really) want to play ball?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bregnier. Show bregnier's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    In Response to Could the problem simply be that..:
    [QUOTE]The Red sox acquire people who just want to get paid, instead of those who (really) want to play ball?
    Posted by BTownExpress[/QUOTE]

    I can't believe they would even consider letting Francone go.  Do you remember what managers were like before him?  We have all been talking about how strong the organization is and they play one bad month and want to break it up. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    Not buying it.  The problem is the pitching didn't hold up - period.  They started the season with a good rotation - Beckett, Lester, Buch, Lackey, and Dice-K. 

    Dice-K was lost for the season right out of the gate.  Losing his arm hurt, but would have cost them 5 games.  Wakefield went 8-7, no reason to think Dice-K would have won more than 13 games.

    Lackey never showed up.

    Buch's injury really hurt.  They were able to limp along right after he got hurt because the team was playing so well, but it finally caught up to him.  His injury was too much to overcome.

    Bedard was an OK pick up but he wasn't the #2/#3 starter that they needed.

    They start to struggle.  Guys are hurting.  Players with heart start to press instead of playing within themselves and overplay.

    Negativity starts to over take the team.

    There was a game pitched by Lackey that they should have won in mid September.  Lackey pitched 5.1 innings and gave up only 2 runs.  But they lost 5-4 when Bard gave up 3 runs in the 8th.

    I can see Lackey throwing a fit about the loss, and turning everyone negative.  There was a stretch where they lost in every conceivable fashion. 

    They'd get bad starting pitching.  Good starting pitching, but no run support.  Good starting pitching, good offense, but bad bull pen.

    There were plenty of opportunities to point fingers.

    When a team is playing badly, they either come together or fall apart.  They didn't come together.

    Can't blame Tito.  These guys are professionals and adults. 

    In 2004, they traded Nomar to turn the season around.  This year, they didn't have anyone they could trade.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    In Response to Re: Could the problem simply be that..:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Could the problem simply be that.. : I can't believe they would even consider letting Francone go.  Do you remember what managers were like before him?  We have all been talking about how strong the organization is and they play one bad month and want to break it up. 
    Posted by bregnier[/QUOTE]

    Do you remember what the teams looked like before Francona arrived? He inherited a championship team and underachieved as their manager. They should be considered a dynasty right now. Instead the were able to win the 2 World Series they appeared in. They have been a team that has been capable of getting to 3-4 more W S. The team was able to overcome his lack of managing abilities twice, when they should have been in 4 or 5 World Series. He has been responsible for costing them anywhere from 8 to 20 games in the standings during his 8 years here. He was not a good manager when he got here, he has not been a good manager while he's been here, and he will not be a good manager in the future. Good Riddance!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    He did not inherit a championship team.  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PetesCall. Show PetesCall's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    He DID inherit a Championship Team! Kool-Aid drinkers still exist!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALaGatorAL. Show ALaGatorAL's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    LOL... Yea he made them winners !! 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    In Response to Re: Could the problem simply be that..:
    [QUOTE]Not buying it.  The problem is the pitching didn't hold up - period.  They started the season with a good rotation - Beckett, Lester, Buch, Lackey, and Dice-K.  Dice-K was lost for the season right out of the gate.  Losing his arm hurt, but would have cost them 5 games.  Wakefield went 8-7, no reason to think Dice-K would have won more than 13 games. Lackey never showed up. Buch's injury really hurt.  They were able to limp along right after he got hurt because the team was playing so well, but it finally caught up to him.  His injury was too much to overcome. Bedard was an OK pick up but he wasn't the #2/#3 starter that they needed. They start to struggle.  Guys are hurting.  Players with heart start to press instead of playing within themselves and overplay. Negativity starts to over take the team. There was a game pitched by Lackey that they should have won in mid September.  Lackey pitched 5.1 innings and gave up only 2 runs.  But they lost 5-4 when Bard gave up 3 runs in the 8th. I can see Lackey throwing a fit about the loss, and turning everyone negative.  There was a stretch where they lost in every conceivable fashion.  They'd get bad starting pitching.  Good starting pitching, but no run support.  Good starting pitching, good offense, but bad bull pen. There were plenty of opportunities to point fingers. When a team is playing badly, they either come together or fall apart.  They didn't come together. Can't blame Tito.  These guys are professionals and adults.  In 2004, they traded Nomar to turn the season around.  This year, they didn't have anyone they could trade.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    Well said, DWL, well said!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattman1447. Show mattman1447's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    In Response to Could the problem simply be that..:
    [QUOTE]The Red sox acquire people who just want to get paid, instead of those who (really) want to play ball?
    Posted by BTownExpress[/QUOTE]

    That's kinda what I pointed out early on when they signed Crawford. Loved the AG pickup...absolutely hated the CC & Lackey signings. I also brought up the team chemistry would take a hit due to these signings.

    Whose job is it when evaluating players that the the team may end up signing at outrageous salaries?...FRONT OFFICE!

    Francona should by under any circumstances be responsible for what happened in Sept. Key injuries and way under producing free agents....on top of being a shrink to half of these guys and keeping all of New England satisfied while being abused by the fans and media all year long.

    The so called Red Sox Nation should just be very, very grateful if Francona decides to stay!

    Here's a newsflash for all you Red Sox Nationers out there: You can't expect to win it every freakin' year! Now you know what it means to be a real Sox fan...lots of hope, unreal expectations and total despair and disappointment when they finally find another way to lose it! And you come back again the next year and do it over.

    It's thanks to Tito that we finally...after a quadrillion years, have not one but two World Series Championships in his eight year reign...hopefully the FO manages to keep this gem of a human being and manager.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    Salaries  are so far out of kilter with real life...
    One has  to guess   that the average fan  is making   $60,000  k  give or take.. 

    a player making  15 million  is making $92592.59 per game..
    a player making  7.5 million  $46.296.30 PER GAME..

    Much of the team has paid it's Social Security with holding in the  first week of the season..

    We  expect them to care about the uniform, the city and the pride of playing for the Red Sox,   this team played for their paychecks.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    Here's a newsflash for all you Red Sox Nationers out there: You can't expect to win it every freakin' year!


    Yes we can and yes we should   ..
    We had one of the top  3   teams in baseball coming out of spring training.
    They played like the best team in baseball for  4 months.

    Our basic goal is to make the playoffs  in 2010  we won 90 and missed
    In 2011    we won  89 and missed again.

    The year befoore  2008,,   we were booted out of the playoffs  by the Rays..

    so we are not winning every freaking year...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beat-Boston. Show Beat-Boston's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    The greatest regular season collapse in sports history.

    You won the series from the NYY 12-6 but lost by 8 games in the standings.

    The Roid Sox played the Yankees like it was game 7 of the WS. After each of those series they had suffered a let down and would lose.

    As Jeter said, the season is long. You need to save yourself for the stretch run.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    Yes. By his actions Crawford is all about the money; he chased every last dollar he could get. Fine. Good for him (although I wonder if he now regrets not taking six years and playing in Anaheim).
    Starting pitching let them down; lack of clutch hitting let them down; manager let them down; bullpen let them down...c'mon...A Team does not implode in a vacuum, which is something that can never be predicted by Sabermetrics (which I beleive is valid by the way, better stats are better stats).
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattman1447. Show mattman1447's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    In Response to Re: Could the problem simply be that..:
    [QUOTE]Here's a newsflash for all you Red Sox Nationers out there: You can't expect to win it every freakin' year! Yes we can and yes we should   .. We had one of the top  3   teams in baseball coming out of spring training. They played like the best team in baseball for  4 months. Our basic goal is to make the playoffs  in 2010  we won 90 and missed In 2011    we won  89 and missed again. The year befoore  2008,,   we were booted out of the playoffs  by the Rays.. so we are not winning every freaking year...
    Posted by jackyldo[/QUOTE]

    You're being totally unrealistic if you think this team should win it every year...do everyone a favor and burn the pink hat and stop drinkin' the Kool-aid that you've been exposed to since 2007. What looks good on paper and what the reality is are two different things.


    Get over it...you can't and shouldn't expect to win it every year.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mannimota. Show mannimota's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    No, we know that they're not going to win each year, but this collapse was disgraceful.  They were capable of more than what they produced in September, despite the injuries and set backs.  All teams are afflicted with injuries.  This one did not respond well to them. . . .  Period.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BTownExpress. Show BTownExpress's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    Honestly, I haven't felt the Red Sox have spent their money well on "hard core" players since they resigned Trot Nixon.  It appears to me that they are constantly chasing the so-called "best available player" only to end up with a Lugo or Lackey..and after overspending bigtime!  It's like..here's your signing; now, you have a reason to come to the park..all without any real thought behind it.  This year we grabbed another CF for $142m.  The year before it was an $82m (or so) for a Lackey.  The money wasted on Lugo was another milestone..watching Tito try to get him in the lineup just because Theo overpaid.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattman1447. Show mattman1447's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    "No, we know that they're not going to win each year, but this collapse was disgraceful. They were capable of more than what they produced in September, despite the injuries and set backs. All teams are afflicted with injuries. This one did not respond well to them. . . . Period."
     
    You lose Dice-K for the year, Lackey, Lester, Beckett for a spell, Bucholtz for the 2nd half. Youk and J.D. Drew was hurt for the majority of the year, Crawford and Wheeler were half the players they was billed as (thanks TB), Jenks missed most of the season and if it wasn't for monster seasons by Ellsbury, Agon, Papi and Petey...this team wouldn't have even come close to making the playoffs.

    Oh...and putting up with hugh egos who think they know what's best for the team.. good Luck Tito! This Boston organization certainly doesn't deserve a class act like yourself. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    There are a lot of jerks on teh Sox roster - that has a lot to do with it.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    In Response to Re: Could the problem simply be that..:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Could the problem simply be that.. : Do you remember what the teams looked like before Francona arrived? He inherited a championship team and underachieved as their manager. They should be considered a dynasty right now. Instead the were able to win the 2 World Series they appeared in. They have been a team that has been capable of getting to 3-4 more W S. The team was able to overcome his lack of managing abilities twice, when they should have been in 4 or 5 World Series. He has been responsible for costing them anywhere from 8 to 20 games in the standings during his 8 years here. He was not a good manager when he got here, he has not been a good manager while he's been here, and he will not be a good manager in the future. Good Riddance!
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    Confusion has set in for poor Bosox1941, who finds himself with no one to complain about.

    He never had any real complaints to begin with, but I guess if you say them often enough, then people compalin about you.  Hey, close enough.

    I mean laughable statements like "He inherited a championship team and underachieved as their manager."

    Don't you technically have to win a title to be a "championship team"?  What with the root word being "champion" and all?

    Well - bye for now. Bosox1941.  We'll see you when they name the new manager, so you can immediately start complaining about him.  Given the nature of your complaints, I see no reason why you should have hold off until an actual game is played...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    In Response to Re: Could the problem simply be that..:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Could the problem simply be that.. : Do you remember what the teams looked like before Francona arrived? He inherited a championship team and underachieved as their manager. They should be considered a dynasty right now. Instead the were able to win the 2 World Series they appeared in. They have been a team that has been capable of getting to 3-4 more W S. The team was able to overcome his lack of managing abilities twice, when they should have been in 4 or 5 World Series. He has been responsible for costing them anywhere from 8 to 20 games in the standings during his 8 years here. He was not a good manager when he got here, he has not been a good manager while he's been here, and he will not be a good manager in the future. Good Riddance!
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]
    Yes, he was too intent of pleasing the players and keeping them happy.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    In Response to Re: Could the problem simply be that..:
    [QUOTE]He did not inherit a championship team.  
    Posted by chuchos[/QUOTE]
    oh contraire, yes he did...was said on the news tonight. He inherited the 2003 team..they won in 04 which was not really due to his managing. The real win for him was in 07 because he managed during that whole time.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jamminjim. Show jamminjim's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    Not buying it.  The problem is the pitching didn't hold up - period.  They started the season with a good rotation - Beckett, Lester, Buch, Lackey, and Dice-K. 

    Dice-K was lost for the season right out of the gate.  Losing his arm hurt, but would have cost them 5 games.  Wakefield went 8-7, no reason to think Dice-K would have won more than 13 games.

    Lackey never showed up.

    Buch's injury really hurt.  They were able to limp along right after he got hurt because the team was playing so well, but it finally caught up to him.  His injury was too much to overcome.

    Bedard was an OK pick up but he wasn't the #2/#3 starter that they needed.

    They start to struggle.  Guys are hurting.  Players with heart start to press instead of playing within themselves and overplay.

    Negativity starts to over take the team.

    There was a game pitched by Lackey that they should have won in mid September.  Lackey pitched 5.1 innings and gave up only 2 runs.  But they lost 5-4 when Bard gave up 3 runs in the 8th.

    I can see Lackey throwing a fit about the loss, and turning everyone negative.  There was a stretch where they lost in every conceivable fashion. 

    They'd get bad starting pitching.  Good starting pitching, but no run support.  Good starting pitching, good offense, but bad bull pen.

    There were plenty of opportunities to point fingers.

    When a team is playing badly, they either come together or fall apart.  They didn't come together.

    Can't blame Tito.  These guys are professionals and adults. 

    In 2004, they traded Nomar to turn the season around. sorry i copy and pasted this ,,this is what happened to the tee.Ok .Now you can`t say they had nothing to trade.Prospects,At every position. There is tradable peices.Sorry !!! My point is Theo is a wimp since the Nomar trade.The last 2 years they needed an inpact player with clubhouse quallities ! There were more than 2-3 dirt dogs to play the outfield from the N.L. that were available.And L.A. should have been a prime target of quality for prospects.Theo sucks at the dead line !!!!! Period!!!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RonSwanson. Show RonSwanson's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    There is no such thing as inheriting a "Championship team". Either you win, or you don't. Tito won. Twice. I appreciate everything he did for us, and wish him well in the future.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    In Response to Re: Could the problem simply be that..:
    [QUOTE]Not buying it.  The problem is the pitching didn't hold up - period.  They started the season with a good rotation - Beckett, Lester, Buch, Lackey, and Dice-K.  Dice-K was lost for the season right out of the gate.  Losing his arm hurt, but would have cost them 5 games.  Wakefield went 8-7, no reason to think Dice-K would have won more than 13 games. Lackey never showed up. Buch's injury really hurt.  They were able to limp along right after he got hurt because the team was playing so well, but it finally caught up to him.  His injury was too much to overcome. Bedard was an OK pick up but he wasn't the #2/#3 starter that they needed. They start to struggle.  Guys are hurting.  Players with heart start to press instead of playing within themselves and overplay. Negativity starts to over take the team. There was a game pitched by Lackey that they should have won in mid September.  Lackey pitched 5.1 innings and gave up only 2 runs.  But they lost 5-4 when Bard gave up 3 runs in the 8th. I can see Lackey throwing a fit about the loss, and turning everyone negative.  There was a stretch where they lost in every conceivable fashion.  They'd get bad starting pitching.  Good starting pitching, but no run support.  Good starting pitching, good offense, but bad bull pen. There were plenty of opportunities to point fingers. When a team is playing badly, they either come together or fall apart.  They didn't come together. Can't blame Tito.  These guys are professionals and adults.  In 2004, they traded Nomar to turn the season around.  This year, they didn't have anyone they could trade.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    In a whilwhind evening of non-sensical posts from me, it is refreshing to see someone gets it.  (Although I am pro-Lackey now.)

    Francona manages a baseball team.  He doesn't run a daycare. 

    Also, the dude who said something about why break it up after one bad month - maximum points awarded.

    The formula worked from 2004 through 2010 and most of 2011.  The reason they lost as very, very simple - bad starting pitching for one month.  Some attempts were made to get depth, but they didn't pan out.  Having Doubront out did not help, either.

    When Beckett, Lester and Buchholz (eventually) started throwing well and winning games, Lackey's disappearing act was easier to hide.  When they stopped winning (or got hurt) this team had no one to rely on as a pitcher.  Period.

    This wasn't about off-season conditioning or "poor ofensive plans."  It took alot for this perfect pitching storm to come together. 

    But it all did...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Could the problem simply be that..

    In Response to Re: Could the problem simply be that..:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Could the problem simply be that.. : oh contraire, yes he did...was said on the news tonight. He inherited the 2003 team..they won in 04 which was not really due to his managing. The real win for him was in 07 because he managed during that whole time.
    Posted by DirtDawgSox[/QUOTE]

    The only think missing from the 2003 championship team was the actual championship part.

    Francona did eventually get to manage Lowell and Beckett, but they were the only players to win a championship in 2003 that he ever managed.

    And Alex Gonzalez.  Twice.

    And Brad Penny.

    And Blaine Neal.

    Come to think of it, maybe Francona did manage a 2003 championship team...
     
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