could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    My daughter reports that openly gay athletes have been a non-issue at her underfunded, urban public high school on the West Coast (including two males who are now freshmen at Ivy League schools).

    Times have changed for the better since I graduated from high school 40 years ago.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    In response to mryazz's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    In response to ms_obstinate's comment:

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to ms_obstinate's comment:

     

    This is my liberal side coming out.... I don't care.  I don't get why this has to be a breaking story on all the news stations. 

     




    Maybe one day when equality for everyone has been reached things like this will not be an issue. That day has not yet arrived, so, unfortunately, it IS still an issue. Because of Collins there will be kids looking up thinking that the way they are is not so bad after all-if a professional basketball player can come out then that kid might think the door is open to him or her too.

     

     




    I get that it is an important story,  but breaking news?  It is a good sign that more and more people are seeing it as a non-issue.

     

     

     



    I agree to some extent.  I think it is a great sign that more and more people are seeing it as a non-issue.  And, perhaps ironically, Jason Collins being such a big issue will help make it more of a non-issue.  

     

    However, we have a long way to go before it is really a non-issue.

     



    It will take as long as it took for players of color to become a nonissue. A very long time. Some folks here say its not an issue for them; for gay people now as it was for people of color decades ago, its a BIG issue. Its so easy for white heterosexual males to dismiss this as a nonissue when it only tangentially affects them.

     

     



    let's be honest. it's only a big ISSUE for those of the christian right persuasion. but than again, so is EVOLUTION.

     



    Yazzer, while I agree with the general sentiment, I disagree that it is only a big issue for those of the 'christian right persuasion'.  It is a big issue for me, of the non-christian left persuasion.  People that I love most dearly are opporssed both in law and the real world.  For their own good and good of our society as a whole, I see it as a big issue.  One that must be addressed and fought for.  It is certainly being fought against.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from doofus54. Show doofus54's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    So...

    What happens if/when they find out that Collins just made this all up because his contract is expiring, he had little chance of hanging on, and this is a long shot attempt to extend his NBA career?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    However, we have a long way to go before it is really a non-issue

    How far do you have to go, specifically, before it is "really a non-issue"?

     



    Specifically: gay marriage legal, gay men and women able to live without fear of abuse, castigation, oppression.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    What if Billy Graham walked through Fenway doors, today, wearing a Red Sox jersey.

    And what if somone asked you to define "gay" and "coming out", in the context it's being used today. How would you define it.




    Billy's well into his 90s and can't cover as much ground at shortstop as he once did.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    I think it says much about our society that when Brittney Griner came out, nobody cared. When Jason Collins came out, there were strong opinions on both sides.

     

     

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    I think it says much about our society that when Brittney Griner came out, nobody cared. When Jason Collins came out, there were strong opinions on both sides.

     

     



    Haha.  Indeed.  Like, well of course female athletes are lesbians because of the butchness of being an athlete.  But, in no conceivable way could males be gay in the decidely unhomoerotic world of sweaty men in various states of undress and/or tight pants straining their muscles against one another.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Specifically: gay marriage legal, gay men and women able to live without fear of abuse, castigation, oppression.

    "Gay" is subjective, in the context you are using it in. It's not a physical idenity, it's a sexual proclviity and/or sexual behavior. For purposes of law, there is no way to legitimately comport with due process and use childish words like "gay" and "sexual orientation" to form another legal class of people. The artifice is superfical, outside the legal context, and not practically justiciable in the legal context.

    It's important to understand that "abuse, castigation and oppression" are words that can be used with many groups who are contemporarily culturally and/or politically unpopular. The issue of ethics and values always ends up with the tenets on morality and the basis for moral authority.

    Despite an intellectually bereft and childish social and politial and media narrative that characterzies this issue as a physical identity issue ("gay"), it is a factual issue of sexual proclivity and sexual behavior. And for those who believe that someone is "gay" as a physical identity, it begs the question on why this "identity" or "class" or "gourp" deserves any more social and legal importance than many other sexual behavior proclivities. And for relationship licensing from the body politic, why do same-sex couple relationships deserve any more legal importance than couples with common ancestry or group relationships?

     




    This is an interesting facet of this issue.  The legality of these two counter-arguments are based in different reasoning:  common ancestry was deemed a health issue.  Genetic flaws permeate inbred lines.  But, polygamy, I am not sure that polygamy should be illegal, assuming the willful entry into this state of union and guaranteed equal rights for all members of said union.  I cannot see a logical legal argument against it.

    As for this deliniation between physical identity and sexual proclivity/behavior, ok.  I have no problem separating these.  I ask you in turn, why is marriage based on the sexual proclivity/behavior of a man and a woman any more of a basis for legal marital union than that of a man/man or woman/woman?  Is it the Bible that tells you so?

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    In response to BostonProSportsLover's comment:

    In response to donrd4's comment:

     

    In response to BostonProSportsLover's comment:

     

    what if a papi came out and admitted he was living a lie and thats y he's getting divorced as he introduced us to his longtime male closet guy? what if it's pedy? do we change our tude to his dirt dawg grind it out style? its coming, only a matter of time before its a well-known ACTIVE guy.. yes, even in sacred Fenway! do we throw our narrow bibles at them or figure out how to adjust the bible to the situation as many have with race-mixing, interracial marriage, slavery, owning one's wife, on and on...?

     



    You are so right ! why do they make such a fuss about it ? The guys been in the league for 12 yrs and we are to believe that this was a something that his team or friends knew nothing about ? Here we go with the media hounds again. Nothing more then a average at best player coming out  and now he gets more page time then LaBron. If we could solve our world problems as fast as a ( coming out ) party, We would be a lot better off. Dam !! Let this gay stuff go !! Not a fuss just a fact.

     

     

    u clearly have not grasped this story. his own twin brotha and fellow NBA player was absolutely stunned. heard nothing , no rumors, no nothing, never suspected it. had a few women very well-served like mcdonalds over the years. if it were no big deal, would b no big deal.. like the black qb.. no biggie now for we went over the hump, ditto with NBA basketball coach or GM. in baseball, very big deal for there still none or very few. got it? u dont get the right to say no big deal, very liberal, no fuss when its clearly not thee reality for those out there who happen to b gay.


    explain why being gay is a big deal in any part of life.... You are what you are. But i guess if your of famous or sports figure being gay means a lot more the your average slob gay guy. I say SOOOOOOOOOO WHAT ! ...Can you grasp that.!!!  So who's going to be the frist gay in something else......again sooooooooooo WHAT !!!

     




     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    In response to mryazz's comment:

    but i do love his crackers.


    Especially the cinnamon ones.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    When Jason Collins came out, there were strong opinions on both sides.

    No, when Jason Collins publicly declared his current sexual behavioral proclivity, there was only strong opinions from the very side that aggrandized it.



    This is true.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    Times have changed for the better since I graduated from high school 40 years ago

    Since you have made a general comment, I disagree with your opinion. Overall, times have changed for the worse since I graduated from high school over 30 years ago.



    The comment, of course, was made in the context of this thread ...

    ... although 40 years ago the Vietnam War lingered on, Watergate was about to erode public confidence, presidential candidate George Wallace had been shot and seriously wounded, Israeli athletes had been slain at the Olympics and a Republican administration had recently imposed price controls while sending a table tennis team to open diplomatic relations with China.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    to think that there aren't already gay players is silly. how many thousands of men have played pro ball?  had to be at least 1, right?

    looking forward to the day where this isn't deserving of a thread.....

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tek-9. Show Tek-9's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    there have been gay Baseball, basketball, and football players before. Theres a good chance there have been gay Sox before. So id say obviously yes

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tek-9. Show Tek-9's posts

    Re: could we accept a Jason Collins walking thru those Fenway doors today with RED SOX on his jersey?

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    Libertarian/conservative.....who cares has no affect on my life...should not bother anyone...

    i just hope more take the initiative and get it all out in the open.



    Good to know theres another Libertarian here

     

     
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