Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

         Rangers 18, Sox 3...with the Sox' best pitcher going, and at home. 

         It's really a shame. Just five years ago, the Sox won their second world championship, and appeared to have a bright future. They had a plan. They had adopted the "money ball" philosophy, and were acquiring players at every position who had high on base percentages. They had also successfully rebuilt their minor league system...and were producing some good young players.     

         But then, for some reason, Red Sox GM Theo Epstein, changed course. His signing of Carl Crawford...a guy with a lousy career on base percentage, who didn't hit for power...to a 7 year, $142mil. dollar deal, set this team into it's current tailspin. 

         Crawford has great speed, and is, or was, an excellent defensive OF. But, because he doesn't draw walks and doesn't hit over .300, he hardly gets on base...where he can put his speed to use. Because he doesn't get on base, he's incapable of becoming a good one or two hole hitter. Because he hits left-handed, batting him second behind Jacoby Ellsbury and in front of Adrian Gonzalez makes the Red Sox line-up too lefty-top heavy, and prone to left-handed pitching. 

         Crawford is also incapable of batting 5th or 6th in the line-up, because he doesn't hit for power, and is not a good rbi man. Accordingly, he was set up to hit in the no-mans' land position of 7th. So...the Sox are paying this guy a long term, $20mil. per year deal, to bat 7th??? They're paying a guy $20mil. per season who doesn't hit for power, consistently drive in runs, and doesn't get on base? Compare and contrast this with their last $20mil. per year player (before Gonzalez), Manny Ramirez. 

         The signing of Carl Crawford has destroyed the teams' salary structure, and is unquestionably the worst contract in baseball. His bloated contract acts as a millstone around the neck of management, who are now hamstrung from bringing in what this team really needs...a righthanded power hitting OF and run producer, capable of batting cleanup. Such a hitter would anchor the current Sox' batting order. Without such a hitter, their order seems out of kilter.     

             
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    While I never liked the contract, your assessment if far, far too simple.  Far too simple.  As in "I got this off his baseball card" simple.  Did I mention I thought it was simple?

    The signing of Crawford, who was coming off a season where he could have easily been AL MVP (you neglected to mention that) was about taking a new direction.  Fans cry for a right-handed power hitter, but most of these fans have failed to notice that hitters fitting that profile are in high demand across all of MLB.  And those players are signing heavy deals long before free agency.  Think about the big extensions given to Longoria, Braun, J. Upton, Cabrera,  Tulowitzki, Andrew MccCutchen, Ryan Zimmerman.  All right-handed power hitters, all kept from free agency.  Nobody did that with Fielder.  (Pujols already had his 6 year $100mill deal with St. Louis.)

    (Yes, some lefty power hitters got massive pre-free agency extensions, too.  Ryan Howard, for example.)

    The Sox draft based on athleticism.  They typically draft "up the middle" players, as it is easier to move a SS to 3B than the other way around.  The upside is higher athleticism and more versatile and useful players  The downside is no slugging corner types.  So none available on market, an none coming up through the system?

    However, the philosophy at the top appeared to change.  Crawford was a step in athleticism, in redefining the team with more athletic and versatile players through not only the farm (which brought up these types in Pedroia and Ellsbury) but also through free agency.  With younger power hitters unavailable and older power hitters fading faster, possibly due to increased steroid testing, this was the new plan.   Do not underestimate the influence of steroid testing. Why sign a 33yo Jayson Werth or a 33yo Jason Bay if you fear they will not be productive, or their production will lead to severe suspensions?

    Also there were probably other factors, such as Ellsbury hiring Boras. We all would prefer Ellsbury over Crawford, but Jacoby's free agency became a done deal when he hired Boras.

    Fans don't like it because they think free agents are important and need to be productive.  Free agency is about filling gaps. Crawford takes a big chunk out of the payroll, but it is a chunk the team never should be spending in the first place, and if the team has to built the remainider of the roster with a mere $150mill, it really shouldn't be that hard.

    Oh, and Crawford did bat fifth in the World Series. Does that count for anything?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from drpjn. Show drpjn's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox


    Give Crawford the benefit of the doubt; let's see if he can turn it around when he returns.  Statistically, he's due.

    Otherwise, yeah, we been had.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]Give Crawford the benefit of the doubt; let's see if he can turn it around when he returns.  Statistically, he's due. Otherwise, yeah, we been had.
    Posted by drpjn[/QUOTE]
    Why?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    Yeah you took this one too far. Crawford signing wasn't great and as frustrated as I have been with this team of late they are hardly ruined. It's way too soon to say what the real problems are this year, for example, have the Sox put too much money/faith in Beck/Lester/Buch. If those three pitch well we will win a lot of games. If Aceves closes well then not reseigning Paps doesn't look so bad. In some ways Lackey looks like the worst contract but again he couldn't come back and pitch well. The Sox don't look ruined to me but they may be in for a long season.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from freediro. Show freediro's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    WHY?

    Because he had it practically all the way turned around last year, the avg. was coming up, signs of power surfaced, when he got on base he showed what his speed could do to pitchers. Then he got injured....yeah he may be fragile or whatever. But people are so fast to abandon certain signings and he honestly hasn't been given enough time to show what he can do. Unfortunately those injuries are also exacerbating the situation for some fans. But the Sox are not ruined. Lackey ruined the Sox more than anyone Theo signed, except for maybe Lugo.

    Say he comes back early May and from there on out stays healthy bats, conservative guesstimate - .295avg 12hr 70rbi 24sb - I honesty don't see why he couldn't produce this in the Sox line up. It's not much to ask especially since he will probably be batting leadoff until Ells is fully healed. We have him under contract and most teams won't just take it off our hands, so he will be here a while and my judgement is still out on him.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccfss. Show ccfss's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    In Response to Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]     Rangers 18, Sox 3...with the Sox' best pitcher going, and at home.       It's really a shame. Just five years ago, the Sox won their second world championship, and appeared to have a bright future. They had a plan. They had adopted the "money ball" philosophy, and were acquiring players at every position who had high on base percentages. They had also successfully rebuilt their minor league system...and were producing some good young players.           But then, for some reason, Red Sox GM Theo Epstein, changed course. His signing of Carl Crawford...a guy with a lousy career on base percentage, who didn't hit for power...to a 7 year, $142mil. dollar deal, set this team into it's current tailspin.       Crawford has great speed, and is, or was, an excellent defensive OF. But, because he doesn't draw walks and doesn't hit over .300, he hardly gets on base...where he can put his speed to use. Because he doesn't get on base, he's incapable of becoming a good one or two hole hitter. Because he hits left-handed, batting him second behind Jacoby Ellsbury and in front of Adrian Gonzalez makes the Red Sox line-up too lefty-top heavy, and prone to left-handed pitching.       Crawford is also incapable of batting 5th or 6th in the line-up, because he doesn't hit for power, and is not a good rbi man. Accordingly, he was set up to hit in the no-mans' land position of 7th. So...the Sox are paying this guy a long term, $20mil. per year deal, to bat 7th??? They're paying a guy $20mil. per season who doesn't hit for power, consistently drive in runs, and doesn't get on base? Compare and contrast this with their last $20mil. per year player (before Gonzalez), Manny Ramirez.       The signing of Carl Crawford has destroyed the teams' salary structure, and is unquestionably the worst contract in baseball. His bloated contract acts as a millstone around the neck of management, who are now hamstrung from bringing in what this team really needs...a righthanded power hitting OF and run producer, capable of batting cleanup. Such a hitter would anchor the current Sox' batting order. Without such a hitter, their order seems out of kilter.               
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]

    Keeping Youk over resigning Beltre (and moving Youk too early rather than too late) probably hurt more.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    Crawford would likely be back already if he hadn't been so willing to push it after the elbow surgery.  IMO, his wrist injury is due to trying to compensate for his not quite ready elbow.  A case of trying too hard too soon.  He badly wanted to be ready for opener and it set him back.  Looking for good production from Crawford once he gets back because I think he is determined to show he was worth the signing.  Just give the guy a chance once he is healed.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from WilcyMoore. Show WilcyMoore's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    Far too simplistic to isolate an expensive, long term and perhaps ill-advised so far signing and suggest unto itself that it has ruined a team.  The San Francisco Giants grossly overpaid an unproductive pitcher named Zito and yet were able to win a World Championship in spite of their misjudgement. 

    The formerly competitive sport of major league baseball has evolved over the past decade or thereabouts into a reality show with "luck" both good and bad as the primary driver of success between the lines.  Since 2001 improbable champions have emerged in October to claim the ultimate prize.  Franchises that had been on the outside looking in for years or in the case of expansion teams getting a handful of good players and having them perform well at the right time has been a recurring phenomena.  

    All of that being said, I thoroughly enjoy the roller coaster ride of a baseball season and watching teams evolve over time.  I accept what I cannot change and look forward to the ever changing script.  Today's goats can be tomorrow's heroes.  Such is the nature of the unpredictable sport.   
     
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    Crawford does not get the benefit of the doubt.

    THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON HIM.

    Null Hypothesis:  Crawford is a waste

    In order to disprove the hypothesis, Crawford must present a preponderance of evidence.  Until then, he's pure garbage.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    It's the pitching.....nothing of quality that is sustained. .....and it is the entire pitching staff...there is no FEAR of our pitching. You need that.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from phxvlsoxfan. Show phxvlsoxfan's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    Amazing!  So how was last night's loss 18-3 attributed to Crawford?  The culprits were principally named Lester, Youkilis and Melancon.  The first 2 were on the team pre-CC, and the 3rd was thought by many to be a great off-season addition.  I know people have the ability to ignore or twist logic, but linking last night to signing Crawford is nuts.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Koolga. Show Koolga's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    Iceman4, nailed it on the head.  Pitching, Pitching, Pitching....

    Ours will come around (I still don't like Thomas, and Melacon hasn't impressed either).

    We have been playing great teams.  Texas (who is a power house), if they don't have any injuries this year, may well be on the way to the W.S. 

    If we had even split the 4 games we've lost to them, we would be over .500

    Season is still very very early.  Anyone we get back is only going to help the team.

    Youk is a slow starter.  Lets see how things are in May, then decide.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    Ridiculous to blame Crawford's signing for "ruining" the Sox. Yes, last year was not a good one for him. He deserves the benefit of the doubt here. Let's see how he does when he returns from his injury. He may provide the offensive spark that we need.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    Crawford hurts, but he's hardly the reason the team is in the pickle they seem to be in.  Crawford costs them cash - period.

    The deal that hurt was the trade for Gonzo.  It cost them a ton of pitching prospects.  But even so, the only reason it hurts is because of the injuries to Dice-K and Lackey.  A healthy Dice K and Lackey and this team would have won the WS last year and been a favorite this year.

    Stop whining.  You get to watch 2 young starters blossom this year.  Not to mention the side show that is Bobby V.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    Face it signing Crawford went against all logical thinking.  He doesn't get on base.  All the Sox preach is OBP.  So why do u sign a guy that doesn't get on base and doesn't fit into your thinking?  I don't get.  Theo screwed this team up big time right before he left and Crawful was one of his biggest mistakes.  Now he is gone and we have to live with his leftover garbage.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhbosox. Show nhbosox's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    The Crawford signing is a bust but there are other problems that contribute also. Another year of good pitching shutting their bats down, Catching is a problem; Players like Jason V. can be hard to find but our starting catching needs a change, Sox pitching staff is not as good as the other top teams in the American league; Yankees, Detroit, Rangers are better and the Angels/Rays/Jays at the very least match the Sox. Putting Youk on third shortened his career he will do better to find a team he can play first for.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    Cash = Opportunity Cost; the price for not being able to spend that $ (Crawford) elsewhere - such as pitching........
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]While I never liked the contract, your assessment if far, far too simple.  Far too simple.  As in "I got this off his baseball card" simple.  Did I mention I thought it was simple? The signing of Crawford, who was coming off a season where he could have easily been AL MVP (you neglected to mention that) was about taking a new direction.  Fans cry for a right-handed power hitter, but most of these fans have failed to notice that hitters fitting that profile are in high demand across all of MLB.  And those players are signing heavy deals long before free agency.  Think about the big extensions given to Longoria, Braun, J. Upton, Cabrera,  Tulowitzki, Andrew MccCutchen, Ryan Zimmerman.  All right-handed power hitters, all kept from free agency.  Nobody did that with Fielder.  (Pujols already had his 6 year $100mill deal with St. Louis.) (Yes, some lefty power hitters got massive pre-free agency extensions, too.  Ryan Howard, for example.) The Sox draft based on athleticism.  They typically draft "up the middle" players, as it is easier to move a SS to 3B than the other way around.  The upside is higher athleticism and more versatile and useful players  The downside is no slugging corner types.  So none available on market, an none coming up through the system? However, the philosophy at the top appeared to change.  Crawford was a step in athleticism, in redefining the team with more athletic and versatile players through not only the farm (which brought up these types in Pedroia and Ellsbury) but also through free agency.  With younger power hitters unavailable and older power hitters fading faster, possibly due to increased steroid testing, this was the new plan.   Do not underestimate the influence of steroid testing. Why sign a 33yo Jayson Werth or a 33yo Jason Bay if you fear they will not be productive, or their production will lead to severe suspensions? Also there were probably other factors, such as Ellsbury hiring Boras. We all would prefer Ellsbury over Crawford, but Jacoby's free agency became a done deal when he hired Boras. Fans don't like it because they think free agents are important and need to be productive.  Free agency is about filling gaps. Crawford takes a big chunk out of the payroll, but it is a chunk the team never should be spending in the first place, and if the team has to built the remainider of the roster with a mere $150mill, it really shouldn't be that hard. Oh, and Crawford did bat fifth in the World Series. Does that count for anything?
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    You make some excellent points. However, in my opinion, the OP makes many good points. I think it might be an overstatement to say that Crawford has ruined the Red Sox, but Crawford is tremendously overpaid and never has been a good fit in the lineup.

    If he reverts to his Rays performances, he'll be helpful, but he never should have been signed. Even if the Sox didn't want to spend for Werth -- also overpaid -- I think they would have been better off finding a short-term LF until a better option was available.

    Just my opinion.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox:
    [QUOTE]Cash and opportunity cost? Just think of what Cashman could do with the ton of wasted $$$ with of all the FA busts of the last ten years?
    Posted by Calzone65[/QUOTE]

    well sure that's why The Ca$h-man is worse than Theo
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    First, I agree with the jist of the post. CC is and has been nothing more than a glorified platoon player. (He stinks vs most LHPs.) As I said the day after the signing, his contract will "cripple us for 7 years".

    That being said, CC will not hit like 2011 for 7 years. He is a good player (vs RHPs). He will help this team win.

    He hit 6th in the order last year (196 PAs) more than any other slot. (127 7th and 113 8th). If Youk continues to struggle, CC should bat 6th vs RHP or maybe even 2nd (moving Pedey to a power slot).
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Crawford Signing Has Ruined Red Sox

    LOL at the dude who said the AGON trade ruined this team.  We gave up 0 for AGON.  Casey Kelly had an ERA of 4 in AA (not AAA, but AA) last year with a terrible k/9 ratio. 

    Anthony Rizzo had a .141 batting average in 150 major league at-bats last year.

    Really, you regret parting w this trash for AGON?

    I hate comments like , "you cant trade pitching prospects".  Every pitching prospect is an individual.  What you should do with a prospect should be 100% baseed on the prospect himself and not governed by an over-simplistic gross generalization.

    The AGON trade was a robbery.  The prospects we gave up stunk.
     
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