Crawford = Vernon Wells??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fancy-shamanski. Show fancy-shamanski's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    If you think crawford is vernon wells then that shows what you know...  I think crawford is just fine so shows what i know...
    we'll see how this turns out at the end of the season
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells?? :      You can choose to stick your head in the sand if you wish. I view having a guy on the team making $20mil. per season for the next 7 years, whose not producing, as a major problem.      Let me ask you this...what would your attitude about Crawford be if he were playing this way...yet had been signed to a lucrative deal by the Yankees?
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    And you can choose to look for something to worry about.  There will always be some problem to dwell on no matter how well the Red Sox are performing. 

    And, you ask, what would be my attitude about Crawford if he were playing this way for the Yankees?  Well, I certainly wouldn't be rubbing it in if the Yankees were 2 games ahead in the standings.  There's a poster named Smiley who specializes in that sort of thing. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??:
    [QUOTE]If you think crawford is vernon wells then that shows what you know...  I think crawford is just fine so shows what i know... we'll see how this turns out at the end of the season
    Posted by fancy-shamanski[/QUOTE]

         I hope you know more than I know!!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??



    April

    4




    .155




    .204




    .227




    .431

     

    May

    4

    .304

    .328

    .482

    .810

     

    June

    4

    .278

    .298

    .463

    .761

     


    I think a pretty good recovery from a very bad start
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    "You can choose to stick your head in the sand if you wish. I view having a guy on the team making $20mil. per season for the next 7 years, whose not producing, as a major problem."


    That said, the Sox are in better shape overall right now than the Pats, and you seem to have no problem enjoying the football season without getting stressed out about someone's contract. 

    You've made three major mistakes: 

    - You're assuming that the Sox are a small market team and that baseball has a hard cap. Neither are true. Therefore, the Sox can afford to overpay sometimes. That's how baseball is. A bad signing can hamper a small market team for years. That's not a risk for the Sox. 

    - You're assuming that Crawford is going to be horrible based on a limited sample of his time here. He doesn't need to produce up to his money to be a good signing. He only has to get somewhere in the productive range. Essentially, you're passing judgement too early. You're gathering nuts for the winter in July. Enjoy some games. 

    - You're overdosing on stats with the OBP, not taking into account he had a rough start and has since perked up. I believe he won the AL player of the week a few years back - were you too caught up in the number crunching to notice? My eye test tells me he has been positively impacting some games. Here's one more: walk off hits matter. 

    The contract I am most worried about right now on the Sox, if you want to play that game, is Lackey. But again, he doesn't have to be brilliant, he just has to be a good solid 3 or 4 starter. If he can do that, no worries. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    TexasPat,

    All everyone is saying is CC started bad, heated up, got hurt. His numbers over the last 8 years says he will be fine.. Im sure we all agree hes overpaid, But thats FA for ya..Your always gonna overpay on the big names..and you can probably direct some of that anger Washingtons way too..They had a lot to do with what CC got by giving Werth 18mil per...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from scorieger. Show scorieger's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    It appears that you've proven yourself to judge CC's career on a two-and-a-half month period of time.  Sure, he's been pressing from time to time, but you have to give him way more time. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuchos. Show chuchos's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    If the Sox win the WS Crawford will have contributed greatly to it, and he will be wearing a ring.  Wells won't be.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxforlife22. Show soxforlife22's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    crawfords contract is very unlikely to be justified by his play over the next seven years. I think the front office knew this but also knew that there was not another player like him on the market. while his contract is not justified, the front office did what they could do to get the player that they thought was the best. They did not let money get in the way of improving the team in the best way possible.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??:
    [QUOTE]crawfords contract is very unlikely to be justified by his play over the next seven years. I think the front office knew this but also knew that there was not another player like him on the market. while his contract is not justified, the front office did what they could do to get the player that they thought was the best. They did not let money get in the way of improving the team in the best way possible.
    Posted by soxforlife22[/QUOTE]
    This is a reasonable assumption.
    The question is how close to justification will Crawford's play be.  
    No telling.  It's too soon to make a judgment, especially after his bad start. He's picked up a bit, but just as a small sample can put a player in the dumps fast, it can move him up fast.  So there is no indicator yet to go on.  Maybe there will be a fairly reliable one by the last third of the season, though even that cannot be etched in stone. He'll be around for a long time.
    Yup, as someone said, the Sox are a big market team and can afford to absorb mistakes. But that doesn't mean that money on mistakes could not have been better used. You still have to pay the man -- sometimes after he leaves town. I'm making a general point, not commenting specifically on Crawford. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    Please, guys, stop with this talk about how much Crawford makes.  You are no more predictors of the future than the doomsday guys.  And it reads like we don't support our players.

    Enjoy the season ...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    What I meant by "how close" above is an evaluation that the team itself makes. Fans may be able to say with reasonable certainty that a player is overpaid, since most are anyway. Or that a player has apparently not lived up on the field to the terms of his contract. But the organization keeps the books that count. OTOH, for anyone who thinks that an organization is honest publicly about its evaluation, I have here a cheap deed to a gold mine under the Rose Bowl. Right on the 50 yard line.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 26RINGSANDCOUTING. Show 26RINGSANDCOUTING's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    .275 OBP
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kebbe. Show kebbe's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

            soxmeister:Unfortunately,if this forum is a valid indicator,there are a number of folkks who don't support the players on the Red Sox,Patriots,Celtics and Bruins(read the forum today after a stunning Stanley Cup Championship you will find more than a few who are already bemoaning what will befall this team next season and criticizing,questioning and alluding that they know better than those who put it together).Some people simply aren't happy unless they are miserable and believe they should be positions of authority which they will never see.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??:
    [QUOTE]" You can choose to stick your head in the sand if you wish. I view having a guy on the team making $20mil. per season for the next 7 years, whose not producing, as a major problem." That said, the Sox are in better shape overall right now than the Pats, and you seem to have no problem enjoying the football season without getting stressed out about someone's contract.

    RESPONSE: I disagree. The Sox and Pats both appear to be solid, and are both championship contenders. 

         You really can't compare the two sports regarding contract issues. Football has a salary cap...baseball does not. Because of the cap, owners in football can't throw money around to build their teams. In baseball, you can. So, why is a non-producing $20mil. a year ballplayer so bad? Because the Sox are in direct competition with the Yankees. Crawford is not the only bad contract that the Sox have. Lackey hasn't produced as hoped, and Dice-K may be done. The Sox have gotten nothing out of Mike Cameron ($9mil. per year).  Bad deals add up...and the Sox must reload eveery season to keep up with the Yankees.  


    You've made three major mistakes:  - You're assuming that the Sox are a small market team and that baseball has a hard cap. Neither are true. Therefore, the Sox can afford to overpay sometimes. That's how baseball is. A bad signing can hamper a small market team for years. That's not a risk for the Sox.

    RESPONSE: I disagree. Several bad contracts can cripple even a good team. But, I do agree that the Sox and Yankees can afford a mistake or two. But look how the Sox butchered the SS position over the years. The decision to cut loose Cabrera in favor of a 4 year, $40mil. deal to Edgar "Iron Glove" Renteria really hurt. The Sox compounded that mistake with the Julio Lugo signing.  

    You're assuming that Crawford is going to be horrible based on a limited sample of his time here. He doesn't need to produce up to his money to be a good signing. He only has to get somewhere in the productive range. Essentially, you're passing judgement too early. You're gathering nuts for the winter in July. Enjoy some games.  - You're overdosing on stats with the OBP, not taking into account he had a rough start and has since perked up. I believe he won the AL player of the week a few years back - were you too caught up in the number crunching to notice? My eye test tells me he has been positively impacting some games. Here's one more: walk off hits matter.

    RESPONSE: I didn't like this signing ($20mil.  per year) from day one. Hopefully, you're right...and Crawford will start to pick things up. But, his OBP scares me. The guy needs to become more selective at the plate. Crawford is a tweener. His great speed is worthless if he can't get on base. He's not a power hitter.  So, if he can't get on base regularly, and can't hit for power, what good is he? This is why the Sox have struggled finding a regular hole for him to hit in the line-up. 

    The contract I am most worried about right now on the Sox, if you want to play that game, is Lackey.

    RESPONSE: True. Lackey reminds me of Mike Torrez in the late 70s.

    But again, he doesn't have to be brilliant, he just has to be a good solid 3 or 4 starter. If he can do that, no worries.

    RESPONSE:  Lackey was lousy last year, but still won 15 games. If he stays healthy, and, more importantly, gets his head on straight, he can be a decent 4th starter.
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from --The--Babe---. Show --The--Babe---'s posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??:
    [QUOTE]Just like my last post.  I proclaim this is nuts.  Wells has always been a bit injury prone and over weight.  He signed the big deal in Toronto because the Jays were trying to compete.  They signed a bigger guy to a huge deal at the time to continue the pounding on artificial turf.  The Sox are a couple of months in on a deal with a guy who is in much better shape than Wells would ever hope to me.  To already be talking about a contract that can't be moved in mid-June of year one is silly.  The Sox did their due diligence and wanted the player.  Because you think it was a mistake and think one slump validates your position doesn't make it so.  The Sox have all their ducks in a row...flexibility at the major league level, rebuilding the minor league system from the AGon deal and in first place.  What is there to complain about?

    Posted by jimdavis[/QUOTE]

    And because you don't think it was a mistake and think that this is a "slump" and not the way crawful will play from here on out doesn't make it so either.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeNagy. Show MikeNagy's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells?? : And because you don't think it was a mistake and think that this is a "slump" and not the way crawful will play from here on out doesn't make it so either.
    Posted by --The--Babe---[/QUOTE]

    Do you honestly think Crawford's not a lot better hitter than his numbers show so far? He's no superstar granted, but I don't believe the sox are getting seven years of this, and don't think you do either.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bingobilly. Show bingobilly's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??


    Would you not agree that baseball salaries are relative in terms of today's money.  Really now...is anybody worth millions of dollars to play baseball.  No, of course not.  It all comes down to business and the resulting potential profit.

    I live about 100 miles south of Tampa and have watched Crawford play for a couple of years while with the Rays.  In my humble opinion he is a slightly above average ball player.  He gets the "above" category because of his speed. 

    I also believe he misses the life he had here in Florida and the easy come, easy go life style of the Rays organization.  What to do?  Cut him a break, he's a great guy and will come around at some point.  In my opinion, what might speed the process up is if he was batted second in the line-up and maybe sit him down against certain lefties on occasion.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from --The--Babe---. Show --The--Babe---'s posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells?? : Do you honestly think Crawford's not a lot better hitter than his numbers show so far? He's no superstar granted, but I don't believe the sox are getting seven years of this, and don't think you do either.

    Posted by MikeNagy[/QUOTE]

    No, but I didn't think the Yanks were getting a .250 hitter when they signed Tex either. My point was that jim's opinion is no more valid than any one else's.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    I wonder if getting Rentaria made Giant fans want to vomit.    Forget the money, Crawford is a great player.  Some of you guys write off defense and speed like it is worhtless.

    Then lets get rid of Iglesias while we can, he is worth nothing, right?    He is only a defensive guy, basically not worth even looking at by the logic shown here. 

    Crawford was an All Star ... he is not an average player.   He already been player of the week, and won several games for us ... more than you can say for many other great players in the MLB.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    His defense here has been shaky. His speed is minimized by the low OBP.
    His career OBP is not great. He has always stunk vs LHPs. He could (should) be MLB's first $20M platoon player.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells?? : And because you don't think it was a mistake and think that this is a "slump" and not the way crawful will play from here on out doesn't make it so either.
    Posted by --The--Babe---[/QUOTE]

    Right but the difference is that the player has a long track record of performing.  That makes the odds better that April was a slump rather than a trend.  All you have is hope that it was the opposite.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells?? : No, but I didn't think the Yanks were getting a .250 hitter when they signed Tex either. My point was that jim's opinion is no more valid than any one else's.
    Posted by --The--Babe---[/QUOTE]

    Opinion based on tangible numbers is more valid than an opinion based on hope.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from --The--Babe---. Show --The--Babe---'s posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells?? : Opinion based on tangible numbers is more valid than an opinion based on hope.

    Posted by jimdavis[/QUOTE]

    But again still an opinion. Tex is the perfect example. The "tangible numbers" before he signed with the Yanks suggested a player that would hit around .290, but yet he's a .250 hitter now. So your "tangible numbers" opinion is no more valid than anyone else's opinion.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Crawford = Vernon Wells??

    Ah but the difference is that I expect him to get the average up to .290.  Just like I expect Crawford to continue to climb.  Based on your arguement, everything is an opinion until November.  If Tex hits .250 for the year, that would make me happy but I don't expect it.
     
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