Crawford will never be worth the money

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    In Response to Re: Crawford will never be worth the money:
    [QUOTE]I don't think I"m throwing Youks under a bus by saying he's the best trade bait the team has...it's a complement for cryin out loud. I said he was one of the best defensive 1b in the game, but he lost his position, and now he's virtually out of position at 3b. He's not that good defensively there, and like Alibi listed, Youks has been slumping due probably to injuries. It's not out of the realm to question the Greek God. Every player on this team gets criticism except for 2 guys--Pedroia (who answered his early critics) and Youkilis. They are dirt dogs, they are untouchables. I just think Youks has been never criticized by anyone no matter what. I don't think that's fair if he's not producing at a level we are expecting. It's your opinion that the Sox were "right about Derek Lowe"...I don't think so, and I think he could have solved a lot of problems that have existed the last few years...A durable starter who can eat innings and not get hurt.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    What baloney.  For starters, Youk does get criticized, usually for his temper.  More importantly, he is still exceptional value at 3B.  And you want to trade him--for what?  With Youk gone, who plays 3B and produces the way he does?  Answer--almost no one.  Plus his salary vastly undervalues his worth to the team. 

    You do have one point however.  It's really stupid for Sox fans to root for a player who hustles on every single play. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    In Response to Re: Crawford will never be worth the money:
    [QUOTE]                         All past season sins will be forgiven if he shows up in Prime Time which begins in October and ends in November, ......assuming we get there.
    Posted by eggplants[/QUOTE]

    So true.  JD Drew made a Red Sox career out of one HR and pretty good defense.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    Manny was great "trade bait" in getting Jason Bay. Getting rid of a despicable non-team player who feigned injury and acted like a spoiled kid and dishonored his contract was a no-brainer in getting someone with a good attitude like Jason Bay. Hats off to Theo on that trade. Cater thought that Manny was an untouchable but many others didn't. Sometimes loyalty can be blinding.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    I think it's a little premature to say he will NEVER be worth the money - unless you believe that he never could have been regardless of his performance, and there's something to be said for that argument.  The mitigating factor for his pay is the ridiculous amount the Nats forked over for Werth that set the bar for OF's salaries. 

    This guy has skills, he proved that in TB.  Now what he needs to do is use those skills in Fenway.  Personally I think he's finding playing in Boston to be a bit overwhelming for him.  I just don't think he knew what he was getting into here.
    He has the skills to be what he's getting paid to be.  He now needs to get his head on straight and know that things are different in Boston than they were in TB.  I'm hoping that happens SOON.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    In Response to Re: Crawford will never be worth the money:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Crawford will never be worth the money : What baloney.  For starters, Youk does get criticized, usually for his temper.  More importantly, he is still exceptional value at 3B.  And you want to trade him--for what?  With Youk gone, who plays 3B and produces the way he does?  Answer--almost no one.  Plus his salary vastly undervalues his worth to the team.  You do have one point however.  It's really stupid for Sox fans to root for a player who hustles on every single play. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    As I said, I expect Youks fans to be defending him to no end. The point that I was making was that instead of Carl Crawford in LF, the team could have had Beltre, AGON, and a quality LF (a right-handed hitter) in a trade for Youks. I think that would have bolstered the lineup, improved the 3b defense, but it would have been at the expense of a fan favorite in Youks
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    Think about it...142 million spent on Crawford, think about what other needs the team had at that time. They could have thought outside the box, instead there was going to be no way they were going to not move Youks to 3b the moment AGON was acquired. They made it clear they did not want Beltre back, but he proved that he was a valuable commodity in a Sox jersey. That's what I look for in a Red Sox, and he provided that. So does Youks, but he lost his position in the AGON move. This conversation never takes place if Youks is at 1b.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    I thought that you decided to trade Youk after his .218 April, May. Now you are saying that you wanted to trade him last fall. If they couldn't afford to keep VMart , why do you think that they could have afforded Beltre and how do you know that Beltre wouldn't return to what he did before his super year in Boston. You seem to want a payroll larger than the EE. I thought that you were a Red Sox fan.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    I can see a lot better way to spend 142 million. If it was going to be spent on a Flavor of the Month instead of going out and getting a right-handed hitting OF. You know to fill the need. Or trading a quality starter without his best position--Youkilis--and get back a SP or a top OF. If Beltre wasn't to be resigned, then trade Youks for a natural third baseman. Lots of ways to fill the needs of the team. CC was not a need, he was a want. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    Cater is right.  Crawford was like the tulips  craze in the 1600's people bought them as if they had real value like currency and ended up with well- a useless commodity.  Carl at thirty for 142 million is a bunch of wilting tulips.  I feel a sense of dread concerning Crawford as six more years of this guy with his eroding skills is going to make Drew look like a great deal.

    If the Sox falter this deal becomes so stinky that when resigning Ellsbury it may even poison what will be a must signing.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    In Response to Re: Crawford will never be worth the money:
    [QUOTE]Cater is right.  Crawford was like the tulips  craze in the 1600's people bought them as if they had real value like currency and ended up with well- a useless commodity.  Carl at thirty for 142 million is a bunch of wilting tulips.  I feel a sense of dread concerning Crawford as six more years of this guy with his eroding skills is going to make Drew look like a great deal. If the Sox falter this deal becomes so stinky that when resigning Ellsbury it may even poison what will be a must signing.  
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    Evaluating the future performance of baseball players is a very inexact science.  When the dollars get this high it becomes a ridiculously risky venture.  If Ellsbury performs at this level for another two years it's possible he'll command the same type of deal as Crawford.  It's also very possible that his performance will erode after he cashes in and there will be one more free agent bust. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    anything is possible, but a lot of fans on this board, including myself, were not in favor of CC well before he became a Sox player. He didn't seem to be a good fit based on some of his performances at Fenway as a Ray, especially on defense at the Monster. He was a butcher out there, and it was laughable sometimes to see him look lost AS A RAY. This is well before the 142 mil investment for a guy who they already had in essence in Ellsbury, lefty hitter, OF, steals bases, good range....No need to duplicate that when it made more sense to go after a RH hitting OF after they got AGON.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    142 million dollar rib insurance was harness's line...I guess that is one way to look at it.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    Whatever the future does in making the performance of Crawford hard to predict, you can be sure that going into the signing everything about Crawford seemed like a very unneeded and poor fit for the red sox.  It never made any sense yet they did it,  and paid a grossly excessive price.


    I bring up Ellsbury because he is better for the Red Sox and now cannot be signed for his good season or next year's because of the Crawford signing numbers. To make it even worse it may be what sends him elsewhere.  So you have a incredibly bad deal for a Crawford setting up the loss of a now better player you had in your system.  This is very bad player management  even to a third grader.   And the odds of it playing out this way are way too likely.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    In Response to Re: Crawford will never be worth the money:
    [QUOTE]Whatever the future does in making the performance of Crawford hard to predict, you can be sure that going into the signing everything about Crawford seemed like a very unneeded and poor fit for the red sox.  It never made any sense yet they did it,  and paid a grossly excessive price. I bring up Ellsbury because he is better for the Red Sox and now cannot be signed for his good season or next year's because of the Crawford signing numbers. To make it even worse it may be what sends him elsewhere.  So you have a incredibly bad deal for a Crawford setting up the loss of a now better player you had in your system.  This is very bad player management  even to a third grader.   And the odds of it playing out this way are way too likely.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    I can certainly see that side of it.  I don't think they expected Ellsbury to do what he's doing this year. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    As I said from day one (and even before we signed him), even if Crawford repeats his career average season for 7 years, he still wouldn't be worth $142M.

    I also said that Theo overpaid for him by about $50M.

    I also said he had serious issues vs LHPs and was really just a "glorified platoon player".

    That being said, it is still early.
     
    I hope I get proven wrong.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    In Response to Re: Crawford will never be worth the money:
    [QUOTE]As I said from day one (and even before we signed him), even if Crawford repeats his career average season for 7 years, he still wouldn't be worth $142M. I also said that Theo overpaid for him by about $50M. I also said he had serious issues vs LHPs and was really just a "glorified platoon player". That being said, it is still early.   I hope I get proven wrong.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I just don't see why you keep saying 'Theo overpaid by 50 million'.  It makes it sound like he could have signed him for 90 million.  That was impossible, especially after Werth signed for 126 million.  The reports about what the Angels offered are a little murky.  But they went out and traded for Wells and are paying him 20 million a year for 4 years.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    No one is worth the money.  He has struggled but he will be fine.  I know its fun to pile on bu the Sox are in first place.  If someone else struggles next season, Crawford might pick him up.  Relax and enjoy a super season.  The Sox would have nothing wrapped up.  They find a way to win and are on pace to win 98 games...right where Vegas projected.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    Question: How come when the FO overpays for a high profile FA many blame the market ("the Werth contract made me do it"). But when the FO let's one of its own walk (Johny Damon let's say), it's becaue of a keen assessment of "value" that they absolutely will not go above. Seems that for their own players, value is absolute while for non Red Sox free agents value is relative (to the market).
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyinthebronx. Show mikeyinthebronx's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    The Crawford signing is better than Carl Pavano....CC is and will be the gift that keeps on giving.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    I hope Crawford proves to be a great deal.  The evidence so far says otherwise.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    Pavano was also worse than Lackey but we will have to see by how much.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from marstan. Show marstan's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    GUYS AND GALS...WHY DON'T YOU JUST ADMIT IT. THIS TEAM
    IS BECOMING UNWATCHABLE. THINK ABOUT IT. IN TODAY'S
    DOUBLE BILL AGAINST THE RAYS. WE GOT ABOUT 6 OR 7 HITS.
    THAT'S TWO GAMES....TWO GAMES !!! SIX HITS. THIS IS
    "ALLEGEDLY" ONE OF THE BEST HITTING TEAMS IN THE
    LEAGUE....SLATED FOR THE WS. WHO'S KIDDING WHO. WE
    WILL BE LUCKY TO SLIDE INTO THE WILD CARD, ABOUT
    8-10 GAMES BEHIND THE DIVISION LEADING YANKEES, WHOSE
    FANS WILL LAUGH UP THEIR SLEEVES AT US. THEY "STOLE
    ' GRANDERSON FROM THE STUPID TIGERS, AND ARE A HITTING
    MACHINE. IN THE LAST TWO GAMES THEY WILL HAVE SCORED
    15+ RUNS. COMPARE THAT TO WHAT WE HAVE DONE.
    THE SOX POWER FAILURE WILL CONTINUE. YOUK IS FADING;
    ORTIZ HAS A BAD FOOT AND CAN'T RUN; AGON HITS JUST
    FOR HIS OWN AVERAGE; REDDICK IS REVERTING TO FORM,
    SLOWLY BUT SURELY; SCUTARO IS A NO SHOW. LOWRIE
    CAN'T HIT A LICK. SALTY STRIKES OUT TOO MUCH. SO...
    TELL ME...ARE WE GOING TO WIN BEHIND PEDEY AND JACOBY.
    GIMME A BREAK. PLEASE.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    I just don't see why you keep saying 'Theo overpaid by 50 million'.  It makes it sound like he could have signed him for 90 million.  That was impossible, especially after Werth signed for 126 million.  The reports about what the Angels offered are a little murky.  But they went out and traded for Wells and are paying him 20 million a year for 4 years.

    With all due respect, I never said he could have signed him for $90M. I said he overpaid by $50M. I'd rather have had the $142M to spend elsewhere and gone with DMac/Reddick/Kalish in LF to start the season. (Or maybe Berkman.)

    It has nothing to do with CC's poor start. I said it before the season began: even if CC was having a career average year, I do not think he is worth more than $92M/7.

    I had hoped we'd have signed Holliday back when, but he'd have been overpaid as well.... just not as much as CC.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mikeyinthebronx. Show mikeyinthebronx's posts

    Re: Crawford will never be worth the money

    In Response to Re: Crawford will never be worth the money:
    [QUOTE]Pavano was also worse than Lackey but we will have to see by how much.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    He was worse than Lackey performance wise but he made far less $$ and for less time than both Crawford and Lackey.
     
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