CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to soups' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seriously, those number rankings are useless at the MLB level.  Useless.  

    This league is riddled with pitchers who lit it up at a AAA level and failed in the bigs, as well as vice versa.  Webster has just had two completely opposite starts. 

    Sox need a lot to compete next year, and it starts with an honest appraisal of their pitching.  They now need starters and middle relievers.  Webster is going to be in AAA for at least one more season.  Don't care who it is, or what team they're on, a pitcher cannot walk 5 batters in an inning.  Done and done. 

    They moved Salty in part because he threw two balls into the outfield last playoffs; what is to be done with their alleged "quality" pitchers?  

    Who is evaluating their pitching?

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes they do need to evaluate the young pitchers who may be a part of 2015.  That means now.  It's likely going to take more than a couple starts to do that for RDLR, Workman, Webster and maybe Ranaudo. Include Kelly too. The road is going to be bumpy, but it will tend to sort them out. 

    The decision of Salty was made well before the WS.  

    Management and staff will obviously be evaluating them, not fans - although Hugh is probably better than most.  The point on Lester was spot-on (Glavine, Randy Johnson, Koufax and Smoltz too...etc)  early in his career many doubted he'd develop enough control.  A lot of baseball people even doubted he'd be much more than a #3 or #4 starter. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    The people who put together these prospect rankings are 100% aware that they don't have a crystal ball and that players don't always pan out.

    however.....professional organizations are also smart enough to understand that players take time to develop, development is not linear, and often adversity and struggle is part of learning.

    Webster didn't get to the majors leagues by walking 45/9 IP, obviously he had something mental going on. 

    Of course Webster might never amount to anything, put it all together, or fall somewhere in between.......but starting a thread about him based on a start or two is just dumb and shows how completely clueless ADG is.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    Seriously, those number rankings are useless at the MLB level. Useless.

    This league is riddled with pitchers who lit it up at a AAA level and failed in the bigs, as well as vice versa. Webster has just had two completely opposite starts.

    Of course rankings are not 100% accurate, and nobody here is denying that, however, my guess is the people who do these ranking know a heck of a lot more about prospects than we do, and Webster has been a top 100 prospect for 3 straight years by both Baseball America and MLB.com.

    Sox4ever

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seriously, those number rankings are useless at the MLB level. Useless.

    This league is riddled with pitchers who lit it up at a AAA level and failed in the bigs, as well as vice versa. Webster has just had two completely opposite starts.

    Of course rankings are not 100% accurate, and nobody here is denying that, however, my guess is the people who do these ranking know a heck of a lot more about prospects than we do, and Webster has been a top 100 prospect for 3 straight years by both Baseball America and MLB.com.

    Sox4ever

    [/QUOTE]

    Nobody is questioning Webster being a good pitcher as long as he stays in the minors; right now he's missing a mental toughness to compete in the big show. Maybe he'll find it, maybe he never will.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seriously, those number rankings are useless at the MLB level. Useless.

    This league is riddled with pitchers who lit it up at a AAA level and failed in the bigs, as well as vice versa. Webster has just had two completely opposite starts.

    Of course rankings are not 100% accurate, and nobody here is denying that, however, my guess is the people who do these ranking know a heck of a lot more about prospects than we do, and Webster has been a top 100 prospect for 3 straight years by both Baseball America and MLB.com.

    Sox4ever

    [/QUOTE]

    Nobody is questioning Webster being a good pitcher as long as he stays in the minors; right now he's missing a mental toughness to compete in the big show. Maybe he'll find it, maybe he never will.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly, there is a VERY long list of players who come up in their first seasons and struggle mightily with their control, some see results and a turn around sooner than others, and some never make it. 

    The reality is on a team like Boston where expectations are high a kid is given less of a chance to prove himself.  Sometimes that just leads the Sox to cutting a guy sooner who will inevitably never amount to anything, but sometimes it leads us to letting guys go who end up being great.

    I feel like this season gives us the luxury to take advantage of a ****y situation and throw some of these guys out there, give them a long look and see how they progress.

    But anyone who thinks someone isn't a "good prospect" based on their ERA and BB/9 in their first 40 innings has not been paying attention to the sport of baseball over the last couple of decades.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seriously, those number rankings are useless at the MLB level. Useless.

    This league is riddled with pitchers who lit it up at a AAA level and failed in the bigs, as well as vice versa. Webster has just had two completely opposite starts.

    Of course rankings are not 100% accurate, and nobody here is denying that, however, my guess is the people who do these ranking know a heck of a lot more about prospects than we do, and Webster has been a top 100 prospect for 3 straight years by both Baseball America and MLB.com.

    Sox4ever

    [/QUOTE]

    Nobody is questioning Webster being a good pitcher as long as he stays in the minors; right now he's missing a mental toughness to compete in the big show. Maybe he'll find it, maybe he never will.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly, there is a VERY long list of players who come up in their first seasons and struggle mightily with their control, some see results and a turn around sooner than others, and some never make it. 

    The reality is on a team like Boston where expectations are high a kid is given less of a chance to prove himself.  Sometimes that just leads the Sox to cutting a guy sooner who will inevitably never amount to anything, but sometimes it leads us to letting guys go who end up being great.

    I feel like this season gives us the luxury to take advantage of a ****y situation and throw some of these guys out there, give them a long look and see how they progress.

    But anyone who thinks someone isn't a "good prospect" based on their ERA and BB/9 in their first 40 innings has not been paying attention to the sport of baseball over the last couple of decades.

    [/QUOTE]


    Well said, and getting long looks at 3-4 young starters over the next month will be interesting, but I'm sure sometimes painful.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BogieAt12oclock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seriously, those number rankings are useless at the MLB level. Useless.

    This league is riddled with pitchers who lit it up at a AAA level and failed in the bigs, as well as vice versa. Webster has just had two completely opposite starts.

    Of course rankings are not 100% accurate, and nobody here is denying that, however, my guess is the people who do these ranking know a heck of a lot more about prospects than we do, and Webster has been a top 100 prospect for 3 straight years by both Baseball America and MLB.com.

    Sox4ever

    [/QUOTE]

    Nobody is questioning Webster being a good pitcher as long as he stays in the minors; right now he's missing a mental toughness to compete in the big show. Maybe he'll find it, maybe he never will.

    [/QUOTE]


    Exactly, there is a VERY long list of players who come up in their first seasons and struggle mightily with their control, some see results and a turn around sooner than others, and some never make it. 

    The reality is on a team like Boston where expectations are high a kid is given less of a chance to prove himself.  Sometimes that just leads the Sox to cutting a guy sooner who will inevitably never amount to anything, but sometimes it leads us to letting guys go who end up being great.

    I feel like this season gives us the luxury to take advantage of a ****y situation and throw some of these guys out there, give them a long look and see how they progress.

    But anyone who thinks someone isn't a "good prospect" based on their ERA and BB/9 in their first 40 innings has not been paying attention to the sport of baseball over the last couple of decades.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree this is the perfect season to do auditions; the problem is the SOX have the wrong manager to do it correctly. So it will probably end up a wasted opportunity.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    He will get one more start and if he bombs, he will be sent back down.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why would anyone pass judgment on him today.... he has all of August and into September to show what he can do.... there is zero reason to start pounding on our newer pitchers... most of them will likely take more beatings at the hand of MLB hitters for the next two months.... as they learn and garner.

    [/QUOTE]


    its Ok to say he stinks because he did ...however he will have the rest of the season to prove his stuff but I think in 2015 he and Middlebrooks wont be around

    [/QUOTE]

    If he doesn't pitch well in his next start, it was implied that they'll try someone else. You can't have 15 starting "prospects" and keep them all around.

     

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    The stage may be his downfall. If he has pitched well at AA and AAA. If it's Boston, which it may be, then perhaps performing in Houston or Miami might be more appropriate until he gets it together. He just has the look of someone without the needed confidence to complete the task. I wish him well it's a difficult dilema.

    Buch on the other hand is a mess---I honestly don't think it's the crowd or the venue--it may be the Bard Syndrome. Perhaps take him out of the rotation slip  Stephen Wright into his slot  and get Buch into the pen and work one inning stints and an occasional long relief. At this point you have a lot more money invested in Buch than you have in Breslow who seems to be in the groove of giving up a run every outing.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BogieAt12oclock. Show BogieAt12oclock's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to RigatoniT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why would anyone pass judgment on him today.... he has all of August and into September to show what he can do.... there is zero reason to start pounding on our newer pitchers... most of them will likely take more beatings at the hand of MLB hitters for the next two months.... as they learn and garner.

    [/QUOTE]


    its Ok to say he stinks because he did ...however he will have the rest of the season to prove his stuff but I think in 2015 he and Middlebrooks wont be around

    [/QUOTE]

    If he doesn't pitch well in his next start, it was implied that they'll try someone else. You can't have 15 starting "prospects" and keep them all around.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree. Best to trade some of them before the other teams realize how bad they are.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FantaSox. Show FantaSox's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The people who put together these prospect rankings are 100% aware that they don't have a crystal ball and that players don't always pan out.

    however.....professional organizations are also smart enough to understand that players take time to develop, development is not linear, and often adversity and struggle is part of learning.

    Webster didn't get to the majors leagues by walking 45/9 IP, obviously he had something mental going on. 

    Of course Webster might never amount to anything, put it all together, or fall somewhere in between.......but starting a thread about him based on a start or two is just dumb and shows how completely clueless ADG is.

    [/QUOTE]


    It is very refreshing to read good posts like this one. I believe also that Webster will figure it out  and when he does he will be very consistent. He needs people around him to be patient and trust him. He certainly has the ability.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from NLU75. Show NLU75's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I know you believe Webster is their #2 pitching prospect, but he's not. Have you not seen enough of him last year and this year to see that?

    [/QUOTE]


    Allen Webster has all of 38 IP for his career.  Is that really a sample size that convinves you?

     

    Lester had a stretch of 36IP in his rookie year where he had an ERA of 7.75 and the league had an OPSA of .971.   I guess you called him an AAAA pitcher then, too..

    [/QUOTE]


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from chetgnat. Show chetgnat's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    reminds me of Johnny "Way Back".

    or as i called him, Johnny "whiplash". 

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NLU75. Show NLU75's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to notin's comment: Notin 6 innings thats what Renaldo pitched & he showed he belongs in Boston before  Webster
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I know you believe Webster is their #2 pitching prospect, but he's not. Have you not seen enough of him last year and this year to see that?

    [/QUOTE]


    Allen Webster has all of 38 IP for his career.  Is that really a sample size that convinves you?

     

    Lester had a stretch of 36IP in his rookie year where he had an ERA of 7.75 and the league had an OPSA of .971.   I guess you called him an AAAA pitcher then, too..

    [/QUOTE]


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    You can't have 15 starting "prospects" and keep them all around.

    I get your point, and I think it dovetails into my outlook that we have too much quantity (mediocrity) and too little quality (front line players).

    However, we do not have 15 starting prospects that are MLB ready right now.

    Besides Buch (29) and Kelly (26), here is the list of pitching prospects ready for a shot at MLB or already being given s hot as we speak:

    I count 6 fighting for 3 slots (assuming Buch and Kelly keep theirs).

    de la Rosa 25

    Webster 24

    Workman 25

    Ranaudo 24

    Wright 29

    Owens 22

     

    Close but not ready yet:

    Barnes 24

    Johnson 23

    L Diaz 22

    E Escobar 22

    E Rodriguez 21

    Couch 24

    Haley 23

     

    Far away:

    Kopech, T Ball, Mercedes, Stankiewicz, Callahan, Cosart, Gunkel

     

    Sox4ever

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

      Very solid start by Webster tonight.  Either that or the Angels are a 4A team.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    Webster looked very good last night against a good team on the road, I hope he keeps it going.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The people who put together these prospect rankings are 100% aware that they don't have a crystal ball and that players don't always pan out.

    however.....professional organizations are also smart enough to understand that players take time to develop, development is not linear, and often adversity and struggle is part of learning.

    Webster didn't get to the majors leagues by walking 45/9 IP, obviously he had something mental going on. 

    Of course Webster might never amount to anything, put it all together, or fall somewhere in between.......but starting a thread about him based on a start or two is just dumb and shows how completely clueless ADG is.

    [/QUOTE]

    Webster pitched better last night but he has never looked to have anything special.  Renaudo and others need equal mound time the remainder of the season so potential trading partners can see what we have, or what they prefer.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    Webster pitched better last night but he has never looked to have anything special. Renaudo and others need equal mound time the remainder of the season so potential trading partners can see what we have, or what they prefer.

    He's a rookie, facing the likes of Trout, Hamilton, and Pujols.

    How special do rookies usually look against guys like that?  Guys like Trout hit guys like Fekix and Darvish.  You're expecting way to much from a rookie to think he is going to simply mow down the best hitters on the planet.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    \

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The people who put together these prospect rankings are 100% aware that they don't have a crystal ball and that players don't always pan out.

    however.....professional organizations are also smart enough to understand that players take time to develop, development is not linear, and often adversity and struggle is part of learning.

    Webster didn't get to the majors leagues by walking 45/9 IP, obviously he had something mental going on. 

    Of course Webster might never amount to anything, put it all together, or fall somewhere in between.......but starting a thread about him based on a start or two is just dumb and shows how completely clueless ADG is.

    [/QUOTE]

    Webster pitched better last night but he has never looked to have anything special.  Renaudo and others need equal mound time the remainder of the season so potential trading partners can see what we have, or what they prefer.

    [/QUOTE]


    See this is what confuses me about some posters, is posts like this.  By anything special, are you talking about the results in his first 40 IP???? because yes, if you look at his stat line he looks horrible.  But the guy has a really really good change up and a mid 90's heater that moves when he keeps it down and generates nothing but ground balls. He also throws a good slider.

    Most of the times a bad pitcher doesn't have good stuff.  It's like a guy who can hit a ball 500 feet, no one can say he doesn't have power potential whether he hits 1 or 20 in a season....guys who have zero power are physically unable to hit a ball that hard.  Webster, has the physical ability to throw an above average fastball, slider and changeup and an average curve ball.

    OBVIOUSLY he hasn't always done that, but he has it in him and THAT is why he was the 2nd highest ranked pitching prospect in the Sox system.  Yes he could "never put it together" well most ranking bodies weight potential vs. likelihood of success and proximity to the majors.   If we ranked pitchers on pure stuff Webster would probably be the best pitcher in our system That's why he is being giving a long look for the rest of this season.

    Of course, he could come back and lay an egg in his next start, but even in the minors when he would struggle at a new level, when he got some consistency he became more consistent.  Perhaps last night was the beginning of him building the confidence he needs. 

    Hitting the big show for the first time can make you pitch differently. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from chetgnat. Show chetgnat's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:


    \


    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    The people who put together these prospect rankings are 100% aware that they don't have a crystal ball and that players don't always pan out.


    however.....professional organizations are also smart enough to understand that players take time to develop, development is not linear, and often adversity and struggle is part of learning.


    Webster didn't get to the majors leagues by walking 45/9 IP, obviously he had something mental going on. 


    Of course Webster might never amount to anything, put it all together, or fall somewhere in between.......but starting a thread about him based on a start or two is just dumb and shows how completely clueless ADG is.




    Webster pitched better last night but he has never looked to have anything special.  Renaudo and others need equal mound time the remainder of the season so potential trading partners can see what we have, or what they prefer.


    [/QUOTE]



    See this is what confuses me about some posters, is posts like this.  By anything special, are you talking about the results in his first 40 IP???? because yes, if you look at his stat line he looks horrible.  But the guy has a really really good change up and a mid 90's heater that moves when he keeps it down and generates nothing but ground balls. He also throws a good slider.


    Most of the times a bad pitcher doesn't have good stuff.  It's like a guy who can hit a ball 500 feet, no one can say he doesn't have power potential whether he hits 1 or 20 in a season....guys who have zero power are physically unable to hit a ball that hard.  Webster, has the physical ability to throw an above average fastball, slider and changeup and an average curve ball.


    OBVIOUSLY he hasn't always done that, but he has it in him and THAT is why he was the 2nd highest ranked pitching prospect in the Sox system.  Yes he could "never put it together" well most ranking bodies weight potential vs. likelihood of success and proximity to the majors.   If we ranked pitchers on pure stuff Webster would probably be the best pitcher in our system That's why he is being giving a long look for the rest of this season.


    Of course, he could come back and lay an egg in his next start, but even in the minors when he would struggle at a new level, when he got some consistency he became more consistent.  Perhaps last night was the beginning of him building the confidence he needs. 


    Hitting the big show for the first time can make you pitch differently. 


    [/QUOTE]

    nothing like a player who, when he gets some consistency, becomes more consistent.


    sorry, had to be said. and no, i don't think Webster will amount to much at the major league level. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: CtHugh - Webster is a AAAA pitcher

    In response to chetgnat's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    \

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    The people who put together these prospect rankings are 100% aware that they don't have a crystal ball and that players don't always pan out.

     

    however.....professional organizations are also smart enough to understand that players take time to develop, development is not linear, and often adversity and struggle is part of learning.

     

    Webster didn't get to the majors leagues by walking 45/9 IP, obviously he had something mental going on. 

     

    Of course Webster might never amount to anything, put it all together, or fall somewhere in between.......but starting a thread about him based on a start or two is just dumb and shows how completely clueless ADG is.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Webster pitched better last night but he has never looked to have anything special.  Renaudo and others need equal mound time the remainder of the season so potential trading partners can see what we have, or what they prefer.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    See this is what confuses me about some posters, is posts like this.  By anything special, are you talking about the results in his first 40 IP???? because yes, if you look at his stat line he looks horrible.  But the guy has a really really good change up and a mid 90's heater that moves when he keeps it down and generates nothing but ground balls. He also throws a good slider.

     

    Most of the times a bad pitcher doesn't have good stuff.  It's like a guy who can hit a ball 500 feet, no one can say he doesn't have power potential whether he hits 1 or 20 in a season....guys who have zero power are physically unable to hit a ball that hard.  Webster, has the physical ability to throw an above average fastball, slider and changeup and an average curve ball.

     

    OBVIOUSLY he hasn't always done that, but he has it in him and THAT is why he was the 2nd highest ranked pitching prospect in the Sox system.  Yes he could "never put it together" well most ranking bodies weight potential vs. likelihood of success and proximity to the majors.   If we ranked pitchers on pure stuff Webster would probably be the best pitcher in our system That's why he is being giving a long look for the rest of this season.

     

    Of course, he could come back and lay an egg in his next start, but even in the minors when he would struggle at a new level, when he got some consistency he became more consistent.  Perhaps last night was the beginning of him building the confidence he needs. 

     

    Hitting the big show for the first time can make you pitch differently. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    nothing like a player who, when he gets some consistency, becomes more consistent.

     

    sorry, had to be said. and no, i don't think Webster will amount to much at the major league level. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok BUT, what type of consistency has Webster ever been given at the MLB level???  This is the second time he's ever been given 3 starts *the first being his 3rd start ever) in a row and just pitched his best game last night.  So you can't really say he's ever been given consistency....because he hasn't

     

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