Curt Young

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    Curt Young

    What value does this guy have?  Beckett is the only starting pitcher who has really pitched as expected this season.  Yet although his numbers look really good, he is pretty much a 6 inning pitcher.  In the bullpen, Aceves and Papelbon are the only ones who have been consistently good throughout the year.  Other than those three, the rest of the entire staff has either regressed or have had serious injuries.  Our "young pitchers," Dubront and Weiland, have been mediocre and awful, respectively.  It seems that it is tolerable for the Sox staff to constantly fall behind batters and walk people.  If they throw a strike, it's usually down the heart of the plate.  There's got to be someone much better out there who can actually steer a ship through troubled waters or help pitchers improve.
     
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    Re: Curt Young

    In Response to Curt Young:
    [QUOTE]What value does this guy have?  Beckett is the only starting pitcher who has really pitched as expected this season.  Yet although his numbers look really good, he is pretty much a 6 inning pitcher.  In the bullpen, Aceves and Papelbon are the only ones who have been consistently good throughout the year.  Other than those three, the rest of the entire staff has either regressed or have had serious injuries.  Our "young pitchers," Dubront and Weiland, have been mediocre and awful, respectively.  It seems that it is tolerable for the Sox staff to constantly fall behind batters and walk people.  If they throw a strike, it's usually down the heart of the plate.  There's got to be someone much better out there who can actually steer a ship through troubled waters or help pitchers improve.
    Posted by rharts9[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Curt Young

    In Response to Re: Curt Young:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Curt Young :
    Posted by boboinfla[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. People complained about Farrell last year. Little did they know that this moneyball stiff would show up. Shaughnessy got it right. If Sox make playoffs, don't allow them to play. Young is only part of the problem, but I feel he has  added zero to the team.
     
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    Re: Curt Young

    In Response to Re: Curt Young:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Curt Young : Agreed. People complained about Farrell last year. Little did they know that this moneyball stiff would show up. Shaughnessy got it right. If Sox make playoffs, don't allow them to play. Young is only part of the problem, but I feel he has  added zero to the team.
    Posted by boboinfla[/QUOTE]

    Generally, if one doesn't add to a team, one detracts from a team.
    Young went from coaching a staff in Oakland, where the numbers are heavily skewed due to pitching in a huge pitching venue, to being under the microscope of Boston and Fenway.

    Injuries are caused by occupation/age/training/mechanics.
    Several key pitchers have lost velocity this year. That's due to poor mechanics/injury.

    Young's degree of responsibility for what has become perhaps the worst stretch of pitching (in Sept.) and most injured amount of pitchers in one
    season can no longer be ignored.
     
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    Re: Curt Young

    In Response to Re: Curt Young:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Curt Young : Generally, if one doesn't add to a team, one detracts from a team. Young went from coaching a staff in Oakland, where the numbers are heavily skewed due to pitching in a huge pitching venue, to being under the microscope of Boston and Fenway. Injuries are caused by occupation/age/training/mechanics. Several key pitchers have lost velocity this year. That's due to poor mechanics/injury. Young's degree of responsibility for what has become perhaps the worst stretch of pitching (in Sept.) and most injured amount of pitchers in one season   can no longer be ignored.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Great post.  Very good points and I definitely agree with you. 
     
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    Re: Curt Young

    He certainly hasn't added anything to what Farrell brought to the table, at least so far.
     
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    Re: Curt Young

                                 Last year when the pitching blew up it was Farrell's fault. Farrell left and here we are a year later and Toronto's pitching staff hasn't blown up yet and the RS staff has again. It wasn't Farrell's fault last year and it isn't Youngs fault this year. These guys take orders.They don't dictate. They are part of TF's coaching staff. Orders flow top to bottom. 
     
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    Re: Curt Young

    In Response to Re: Curt Young:
    [QUOTE]                             Last year when the pitching blew up it was Farrell's fault. Farrell left and here we are a year later and Toronto's pitching staff hasn't blown up yet and the RS staff has again. It wasn't Farrell's fault last year and it isn't Youngs fault this year. These guys take orders.They don't dictate. They are part of TF's coaching staff. Orders flow top to bottom. 
    Posted by eggplants[/QUOTE]

    You are coming up short. Young is the pitching coach. His job description is to know his pitchers' mechanics like the back of his hand... Stay glued to video to spot any deviation in delivery. Also, it's on him to ensure pitchers do proper training exercises.

    He gave in to Dice's long-throw sessions in ST.
    Buch/Lester and at times Becket have lost velocity this year.
    Lester threw 96-97 in 2010 - under Farrell.
    Buch (before his injury) threw similar.

    This year Lester has basically thrown 93 MPH, with variance. Same as Buch in April.
    Less MPH means less margin for error.
    Erratic/poor mechanics is direct reflection on Young.
    Farrell was a great communicator and sounding board. Many pitchers alluded to this. I've not seen much of anything favoring Young in similar allusions.

    Where Young "takes orders" is during game time.
     
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    Re: Curt Young

                               Harness, ......Got to disagree with you on the pitching coach stuff. Farrell was here for three years. He was being groomed to take over the managers job. Pitching philosophy is a top to bottom way of going about a particular baseball task. From the lowliest A-Ball team to the parent club, this particular task is taught a certain way. All pitching coaches at every level in the organization are aware of this. It has to be this way because it allows for continuity through the system as pitchers move up. It involves things like pitch counts, slide step or no slide step, windup, no windup, stretch position adjustments and other things. Young came from Oakland a year ago. When he got here they didn't say Curt, make it happen. They said Curt, This is how we do it here and handed him the book of information on every pitcher on the 40 man roster. Young's job is to implement the program, whatever that may be. He,Young, takes notes and makes observations on what he sees. Others read the notes and observations and information gets diseminated. If something needs to be done then he is told what to do in order to achieve the desired results. As far as Farrell being a great communicator and sounding board.....maybe, but not last September and as far as Young is concerned, he's following the same book Farrell did. Something is wrong with the book.
     
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    Re: Curt Young

    In Response to Curt Young:
    [QUOTE]What value does this guy have?  Beckett is the only starting pitcher who has really pitched as expected this season.  Yet although his numbers look really good, he is pretty much a 6 inning pitcher.  In the bullpen, Aceves and Papelbon are the only ones who have been consistently good throughout the year.  Other than those three, the rest of the entire staff has either regressed or have had serious injuries.  Our "young pitchers," Dubront and Weiland, have been mediocre and awful, respectively.  It seems that it is tolerable for the Sox staff to constantly fall behind batters and walk people.  If they throw a strike, it's usually down the heart of the plate.  There's got to be someone much better out there who can actually steer a ship through troubled waters or help pitchers improve.
    Posted by rharts9[/QUOTE]

    I think he is the one who supplies Francona with his seeds.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Curt Young

    In Response to Re: Curt Young:
    [QUOTE]                           Harness, ......Got to disagree with you on the pitching coach stuff. Farrell was here for three years. He was being groomed to take over the managers job. Pitching philosophy is a top to bottom way of going about a particular baseball task. From the lowliest A-Ball team to the parent club, this particular task is taught a certain way. All pitching coaches at every level in the organization are aware of this. It has to be this way because it allows for continuity through the system as pitchers move up. It involves things like pitch counts, slide step or no slide step, windup, no windup, stretch position adjustments and other things. Young came from Oakland a year ago. When he got here they didn't say Curt, make it happen. They said Curt, This is how we do it here and handed him the book of information on every pitcher on the 40 man roster. Young's job is to implement the program, whatever that may be. He,Young, takes notes and makes observations on what he sees. Others read the notes and observations and information gets diseminated. If something needs to be done then he is told what to do in order to achieve the desired results. As far as Farrell being a great communicator and sounding board.....maybe, but not last September and as far as Young is concerned, he's following the same book Farrell did. Something is wrong with the book.
    Posted by eggplants[/QUOTE]

    I disagree. If that were true, if it all was about the "book", then every pitching coach in an organization would be the same: good, bad or ugly.

    That's not the case. Procedure doesn't change, but one's attention to detail and communication skills and study of video to detect flaws is on the individual.

    It's like if you and another guy were hired to do the same job, and both were taught procedure by the same "book", it doesn't mean he will do the job exactly as you would...or as well or poorly as you would. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from boboinfla. Show boboinfla's posts

    Re: Curt Young

    In Response to Re: Curt Young:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Curt Young : I disagree. If that were true, if it all was about the "book", then every pitching coach in an organization would be the same: good, bad or ugly. That's not the case. Procedure doesn't change, but one's attention to detail and communication skills and study of video to detect flaws is on the individual. It's like if you and another guy were hired to do the same job, and both were taught procedure by the same "book", it doesn't mean he will do the job exactly as you would...or as well or poorly as you would. 
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Harness: the Sox need tohire a P C who doesn't read that book. Either Young goes because Tito stays or the book needs a new author.
     
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