CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

     2ND TIME AROUND THE LINE-UP, THE BATTERS WILL TEE OFF ON BARD...... HE NEEDS TO STAY IN THE PEN !!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    Your lips - and your dad's lips - to God's ears, Bill. 

    Bard as a starter is a non-starter.

    Seriously.


     
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    In Response to CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........:
    [QUOTE] 2ND TIME AROUND THE LINE-UP, THE BATTERS WILL TEE OFF ON BARD...... HE NEEDS TO STAY IN THE PEN !!!
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]

    I agree he has more value staying in bullpen.  However there are few tempting reasons that that might move Bard to the rotation. 

    Sox are in need of starters.
    Bard has starter stuff.  (he would probably limit his fastball speed below 100 and stay around 97 when converted to starter.  his sliders and breaking balls are nasty and can be very effective even as a starter)
    He wants to start, not to close.
    Sox won't get any low buying effective pitchers in either FA markets or trade. 

    IMO, Bobby V should at least give him full spring training as a starter and see how he does.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    he has not said he wants to start, he has said he will start or close, as a starter in the minors his era was over 7. make him the closer and get phatasss jenks to setup
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    according to everything I've read they are planning on stretching him out asap! How effective he would be remains to be seen as noone has seen him start since A ball. Aceves also wants a crack at the 5th slot in the rotation as does Alex Wilson,Andrew Miller and a whole slew of minor leaguers.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from craig2174. Show craig2174's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    for those who keep talking about Bard's era in the minors as a strted that was several years ago... Don't you think maybe he has gotten better as a pitcher in the past few years.....  He was lights out in college, can he really be worse than Lackey?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    This falls under you don't know until you try.....why not give him a shot?? nothing ventured, nothing gained.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........:
    [QUOTE]This falls under you don't know until you try.....why not give him a shot?? nothing ventured, nothing gained.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    J- I disagree.  The problem with giving him a shot is that, if it doesn't work out, then they are stuck without a starter and we are back to 2011 without enough depth.  And, while we know that Aceves can be at least a serviceable as a starter, but Bard is a giant question mark.  I say, leave well enough alone.  Even if he can start, I think the learning curve/adaptation process will be bumpy for a few months regardless.  So, why not just keep our closer (who is better than any of the more expensive options still available) and use that money on a proven starter?  I think there may be nothing ventured/nothing gained, but there is atually much to lose in this case.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER.......... : J- I disagree.  The problem with giving him a shot is that, if it doesn't work out, then they are stuck without a starter and we are back to 2011 without enough depth.  And, while we know that Aceves can be at least a serviceable as a starter, but Bard is a giant question mark.  I say, leave well enough alone.  Even if he can start, I think the learning curve/adaptation process will be bumpy for a few months regardless.  So, why not just keep our closer (who is better than any of the more expensive options still available) and use that money on a proven starter?  I think there may be nothing ventured/nothing gained, but there is atually much to lose in this case.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    I'v been on the fence about this Space. IF they are not planning to make Bard the closer and he wants to start, I think he shoud be give the opportunity, if for no other reason, to prove to himself one one way or the other. If it's successful great, we found a starter within the system. if not, bard and the sox know he's a bullpen arm. The real dilemma is, not to let both Aceves and Bard start. One or the other.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER.......... : I'v been on the fence about this Space. IF they are not planning to make Bard the closer and he wants to start, I think he shoud be give the opportunity, if for no other reason than, to prove to himself one one way or the other. If it's successful great, we found a starter within the system. if not, bard and the sox know he's a bullpen arm. The real delema is not to let both aceves and bard start. one or the other.
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    Sure.  I dig that line of thinking.  The problem, in my mind, is that, if they commit to trying to make him a starter, and it doesn't work out, who starts when he goes back to the pen?  We are looking at a Doubront/Weiland/Tazawa hope-and-pray scenario then.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER.......... : Sure.  I dig that line of thinking.  The problem, in my mind, is that, if they commit to trying to make him a starter, and it doesn't work out, who starts when he goes back to the pen?  We are looking at a Doubront/Weiland/Tazawa hope-and-pray scenario then.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    ya, but who else are they going to acquire to start?? with limited funds to add to payroll to avoid the luxery tax, i think we're forced to look within the system. They may be counting on Dice K returning, at some point. I think they pick up a starter and go with one internally. The question is...Bard or Aceves. long relief or closer??
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER.......... : ya, but who else are they going to acquire to start?? with limited funds to add to payroll to avoid the luxery tax, i think we're forced to look within the system. They may be counting on Dice K returning, at some point. I think they pick up a starter and go with one internally. The question is...Bard or Aceves. long relief or closer??
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    Agreed.  They have to go out and get at least one (Bedard?).  Then, my vote is for Aceves to join the ro.  Just because he is a pit bull and a relatively known commodity as a starter.  Just my, um, conservative nature I guess, but the thought of taking such a huge gamble on Bard doesn't sit well with me.  But, in your line of thinking, as long as they go get one guy on the market, i am ok with giving both those guys a shot and seeing what comes.  Get a potential closer in case Bard does cut the starter mustard, and then if he doesn't, we have a solid back end.  Come to think of it, gotta go get that guy anyway, even if Bard is not groomed as starter.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER.......... : Agreed.  They have to go out and get at least one (Bedard?).  Then, my vote is for Aceves to join the ro.  Just because he is a pit bull and a relatively known commodity as a starter.  Just my, um, conservative nature I guess, but the thought of taking such a huge gamble on Bard doesn't sit well with me.  But, in your line of thinking, as long as they go get one guy on the market, i am ok with giving both those guys a shot and seeing what comes.  Get a potential closer in case Bard does cut the starter mustard, and then if he doesn't, we have a solid back end.  Come to think of it, gotta go get that guy anyway, even if Bard is not groomed as starter.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    ya,  they need to sure up the rotation and pen either way, 6 or half dozen of the other. (wheeler declined arbitration)There was some unknown reason they didn't put Aceves in the starting rotation last season. Francona's reasoning was, who would replace him in long relief, but I wondered if there was more to it. Aceves back issues?? As far as Badard goes, I'd bring him back. He's got the stuff, has the calm demeanour to play in Boston and proven in the ALE. He came off the DL and was thrown out there, without a rehab assignment, down the horrendous stretch.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    He has a few pitches other than the fastball. Has a slider, slurve, cutter, two-seamer and circle change.

    White Sox are making Chris Sale at starter, why not Bard.

    I like him at the Hold guy, which is underated role.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

     "Just my, um, conservative nature I guess, but the thought of taking such a huge gamble on Bard doesn't sit well with me. "

    Space, say it ain't so!! Your (rather unconventional) namesake would be amused, to say the least. (Or, I guess you are his namesake, but, well, you get the point.) I think this might be the first time I have to disagree with you, but I had not gathered before that you are so conservative. (I, on the other hand, like to take risks and think outside the box.) So I agree with Jay--you will never know until you try, and besides it's not like the Sox have not sought to leave camp with 6 starters--just in case--before, so they could just adopt the same mentality this time around. I actually think Bard would become a much more accomplished pitcher as a starter, precisely because he would have to develop more pitches and creativity to his mix of pitches, since he would be seeing the opposition order more than once in a game. We need a few guys that actually turn into some wonderful serendipities, instead a nonstop stream of disappointments like Dice and Lackey, etc. Mix things up a little and see what happens. It's not like the team played great with the current mix. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from phxvlsoxfan. Show phxvlsoxfan's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    It's a gamble no matter how you go.  Trying Bard as a starter and picking up a proven closer looks like the cheaper and more viable option, and has much more upside potential.  Beyond Lester, there are no sure things in the current rotation.  Take a look at Beckett's even year performances.  Buch has to prove his durability.  Miller is a disaster waiting to happen any given night.  I doubt Bedard will be back (doubt he would want to come back).  Aceves has an injury history that scared NYY even with his great numbers and their desperation for SPs.  It looks like Wake is not coming back.  The farm has largely been spent so it will be hard to get even one top starter through trade.  I don't see any logical alternative other than trying Bard as a starter.  Give it a chance through July and if it doesn't work and the season is still alive, there will be a number of arm rentals that could be had at the trading deadline, or who knows, DiceK may be able to help.

    Any thoughts/talk about giving Morales a shot as SP depth?  He seems more ready than Dubrount or Weiland.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    just my .02 cents but how cool would it be to see bobby jenks show up to spring trainning in really good shape minus about 50+ lbs or so. with a healthy arm and body the problem of closer is all fixed. just saying. He did close for the other sox didn't he. we have not heard word one on jenks as to what he is up to or how hard he is trainning right now. one can only hope.
    again: just my humble .02 cents.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    Seasons Greetings Hammah

    The Sox have a lot of intrical moving parts, as far as pitching.  I read recently Jenks health issues have all been resolved and he's been medically cleared to play without restrictions....his weight is another matter. That said, as far as I remember, he was never what I'd call a physical speciman
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........:
    [QUOTE]according to everything I've read they are planning on stretching him out asap! How effective he would be remains to be seen as noone has seen him start since A ball. Aceves also wants a crack at the 5th slot in the rotation as does Alex Wilson,Andrew Miller and a whole slew of minor leaguers.
    Posted by sportsbozo1[/QUOTE]

    I have also heard that Aceves wants to become a starter.  I would rather him assume a starting role than Bard.  I like the idea of Bard remaining in the bullpen and sharing the closing role with another closer that still needs to be signed.  If he is an effective closer than he can assume the position on a full-time basis next year. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........:
    [QUOTE]just my .02 cents but how cool would it be to see bobby jenks show up to spring trainning in really good shape minus about 50+ lbs or so. with a healthy arm and body the problem of closer is all fixed. just saying. He did close for the other sox didn't he. we have not heard word one on jenks as to what he is up to or how hard he is trainning right now. one can only hope. again: just my humble .02 cents.
    Posted by Hammah29r2[/QUOTE]

    hahahaha ..... HAHAHAHAHA ..... HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!!

    Thanks Hammah ol' pal.  Its rainy and gloomy here in Gotham and I needed a good laugh to cheer me up.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    I think Bard and Aceves should both stay in the BP - that way the BP is pretty well set for next year...just add a few cheapies.  If the Sox try to make Bard or Aceves a starter or both, the BP then becomes a weakness and the SP becomes a question mark.  Better to just have to deal with picking up a starter than try to change roles for the two strengths in the BP.  Yanks tried it with Joba and Hughes and it was a disaster for them both and now neither one is worth a hoot to them.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    In Response to Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........:
    [QUOTE] "Just my, um, conservative nature I guess, but the thought of taking such a huge gamble on Bard doesn't sit well with me. " Space, say it ain't so!! Your (rather unconventional) namesake would be amused, to say the least. (Or, I guess you are his namesake, but, well, you get the point.) I think this might be the first time I have to disagree with you, but I had not gathered before that you are so conservative. (I, on the other hand, like to take risks and think outside the box.) So I agree with Jay--you will never know until you try, and besides it's not like the Sox have not sought to leave camp with 6 starters--just in case--before, so they could just adopt the same mentality this time around. I actually think Bard would become a much more accomplished pitcher as a starter, precisely because he would have to develop more pitches and creativity to his mix of pitches, since he would be seeing the opposition order more than once in a game. We need a few guys that actually turn into some wonderful serendipities, instead a nonstop stream of disappointments like Dice and Lackey, etc. Mix things up a little and see what happens. It's not like the team played great with the current mix. 
    Posted by pschuller[/QUOTE]

    P-Schul, I spoke of my 'conservative nature' with a big cosmic wink.  And my issue with trying out Bard as a starter only has to do with making sure that there is someone serviceable in the fold should it not work out.  I just don't want to see them not go out and get someone because they want to roll with D. Bard as a starter.  

    And, beyond that, I think he is going to make a monster closer for cheap.  So, since they would have to spend probably the same amount of dough on a starter insurance policy just in case it doesn't work AND a closer, why not just keep him where he is most likely to succeed and go get a proven starter.  

    That being said, I am not sure who the proven starter is out there that is realistic in terms of money and/or trade chips.  I thought it would be Bedard, but now thats off, so maybe it IS time to get liberal and roll the dice on D. Bard the starter.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    just my .02 cents but how cool would it be to see bobby jenks show up to spring trainning in really good shape minus about 50+ lbs or so. with a healthy arm and body the problem of closer is all fixed. just saying. He did close for the other sox didn't he. we have not heard word one on jenks as to what he is up to or how hard he is trainning right now. one can only hope.
    again: just my humble .02 cents.


    Your humble 2 cents is worth more than the collective IQ of this board. Your point is a direct hit. The Red Sox need for their BBC to actually take there jobs seriously and show up eager and grateful to be able to work hard everyday.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    That's (at least) the second time you've made some disparaging remark about the collective IQ of this board.  Are you aware that that includes YOURS?  Laughing
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: CUT THE TALK ABOUT BARD AS A STARTER..........

    posted at 12/7/2011 1:46 PM EST
    Posts: 8644
    First: 4/8/2009
    Last: 12/7/2011
    Seasons Greetings Hammah

    The Sox have a lot of intrical moving parts, as far as pitching. I read recently Jenks health issues have all been resolved and he's been medically cleared to play without restrictions....his weight is another matter. That said, as far as I remember, he was never what I'd call a physical speciman




    and a very merry xmas and a happy new year to you to "J".

    tell ya J, if Jenks is medically cleared as you say, he should be out west working with a trainer and trying his damdest to get rid of the stomach. he knows that paps is gone now and it could be the perfect opportunity for him to step right into the closer spot.....and I'm glad that I was able to give you a chuckle spaceman old pard. so tell me one thing, what would you say if I told you that I heard a rumor that they were gonna give 49 one more year eh?
    oh my aching aunt bertha! I can hear the laughing all the way up here in beantown.

    God bless ya space and all the spacecadets! a very merry xmas to ya'll and here's hoping that the guys and gals in fatigues get to come home for the holidays.

    Hammah out!

     
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