Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jamesey271975. Show jamesey271975's posts

    Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    Anyone else think these two are very similar. Both way over rated. Both were apparently certs for the closers role when the amazing closer at their club already retired. And both not even close to being anywhere near a closer. 

    I absolutely HATE seeing Bard come into a close game in the 8th. Id be much happier with him being a 7th inning guy. Problem is hes the second best reliver we've got. Hopefully Albers doesnt let Sat destroy a great start. 

    We better either re sign Paps or go find another closer cos theres no way Bard is a 9th inning pitcher you'd wanna bring in with the game on the line. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Saluda. Show Saluda's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    I said it once I have said it many times.. Bard gets beaten AGAIN on breaking balls while the guy has a 100mph fastball.. once more to the coaches.. Goose Gossage made the HOF throwing his gas not breaking balls..

    at least Bard should almost never throw breaking balls in the strike zone.. he gets killed on breaking balls and is lights out on his heater... when Bard comes in a close game like tonight throw all 100 mph heat and dare the hitters to get ahold of it.. holy crap can anyone else see it?.. if you have a guy who throws 100mph gas then throw it.. stupid stupid stupid to throw anything else,,, even if they hit it it's 95% an out... that's it Francoma
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jamesey271975. Show jamesey271975's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    In Response to Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain:
    I said it once I have said it many times.. Bard gets beaten AGAIN on breaking balls while the guy has a 100mph fastball.. once more to the coaches.. Goose Gossage made the HOF throwing his gas not breaking balls.. at least Bard should almost never throw breaking balls in the strike zone.. he gets killed on breaking balls and is lights out on his heater... when Bard comes in a close game like tonight throw all 100 mph heat and dare the hitters to get ahold of it.. holy crap can anyone else see it?.. if you have a guy who throws 100mph gas then throw it.. stupid stupid stupid to throw anything else,,, even if they hit it it's 95% an out... that's it Francoma
    Posted by Saluda

    Although i agree with you he got beat twice tonight on fastballs traight down the middle. First one to tie it at 97mph and the second at 98mph. Havent seen him hit 100mph once this year. I honestly just think hes way over rated. Every other kid coming up in the minors throws 96mph now, its not enough without another out pitch and he doesnt have it. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    Joba was messed up because they moved him back and forth between reliever and starter.  Bard is pitching in the beginning of only his second full MLB season, and while he has regressed from last year he is still an above average MLB reliever, 25 years old with all the talent in the world.  The kid is a stud....he'll be just fine. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from billybang. Show billybang's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    Last time I checked Joba's getting the job done
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    In Response to Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain:
    Last time I checked Joba's getting the job done
    Posted by billybang


    He sure hasn't done it against Boston.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    interesting that you brought joba up

    because I was comparing the 2 this morning

    both with plenty on time to improve towards greatness

    I was kind of surprise to see that joba was a yr younger (25)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Saluda. Show Saluda's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    if I'm wrong I'm wrong but I thought the two hits that tied the game and then the ahead run were not on fast balls.. sorry
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Saluda. Show Saluda's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    ok so I'm wrong.. if Bard is getting killed with a 98mph fastballs then so be it.. don't mix them up.. Bard should toss 98mph gas only and let it all hang out.. I have seen him lose a lot lately by thowing breaking pitches but not 100mph fastballs0..

     so the last two pitches that Bard threw that got Cleveland the victory were fast balls?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    Bard is overrated.  No arguing that.  He's turning more into a middle reliever than a closer. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    Middle reliever?  Yell
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    In Response to Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain:
    I said it once I have said it many times.. Bard gets beaten AGAIN on breaking balls while the guy has a 100mph fastball.. once more to the coaches.. Goose Gossage made the HOF throwing his gas not breaking balls.. at least Bard should almost never throw breaking balls in the strike zone.. he gets killed on breaking balls and is lights out on his heater... when Bard comes in a close game like tonight throw all 100 mph heat and dare the hitters to get ahold of it.. holy crap can anyone else see it?.. if you have a guy who throws 100mph gas then throw it.. stupid stupid stupid to throw anything else,,, even if they hit it it's 95% an out... that's it Francoma
    Posted by Saluda


    He did get beat with the fastball tonight(the location of the pitches was not great), but in his last outing he got beat on his offspeed stuff and was hitting 98+ on the gun and no one seemingly was getting a good swing on his number 1.  I fail to understand what is smart or effective "pitching" in this way.

    Paplebon's price goes up every day and he sure knows it!  He has sox management over a barrel right now!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    The season has a long way to go.  Papelbon has looked great, Bard inconsistent.  But in the funny game that is baseball, things can turn around in a minute.  It is true that Bard doesn't look like a man who knows what he's doing or how to use most effectively the gift of power in his arm. But he's still a young pitcher who, according to reports, is easy to coach. Let's not dismiss him prematurely.   
    In tonight's game, the 1 and 2 pitch should have been the out pitch. The idea to go low and away was a good one, but Bard missed by just enough so that the batter didn't bite.  Give the batter credit.  The next pitch, a fastball, was hittable and got hit.  Brantley had a very good AB. 
    Bard will probably remain in the set-up role because there is no logical replacement and, in true Tito fashion, he'll be given more time to get the job done.
    All the same, there is no question that Papelbon's stock is rising.  Since he has indicated all along that he will test the FA market, that is probably what will happen.  At this point, it's useless to speculate about what other clubs and the Sox will be prepared to offer. Let's play the season.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from isurfvb35. Show isurfvb35's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    trade him he only has a fastball and that is suspect at times. or send him down to pawtucket and let him develop a change up and a split finger, if not he is a one year wonder.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    hasn't Bard pitched in more "pressure situations" than Paplbon his year? the "save" is an over rated statistic. Sox can bring Paplbon in for the 8th inning every now and then, but coose Bard. Clearly they love Bard in that situation. Call him whatever you want, closer, #1 bullpen guy...whatever. But Bard is the guy the Sox want in the game when they need to stop the bleeding. 
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    Bard has 24 appearances this year: most were high leverage situations, but we are only talking about a less than 25 IP sample size.

    Opponents have a .987 OPS vs Bard in high leverage situations, however career wise, it is still at .624 (almost the same as his overall number of .612).

    He's had 7 bad games, which for a top set-up guy is very troubling.

    His WHIP (1.014) is below his career number (1.096).
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    what happened to the goofy people last season who called for Bard to replace John (immediately at that time)?  Well?  What happened to those posters?


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from cpjohn1. Show cpjohn1's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    I'm glad Bard is screwing up now and not waiting until Paps leaves to pitch bad.  Now we know we need to keep Paps.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    In Response to Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain:
    I'm glad Bard is screwing up now and not waiting until Paps leaves to pitch bad.  Now we know we need to keep Paps.
    Posted by cpjohn1



    Sox management doesn't necessarily "know this" as in long term contracts to a closer who will be 32 at the beginning of the  new contract.  I would bet it ain't happening even if he could continue to produce at a high level for 3-4 seasons.  He is looking for 12+ million per year for probably 5 years(60+ million).  I don't see the sox commiting that much to a closer.  It could happen out of necessity, they will definately have the resources(Drew's contract is up among others) but I would bet Theo will make other arrangements.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    In Response to Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain:
    what happened to the goofy people last season who called for Bard to replace John (immediately at that time)?  Well?  What happened to those posters?
    Posted by BurritoT


    Actual performance got in the way of their fantasy scenario.

    Damn reality.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    Wow guys, overreact much?

    To be overrated, you have to be regarded as far better than you really are. What was Bard regarded as going into this season? An excellent setup man and FUTURE (as in "he has the tools to evolve into the role") closer?

    So he's had an inconsistent two months and suddenly he's light years behind that?

    If you've been paying attention to Bard's career, last year he WAS an elite setup man, so he's been excellent for a full season already (unlike the other pitcher mentioned in this thread, whose career has been consistently marked only by inconsistency). And the reasons for Bard's struggles are actually pretty apparent. His mechanics are all out of whack...he's been letting his shoulder fly open (which causes his fastball to fly high above the strike zone), and when he tries to adjust mid-inning he then starts to overthrow the fastball (putting it low below the zone). Because of his weak confidence with his fastball command, he's been behind in the count FAR too often, and that prevents him from using his curveball, which has always been effective when hitters have to look fastball (his command of it has never been great, but it doesn't have to be...the break and speed difference is enough to fool hitters who have to look fastball).

    Last year he had a couple of mph more on his fastball (probably due to confident mechanics), could command it well enough, and could finish hitters with a mix of fastball and curveball...this year, he's thrown a lot of balls, and has largely abandoned his fastball. And here's the kicker...he still hasn't been half bad! Like Papelbon last year, a "bad" Bard is still quite good, just not as good as we've come to expect and as we've come to rely on.

    But until/unless he does this for all of 2011 AND pitches like this next year as well, calling him "overrated" is foolish and reactionary. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume he's just in a mechanics funk, as all pitchers get stuck in at times, and soon enough he'll straighten up.

    P.S. On the game-tying hit last night, Bard got exactly what any pitcher wants...a mediocre ground ball. It slipped through a hole...it happens. Sometimes there's a little bit of bad luck involved with these small samplings as well.

    P.P.S. One thing I will agree with is, until Bard fixes his mechanics, I hold my breath any time he comes into a close game. At this point I've come to expect him to walk the leadoff guy every time, even the likes of bums like Adam Everett. So...maybe Curt Young should get to work?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    Joba has been disappointing in his last five seasons.


    must be than new math hey slomag
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain

    In Response to Re: Daniel "our future closer" Bard and Joba Chamberlain:
    I said it once I have said it many times.. Bard gets beaten AGAIN on breaking balls while the guy has a 100mph fastball.. once more to the coaches.. Goose Gossage made the HOF throwing his gas not breaking balls.. at least Bard should almost never throw breaking balls in the strike zone.. he gets killed on breaking balls and is lights out on his heater... when Bard comes in a close game like tonight throw all 100 mph heat and dare the hitters to get ahold of it.. holy crap can anyone else see it?.. if you have a guy who throws 100mph gas then throw it.. stupid stupid stupid to throw anything else,,, even if they hit it it's 95% an out... that's it Francoma
    Posted by Saluda


    If he goes 100% gas it won't be long before his outings look like batting practice(much more so than they do now). That takes all the guesswork out of what's coming and the hitters just have to catch up with it, which they will. It's much harder to catch up with a 99 MPH fastball when you have to take the time to read the pitch in order to recognize it as opposed to knowing what it will be before it's thrown.

    This is why they say a good changeup makes a fast ball better, and vice versa.
     
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