Daniel Bard

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Daniel Bard

    Zac - tough choices there, my friend. I think Bard is the closer until proven otherwise.  FO may see this as a way to save some $$ by pocketing Paps' salary and going with Bard at closer and someone else at setup.

    Some of that spare cash could be put toward a rent-a-rightie for RF - Beltran, Cuddyer or someone else.  Cuddyer is intriguing because he can play 3B - and he can DH, of course, so he is flexible. Might be worth a look.

    My point, and occasionally I do have one, is that these moves are all inter-related.  Theo overspent on AGon and Crawford.  What's left is finite. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Daniel Bard

    In Response to Re: Daniel Bard:
    [QUOTE]Zac - tough choices there, my friend. I think Bard is the closer until proven otherwise.  FO may see this as a way to save some $$ by pocketing Paps' salary and going with Bard at closer and someone else at setup. Some of that spare cash could be put toward a rent-a-rightie for RF - Beltran, Cuddyer or someone else.  Cuddyer is intriguing because he can play 3B - and he can DH, of course, so he is flexible. Might be worth a look. My point, and occasionally I do have one, is that these moves are all inter-related.  Theo overspent on AGon and Crawford.  What's left is finite. 
    Posted by summerof67[/QUOTE]

    Yup.  I really think the closer should be Bard, for better or for worse.  A. He is still developing, but, even based on his work last year, he is every bit as good as a Ryan Madson if he was put in that role.  And, to boot, he is AL East tested and worthy.  Money better spent on the positional options you mention, or others.  B.  I believe in things like earning your shot.  Bard has carried the water for this club the last two years as set-up guy.  This past season, i think his job as much harder, much more pressure than what Paps faced as closer, only without the glory of the almighty save.  He has earned his shot to pitch the ninth.  I think, in the same vein, Aceves has earned his shot to be in the rotation, given the openings.  That being said, if they can get a couple starters of his calibre, I would just as soon he keep his invaluable super-flex role in the pen.  But, as to Bard, no need to go out and spend FA loot on a Madson or a Bell.  Give Daniel his shot: Pick up a good set-up guy for cheaper than bringing in a closer.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Daniel Bard

    I vote starter.  And I still want Aceves to be a starter on top of that.  I would rather Bard and Aceves and a haggle (what is the right term for a group of relievers?) of new bullpen arms.  Cheaper, and less risky than going after starters on the FA market.  If both do not pan out and Matsuzaka, Weiland and Doubront fail as replacements, then a mid-season trade could be made.  But Aceves and Bard would make a great 5 man rotation if they both pitch to their potential.  They are cheap and under some team control for a few years, really setting the rotation down.  And they do not cost any of the young players the Sox need to count on to keep this team young and fresh.

    This FA market almost dictates what to do, IMO.  There are closers and setup men, and really good 7th inning guys available on the market.  There will be bargains, and the proverbial reclamation projects out there to be had cheap, to build a lot of depth, as well.  And there are Bowden, Weiland and, to some extent, Doubront around to compete as well. 

    Then the only holes to fill would be RF and DH.  I would sign Guerrero, and settle Kalish in in RF.  More righty-lefty balance, still enough offense, and all the young guys still around to move up in July or use as trade chips.  Plenty of money around to take on a second half starter close to FA, too.  Maybe take a flyer on a Harden or Webb, but no big FA starters, please.  And now robbing the farm to get a 4th or 5th starter.  Your two in house candidates have more potential. 
     
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    A second possibility to filing the two holes at DH and RF, is resigning Papi on a one-year with second year option, if they can sign Cespedes for RF.  Bring in Alomar as the manager and you might have a better shot at Cespedes, who is a FA bargain, asking only 30/at 6 years.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Daniel Bard

    I'd like to see them try both Aceves and Bard as starters.  Sign a few pen guys, good market.  Like to see them sign Beltre for right and split DH among Lava Gonzo Youk and other position players.  Lester/Beckett/Buch/Bard/Aceves, I'd feel like we'd have a good chance of winning no matter whose turn it was.
     
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    Here is my opinion on Bard turning into a Starter for next year (See the Joba as starter disaster).

    He should be the set-up man and the Sox should look to see if they can find a closer who will accept a one year deal.
     
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    In Response to Re: Daniel Bard:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Daniel Bard : Yup.  I really think the closer should be Bard, for better or for worse.  A. He is still developing, but, even based on his work last year, he is every bit as good as a Ryan Madson if he was put in that role.  And, to boot, he is AL East tested and worthy.  Money better spent on the positional options you mention, or others.  B.  I believe in things like earning your shot.  Bard has carried the water for this club the last two years as set-up guy.  This past season, i think his job as much harder, much more pressure than what Paps faced as closer, only without the glory of the almighty save.  He has earned his shot to pitch the ninth.  I think, in the same vein, Aceves has earned his shot to be in the rotation, given the openings.  That being said, if they can get a couple starters of his calibre, I would just as soon he keep his invaluable super-flex role in the pen.  But, as to Bard, no need to go out and spend FA loot on a Madson or a Bell.  Give Daniel his shot: Pick up a good set-up guy for cheaper than bringing in a closer.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Cool
     
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    In Response to Re: Daniel Bard:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Daniel Bard :  My point, and occasionally I do have one, lol summerof67 is that these moves are all inter-related should be a very interesting couple of months here with all the closer / set up men options out there now I think I would lean toward bard being a starter if those in the know really think he could do it as of now the poll with 15 votes in   it's  a 3 way tie
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]

    Cool
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Daniel Bard

    In Response to Re: Daniel Bard:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Daniel Bard :  My point, and occasionally I do have one, lol summerof67 is that these moves are all inter-related should be a very interesting couple of months here with all the closer / set up men options out there now I think I would lean toward bard being a starter if those in the know really think he could do it as of now the poll with 15 votes in   it's  a 3 way tie
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]

    Gee zac, it seems as everyday goes by, you seem to be acting more like a Sox fan than a Yankee fan...hey I think beantownzac has a nice ring to it!

    Regarding Bard, I voted to keep him in his same setup role he did so well last year (until September).

    I hope to see the Sox attack the relief pitcher market and bring in a combination of RPs like Nathan (to close), Capps and Mike Gonzalez. Adding these guys would then free up Aceves to fill one of the holes in the Sox rotation.

    Bring back Bedard and a right handed hitting RF (Beltran, if Ortiz leaves) and see what the '12 season brings under new management.
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Daniel Bard

    I doubt I'd ever want Bard to start.

    Past that, closer or setup depends on the cost of everyone else.

    If they can get Hanrahan cheap, I'd make him the closer, and Bard setup.

    If they can't trade for Hanrahan, then I'd have to weigh the $10M for Bell or madson, against the cost of obtaining 2 SPs.

    If I can get two SPs, I won't care whether Bard or an outsider close.

    But if I did get Hanrahan, and I could flip Youk for Floyd, then maybe I revert back to Aceves as setup and flip Bard for Headley.

    You kind of need a chart to see and in what order you'd need to do them in.  The beauty of Bard is that he retains a lot of value as starter or setup.  And therefore probably the last decision I make.

    But ultimately, the decision on Bard will be the same decision I always told you about with Joba.  Once the NYY re-signed Mo, they had to trade Joba.  Not because he wasn't any good, but because he was good.  Someone out there would've looked at Joba, at some point, as a top-10 closer, and would've paid more for him than he was worth to the NYY as a setup guy.  If we bring in a closer, I think we need to see how much we can get for Bard.  They'll be teams out there looking for a minimum wage closer, and will pay.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Daniel Bard

    Sorry, just don't think he has what it takes to be a closer, too timid. Perhaps later on in his carreer.
    He is neither ready to be a starter.
    I think a long man in the BP would be the best for him, particularly if they move Aceves in the rotation, someone will need to assume that role.
    Aardsma is available, and I think he might be a good option.
    I hope the RS are not still relying on Jenks.....he's a has-been.
     
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    In Response to Re: Daniel Bard:
    [QUOTE]...hey I think beantownzac has a nice ring to it! lol thanks Soxdog67 but lets go with baseballzac for the next few months sounds like a good plan Beltran, if Ortiz leaves makes a lot of sense I have wanted both bedard and Mike Gonzaleza   more than once  over the yrs as well keep waiting for them to make that next step
    Posted by pinstripezac[/QUOTE]

    careful there zac, I don't want to have to share our little secret about your allegiance to a team I'll leave unmentioned...


    That said, back to the question of Bard's role. I doubt that the Sox would even entertain moving him to the rotation. He'll either close or set-up...My guess is that if they don't sign another "closer" in FA, they'll enter the year with him closing and then see what they have in Jenks, based on his and the rest of pens performance. Look to either add a proven guy during the season or at minimum add an arm this year (Broxton?) who could also be in the mix this spring...

    As for his being converted back to a starter that is a slippery slope and it would take a couple of years to build him up to where he'd be capable of being a 30 start 200 inning guy and in the meantime there's no garantee that it would even work...
     
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    Daniel Bard as a starter would be a disaster IMO. They guy was awful in single A (which by the way was the last time he started) and has never started a game in the majors. Not only that, but stretching him out and then throwing him back into the pen if it doesn't work out could effect him mentally. And I don't think he's a closer either, yet. There is a ton of closers available this offseason and I think we should pursue one of those guys. Leave Bard where he is!
     
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    Bard have tried to be a starting pitcher in first year professional level baseball a year after pitching in college ball, but somehow he struggled by having  7.08 ERA and 47/78 K/BB ratio in A-ball.  Then he moved to bullpen where he excel at it.

    I know there is a rumor that Boston may have talked to him to be a starter. But the problem is that he is 26 years old, and he have not be a starting pitcher in 4 years.  So it will take him alot of time to adjusting himself from being a bullpen pitcher to a starting pitcher.  Meaning during 2012 season, he may not be able to pitch more than 5 to 6 innings a game in his first 6 to 10 games of the season until he get use to it.  And I am sure in his last two months of the season, Boston is more likely going to monitor him whether he can continue for the rest of the season or shut him down like they did to Bucholtz in his first year with Boston or Phil Huges/Joba with the Yankees.

    Not worth trying this experience


     
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    Re: Daniel Bard

    In Response to Re: Daniel Bard:
    [QUOTE]I doubt I'd ever want Bard to start. Past that, closer or setup depends on the cost of everyone else. If they can get Hanrahan cheap, I'd make him the closer, and Bard setup. If they can't trade for Hanrahan, then I'd have to weigh the $10M for Bell or madson, against the cost of obtaining 2 SPs. If I can get two SPs, I won't care whether Bard or an outsider close. But if I did get Hanrahan, and I could flip Youk for Floyd, then maybe I revert back to Aceves as setup and flip Bard for Headley. You kind of need a chart to see and in what order you'd need to do them in.  The beauty of Bard is that he retains a lot of value as starter or setup.  And therefore probably the last decision I make. But ultimately, the decision on Bard will be the same decision I always told you about with Joba.  Once the NYY re-signed Mo, they had to trade Joba.  Not because he wasn't any good, but because he was good.  Someone out there would've looked at Joba, at some point, as a top-10 closer, and would've paid more for him than he was worth to the NYY as a setup guy.  If we bring in a closer, I think we need to see how much we can get for Bard.  They'll be teams out there looking for a minimum wage closer, and will pay.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    It is an interesting though - making Bard available in a trade.  It would be smarter to sign relief pitchers than starters in this market.  And Bard, unlike Reddick, will actually garner some reasonable interest.  And with all these free agent closers available, tjat means there are plenty of teams that will need to fill the role, and would probably like to do so for less than free agent cost....
     

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