Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    The numbers don't lie. He did nothing in the ALCS. The Red Sox won in spite of him.

    Check the numbers yourself. Daniel Nava should be playing against righties because Gomes will be needed when a lefty is brought in out of the bullpen.


    Check the numbers. No RBIs and an incredibly low OPS.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to ADG's comment:

    The numbers don't lie. He did nothing in the ALCS. The Red Sox won in spite of him.

    Check the numbers yourself. Daniel Nava should be playing against righties because Gomes will be needed when a lefty is brought in out of the bullpen.


    Check the numbers. No RBIs and an incredibly low OPS.



    The team in the WS 

    can we at least wait until a lineup is posted before second guessing the manager.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    Nava:

    1) The ALCS sample size for Nava is just 7 PAs. He has a .333 BA and 429 OBP (.762 OPS)

    2) Nava had an OBP of .411 this season vs RHPs in a decent sample size.

    3) Nava has a career .390 OBP vs righties and an .833 OPS.

     

    Gomes:

    1) Gomes had 16 PAs in the ALCS, despite every starter being a righty. He has a .188 BA and a .188 OBP (.438 OPS)

    2) Against lefties in 2013, Jonny batted .258 with an OBP of .341 (.745 OPS).

    3) Gomes has a career .225 BA and .310 OBP vs RHPs with an OPS of .733.

     

    Neither is a great fielder.

    I get the energy Gomes brings to the clubhouse and dugout, but just because Nava is not all fired up 24/7, does not mean he isn't the better choice to help our team win. I'm not putting down Farrell. We have won all 6 games the Gomes started, but there certainly is a good case (on paper) for backing Nava as the starter vs righties. There certainly should be a feeling that Nava is being snubbed through no fault of his own.

    ADG's point that Gomes coming off the bench to face a lefty holds a lot of weight. He has been a fantastic PH'er this year, so starting Nava vs RH'd starters and using Gomes vs a lefty reliever seems to give us the best of both worlds.

    (FYI: Gomes has a 1.405 OPS as a PH'er this year with 4 HRs in 21 ABs.)

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    Damn that Farrell -- putting out lineups all year in the playoffs that got the Red Sox into the World Series. The nerve of him.

    Fire the bum.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to Chicagofire's comment:

    A good topic for debate for sure but Farrell is going with his hunch and that is Gomes.  But carry on anyway and pretend that you are the manager.




    By your warped & controling standards, we would literally have nothing to debate on this site.  Dude!  You seriously need some help.  Go to controlfreaksanonymous.com!  PLEASE!

    Great topic for debate, and I find myself hedging.  I've been one of Nava's biggest supporters on this site.  He has had a season for the ages!  This kid has been solid all year long, and prehaps our must unsung hero in this incredible season.  Look at the number!  He's been a team leader all year long with respect to almost every production catagory, & played a very solid LF.

    On the other hand, Gomes does seem to bring an intangible spark, & definitive POP!  No doubt the numbers would dictate that he has EARNED playing against righties!  Without question.  Gomes should be brought in in the late innings, as he does a hell of a job off the bench.

    TOUGH CALL!  The guys do seem to rally around Gomes though?????  Very tough call!  I do feel badly for Nava!  NOBODY has done more to earn a spot in the lineup!  NOBODY!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    It possible to win a series despite a manager making a mistake or two.

    I'm not bashing Farrell. He's a big reason we are where we are, but that doesn't mean there should never be any discussion about any specific decision he made or will make.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    thats dumber than my normal thread idea

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    wait! wait! I love Nava, but u r really dumb

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    Out of 146 MLB hitters who qulaified with enough PAs vs RHPs, Nava had the 7th best OBP at .411. Only Votto, Choo, Ortiz, Trout, Cabrera and C Davis did better.

    He got on base vs RHPs better than...

    Carpenter, Cano, Mauer, Goldschmidt, Cuddyer, McCutchen and many many more.

    Can anyone imagine those guys being benched?

    If you expand the sample size to 294 hitters with 200+ PAs vs RHPs, Nava still places 7th.

     

    Small sample size you might say?

    How's this: from 2011-2013 there are 317 MLB hitters with 500+ PAs vs RHPs:

    Nava places tied for 9th with a .391 OBP.  Better than Bautista, Cano, VMart, CGon, Braun, and hundreds more.

    His .860 OPS over the past 3 years combined places him 30th out of 317. That's a top 10% offensive player in MLb vs righties.

    Gomes has been traditionally pretty awful vs RHPs. He places 215th in OPS vs RHPs out of 317 at .696.

    The OPS differential is .164 in sample sizes greater than 575 PAs for both Nava and Gomes.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    The sox won despite the entire offense.....look at the numbers, almost everyone is below .200

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to Chicagofire's comment:

    A good topic for debate for sure but Farrell is going with his hunch and that is Gomes.  But carry on anyway and pretend that you are the manager.



    didn't not double check but I'm thinking

    save all your superstats

     

    2013 play offs

    sox with gomes 7-0

    without            0-3

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to Chicagofire's comment:

    A good topic for debate for sure but Farrell is going with his hunch and that is Gomes.  But carry on anyway and pretend that you are the manager.



    didn't not double check but I'm thinking

    save all your superstats

     

    2013 play offs

    sox with gomes 7-0

    without            0-3

     


    I know what you're saying, but sometimes I think we give people too much credit.   These wins might be due to Gomes being in the lineup, or they might be due to the fact that my Aunt Edith was at every game they won and wasn't there at the games they lost. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

     

     

    2013 play offs

    sox with gomes 7-0

    without            0-3

     


    I know what you're saying, but sometimes I think we give people too much credit.   These wins might be due to Gomes being in the lineup, or they might be due to the fact that my Aunt Edith was at every game they won and wasn't there at the games they lost. 



    no doubt S5

    as a rule I think supersitions are pretty lame

    but hey he's your lucky charm

    I'd ride em

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to Chicagofire's comment:

    A good topic for debate for sure but Farrell is going with his hunch and that is Gomes.  But carry on anyway and pretend that you are the manager.




    By your warped & controling standards, we would literally have nothing to debate on this site.  Dude!  You seriously need some help.  Go to controlfreaksanonymous.com!  PLEASE!

    Great topic for debate, and I find myself hedging.  I've been one of Nava's biggest supporters on this site.  He has had a season for the ages!  This kid has been solid all year long, and prehaps our must unsung hero in this incredible season.  Look at the number!  He's been a team leader all year long with respect to almost every production catagory, & played a very solid LF.

    On the other hand, Gomes does seem to bring an intangible spark, & definitive POP!  No doubt the numbers would dictate that he has EARNED playing against righties!  Without question.  Gomes should be brought in in the late innings, as he does a hell of a job off the bench.

    TOUGH CALL!  The guys do seem to rally around Gomes though?????  Very tough call!  I do feel badly for Nava!  NOBODY has done more to earn a spot in the lineup!  NOBODY!




     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production


    I completely disagree! When is the last time Nava had a decisive hit? I think June. I would cut him, he's useless!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sobchack. Show Sobchack's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    A small sample size.  if Victorino didn't hit the GS, his numbers would look just as bad.  Nava has had a great season.  Next to Koji, I'd say he's been the biggest surprise. 

    When this series goes to STL, the bench looks great: Nava, Carp, Ross (hot lately), WMB (incentive to produce).......and, uh, well, Napoli/Ortiz? That's more than half an MLB starting caliber lineup in and of itself.  

    Me likey VERY much.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    Here's a great quote from Nava:

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/clubhouse_insider/2013/10/jonny_gomes_likely_to_start_over_daniel_nava_again_in

    "I don't think it's a bad thing. If anything, it's a problem that's good to have," Nava said. "It's like when you're looking at ice cream -- what's your favorite ice cream? I've got two flavors. Is it bad I love both these flavors this much? Now, we are not ice cream, but the same thing -- neither of them are bad. If they put me in, either way, we've got a good chance to help the team win. Skip came up to me and said, 'Hey, man, just wanted to let you know I've still got you, yada yada,' and I said, 'If you want to put (Gomes) in there, that's great. If you want to put me in there, that's great.' We just want to win the World Series."  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to mrmojo1120's comment:

    Here's a great quote from Nava:

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/clubhouse_insider/2013/10/jonny_gomes_likely_to_start_over_daniel_nava_again_in

    "I don't think it's a bad thing. If anything, it's a problem that's good to have," Nava said. "It's like when you're looking at ice cream -- what's your favorite ice cream? I've got two flavors. Is it bad I love both these flavors this much? Now, we are not ice cream, but the same thing -- neither of them are bad. If they put me in, either way, we've got a good chance to help the team win. Skip came up to me and said, 'Hey, man, just wanted to let you know I've still got you, yada yada,' and I said, 'If you want to put (Gomes) in there, that's great. If you want to put me in there, that's great.' We just want to win the World Series."  



    Nava's a team guy and knows that it's not the time or the place to chirp in the press about playing time. trust me he wants to play and knows that in the big picture there's little to gain from being honest and telling the truth...Which is that he wants to play and has to be disappointed that he's not, or at least I would hope he is.

    Bottom line is he's playing on a team with a chance to win it all and given where he's come from and the road he traveled to get here. He has to be pinching himself everynight before he goes to bed to make sure that he's not dreaming. His job now appears to be another lefthanded pinch hitter and with that he has to stay sharp take his cuts in BP and be ready when his number is called...

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    Farrell is not going to change this lineup until it fails him.  Nava gets it and so does Middlebrooks.

    In any event, the bench will at least see action in St Louis because of the always thrilling pitching moves

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    Throw your stats out, the Sox are winning and are not going to rock that boat just yet. Gomes is in.

    Nava is a big boy and although we know he wants to be in there, this is the way it goes sometimes. Hes a pro and certaily wont stir the pot. Hey, its Better than playing in the independent league.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    The sox won despite the entire offense.....look at the numbers, almost everyone is below .200




    Right, but maybe they would have won more easily. Think of that.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Nava:

    1) The ALCS sample size for Nava is just 7 PAs. He has a .333 BA and 429 OBP (.762 OPS)

    2) Nava had an OBP of .411 this season vs RHPs in a decent sample size.

    3) Nava has a career .390 OBP vs righties and an .833 OPS.

     

    Gomes:

    1) Gomes had 16 PAs in the ALCS, despite every starter being a righty. He has a .188 BA and a .188 OBP (.438 OPS)

    2) Against lefties in 2013, Jonny batted .258 with an OBP of .341 (.745 OPS).

    3) Gomes has a career .225 BA and .310 OBP vs RHPs with an OPS of .733.

     

    Neither is a great fielder.

    I get the energy Gomes brings to the clubhouse and dugout, but just because Nava is not all fired up 24/7, does not mean he isn't the better choice to help our team win. I'm not putting down Farrell. We have won all 6 games the Gomes started, but there certainly is a good case (on paper) for backing Nava as the starter vs righties. There certainly should be a feeling that Nava is being snubbed through no fault of his own.

    ADG's point that Gomes coming off the bench to face a lefty holds a lot of weight. He has been a fantastic PH'er this year, so starting Nava vs RH'd starters and using Gomes vs a lefty reliever seems to give us the best of both worlds.

    (FYI: Gomes has a 1.405 OPS as a PH'er this year with 4 HRs in 21 ABs.)

     

     




    Thank you moon. Everyone is saying they won anyway, yes that's true. But who's to say if Nava plays the Red Sox don't score more runs and maybe they would have won in 5. It just makes logical sense. If Gomes was hitting, okay, but he hasn't provided anything.

    With a righty starter, start the lefty who has produced. Nava got you there. Give him some AB's. It's unfair to him.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    Got a news flash for you, ADG.

    Life isn't fair.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to ADG's comment:

    The numbers don't lie. He did nothing in the ALCS. The Red Sox won in spite of him.

    Check the numbers yourself. Daniel Nava should be playing against righties because Gomes will be needed when a lefty is brought in out of the bullpen.


    Check the numbers. No RBIs and an incredibly low OPS.

    Can't play all 25 at once, this isnot T-BALL.......  I have confidence that  J F will know how to use each player !!!!!


     
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