David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    It likely comes down to a choice between Papi and Youk.  If Papi repeats his 2011 performance, it's a very tough call.  The thing working in favor of making the offer to Papi is the new arb process for FA's, under which the arb offer should be around $12.5M, which would represent a pay cut of over $2M.  Picking up Youk's option would be a net $12M cap hit.  Of course, the Sox could always go cheap at DH and pencil Lava in there and as a backup catcher if they don't think he can catch everyday still.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    In Response to Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot:
    This thread makes it sound like Ortiz cannot play the filed at all. He's actually not a bad 1B. No range it's true, but in a pinch he can get the job done. Granted, he won't be playing any 1B as long as Agon and Youk are healthy, but he could spot him once in a while for rest. 1B is not as critical for defense.
    Posted by Alibiike


    Is that based on the 2 games he played first in 2011?  The 4 he played there in 2010?  He's played 6 times there in nearly 3 years, 37 on his next birthday, perhaps there's a reason the Sox are so reluctant to play him in the field?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    Does anybody have any hope for Lars Anderson in the DH role?  While his power has never really manifested, his plate discipline is still terrific, and he is still only 24 years old.  Even if his power never comes around, he could be a perennial .380 OBP guy in the majors, and with this lineup, that could mean a lot of runs.  


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    At some point he is going to drop off, it could be this year, it could be 3 years from now....but father of time catches all.  I'd agree with the poster(s) who said we should go year to year with him at this point.  The future of the DH position I think will also shift, to give teams more flexibility
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    Lars is as one dimensional as Ortiz and he's blocked at 1 B--and can't play anyplace else.

    As we go further into ST and teams get down to 25 man rosters--Lars, Bowden, DMac, Tejada and other Sox members of the 40 man roster will be released and others signed.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    In Response to Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot:
    In Response to  Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot : I think his numbers will decline, but not much.  I just dont see him getting a two year deal after this season from any team.  Especially not the price he wants which is 12-14 a season.  Posted by moonslav59 Sorry to shorten your post.  Just want to add that Ortiz is going to face a harsh reality after this year.  I think its safe to say that it was a mistake offering Ortiz arbitration.  We wound up paying him 2x market value because of it. We dont make that mistake next year.  Next year it will be the market and not an arbitrar that sets his price tag.  It really doesnt matter what he wants.  The market is VERY unfriendly to aging DH's. I think that if he bats .280 with 25 homeruns, the Sox resign him for either 1 yr 8 million or 2 yrs 13 million.  Im fine with that. He may choose to retire though. You do know I didn't write what you pasted from my post, right? That was part of the post I was responding to. I totally agree the arb offer was a mistake, but I understand why they did it.  I totally agree that he will not be offered arb next year, even if he hit 50 HRs. He will walk, retire, or settle for much less for whatever team offers him the most, which could be us. I think tomnev's point makes more sense. If Youk has a good year, gets a chance to DH a little this year, and agrees to DH for us in years to come, I'd say offer him a 3 year deal ($24M) instead of the $13M option for 2013. He may not take it, but it would lessen our 2013 cap number and give us a DH who can play 2 positions. This year may help us get a better overall picture of 2013. Alot can change before then and now, but I think we will have more flexibility next winter, but I'm not giving up on this year at all.
    Posted by moonslav59


    Not sure I agree that they won't offer arbitration regardless of what he does this year. If he hits he'll get paid, it he doesn't he won't.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccfss. Show ccfss's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    comes a time when you have to go and (from a teams perspective) that is usually too early rather than too late.  With Ortiz, the "too" is out the door given his age.  Every contract with a player in his situation is a roll of the dice where the team hopes that professional lreality doesn't catch up with him.  They have plenty of "bats" available, some, like Youk if he's still here, capable of realistically playing the field.  By any common sense standard, this has got to be it with Ortiz.  Hope it ends well for all concerned
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    In Response to Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot:
    In Response to  Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot : I think his numbers will decline, but not much.  I just dont see him getting a two year deal after this season from any team.  Especially not the price he wants which is 12-14 a season.  Posted by moonslav59 Sorry to shorten your post.  Just want to add that Ortiz is going to face a harsh reality after this year.  I think its safe to say that it was a mistake offering Ortiz arbitration.  We wound up paying him 2x market value because of it. We dont make that mistake next year.  Next year it will be the market and not an arbitrar that sets his price tag.  It really doesnt matter what he wants.  The market is VERY unfriendly to aging DH's. I think that if he bats .280 with 25 homeruns, the Sox resign him for either 1 yr 8 million or 2 yrs 13 million.  Im fine with that. He may choose to retire though. You do know I didn't write what you pasted from my post, right? That was part of the post I was responding to. I totally agree the arb offer was a mistake, but I understand why they did it.  I totally agree that he will not be offered arb next year, even if he hit 50 HRs. He will walk, retire, or settle for much less for whatever team offers him the most, which could be us. I think tomnev's point makes more sense. If Youk has a good year, gets a chance to DH a little this year, and agrees to DH for us in years to come, I'd say offer him a 3 year deal ($24M) instead of the $13M option for 2013. He may not take it, but it would lessen our 2013 cap number and give us a DH who can play 2 positions. This year may help us get a better overall picture of 2013. Alot can change before then and now, but I think we will have more flexibility next winter, but I'm not giving up on this year at all.
    Posted by moonslav59

    Agreed.  Good post.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    In Response to Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot:
    Lars is as one dimensional as Ortiz and he's blocked at 1 B--and can't play anyplace else. As we go further into ST and teams get down to 25 man rosters--Lars, Bowden, DMac, Tejada and other Sox members of the 40 man roster will be released and others signed.
    Posted by MadMc44


    I wouldn't say Lars is as one-dimensional as Ortiz, because he is a viable 1B option if Gonzalez gets hurt or is pinch-run for late in games.  Also, he's young enough that if he were to excel with the bat, he could be converted to the OF.  
    He and Tejeda have options left, so they won't be released, and Bowden was terrific in relief at Pawtucket last year - I don't see the Sox just throwing him away.  DMac may be around all season too - if Aviles is the starting SS, we're going to need a couple of RH bats off the bench, and right now that's Ross and DMac.  Iglesias is probably the biggest threat to DMac - if he can fight for the starting SS job, that makes Aviles available to fill DMac's role.




     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    Not sure I agree that they won't offer arbitration regardless of what he does this year. If he hits he'll get paid, it he doesn't he won't.

    I'd say the there's close to zero chance they offer Papi arb next season regardless of what he does this year. They make a respectable offer, but my guess is they will startegically make it just below what someone else will offer.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    Wakefield was unable to play any position but that didn't stop him from getting mascot contracts.

    That said, Ortiz is the wrong color for Boston mascot contracts. Even if Ortiz has around a 30 HR and 100 RBI production year, I do not see Cherry offering arbitration again. Any contract offer will be one year and so low that Ortiz will either find another team for a higher one year contract or, if he doesn't produce that will in 2012, he will be forced to retire as he is not one of the Red Sox members of the "whites only charity contract club".
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    The race card.....really.  Ortiz will not be offered arb because its a smart baseball move not his color.  Still can't believe I read that.  Players that can only DH will die out,  the only exception will be players like Pulhols (sp), Fielder etc...that have these stupid large and long contracts.  Moon is spot on, IMO, and I think the RS will maintain multiple options for DH and not a single player taking up the roster strictly for that purpose.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    Not sure I agree that they won't offer arbitration regardless of what he does this year. If he hits he'll get paid, it he doesn't he won't.

    He hit last year, and I am sure the Sox are considering this year's arb offer a mistake. He's not worth $15M. If he hits well this year, he still won't be worth the same of more next year. If he hits poorly, and arb ruling would probably not cut his pay much, if at all... and he'd still be overpaid. 

    The Sox learned a lesson. They will let him test the market, and if they want him back, they will outbid everyone (and I am sure it will be for less than $15M, even if Papi hits 50 Hrs this year). If we don't want him, Ben will offer just slightly less than the highest offer to make it look like he wanted the hero back.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot

    In Response to Re: David Ortiz and the future at DH spot:
    The race card.....really.  Ortiz will not be offered arb because its a smart baseball move not his color.  Still can't believe I read that.  Players that can only DH will die out,  the only exception will be players like Pulhols (sp), Fielder etc...that have these stupid large and long contracts.  Moon is spot on, IMO, and I think the RS will maintain multiple options for DH and not a single player taking up the roster strictly for that purpose.  
    Posted by never1954

    Racists are usually the first to play the "race card".

     
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