David Ortiz ; "Nobody has offered clarification regarding 2003 "list"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

    But if Ortiz was dirty in 2003, what are the chances that he is naturally at least as good a decade later?  And if he has been dirty ever since, where are the other 37-year-olds on the list exceeding their numbers from a decade earlier?  So either Ortiz was clean in 2003, and is enjoying a nice year for an aging superstar in a relatively clean game, or he is a Dominican Genius and the only cheater to figure out how to beat the system for more than a decade.  Do you give the latter scenario better than an 8% chance?

     

     




     

     

    wasn't talkin so much about today but

    do you really think the drugs haven't progressed and become less detectable over the yrs

     

    only ? most of these guys busted this week never failed a test

     

    come on slomag if you're going to play

    let's be reasonable

    With random blood tests, and the players behind cleaning up the game, I think it's going to be incredibly difficult to get away with anything.   Blood testing began this year, and the investigation goes back to 2010, so some of these guys might have gotten lucky with the timing of their cycle / testing.  Some of these guys have probably stopped juicing to avoid detection.  

    League OPS is 70 points lower today than it was in 2000.  The guys I suspected a couple of years ago have either been caught or fallen to earth.  Yeah, I think the game is pretty clean.  

    Is there anybody besides Ortiz you look at right now and think he's juicing?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Do you think that Giambi has ever stopped?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;


    Cano because of his closeness to melky and Arod, plus the DR connection wouldn't shock me.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    I'm suspicious of Chris Davis.

    Look at his career in the minors.

    It certainly looks like future scandals like Balco or Biogenesis were are actually more likely to expose cheats then the MLB testing programs.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to slomag's comment:

    With random blood tests, and the players behind cleaning up the game, I think it's going to be incredibly difficult to get away with anything.   Blood testing began this year, and the investigation goes back to 2010, so some of these guys might have gotten lucky with the timing of their cycle / testing.  Some of these guys have probably stopped juicing to avoid detection.  

     

     that's all fine & well but it doesn't really support what you said about ortiz

    being  the only one not caught, right?

     

    League OPS is 70 points lower today than it was in 2000.  The guys I suspected a couple of years ago have either been caught or fallen to earth.  Yeah, I think the game is pretty clean.

    Is there anybody besides Ortiz you look at right now and think he's juicing?

     

    U mean other than cano ?

    I'm one of those who always thinks the % of users is higher than most

    and at the same time it bothers me a lot less than most

     




     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    Do you think Balco and Biogenesis are the only two stores in operation?

    13 were served suspensions this week none failed the MLB tests.

    Of the total 15 named in Biogenesis only Melky and Colon were caught by the MLB test.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    With random blood tests, and the players behind cleaning up the game, I think it's going to be incredibly difficult to get away with anything.   Blood testing began this year, and the investigation goes back to 2010, so some of these guys might have gotten lucky with the timing of their cycle / testing.  Some of these guys have probably stopped juicing to avoid detection.  

     

     that's all fine & well but it doesn't really support what you said about ortiz

    being  the only one not caught, right?

     

    League OPS is 70 points lower today than it was in 2000.  The guys I suspected a couple of years ago have either been caught or fallen to earth.  Yeah, I think the game is pretty clean.

    Is there anybody besides Ortiz you look at right now and think he's juicing?

     

    U mean other than cano ?

    I'm one of those who always thinks the % of users is higher than most

    and at the same time it bothers me a lot less than most

     






    Sure it does - there are players you suspect who have been caught.  There are players you suspect who have stopped using and their numbers have dropped (isn't that one of the reasons you're looking at Cano?).  But is there anybody you suspect of cheating who is excelling in this, the first year of random blood testing?  Anybody you suspect of cheating for more than a decade, who has never been caught?

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    Do you think Balco and Biogenesis are the only two stores in operation?

    13 were served suspensions this week none failed the MLB tests.

    Of the total 15 named in Biogenesis only Melky and Colon were caught by the MLB test.



    Six of those guys never made it to the majors and were not subject to the policy.  Of the nine who did, three tested positive (Colon and the Cabreras), and one tested positive but got off on a technicality (Braun).  

    Bastardo probably stopped, given his performance drop.

    A-Rod played his first game a few days ago, and Cervelli was only on the field for a couple of weeks - do they test guys on the DL?

    It was really just Peralta and Cruz who seemed to be getting away with it.  

     

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

    With random blood tests, and the players behind cleaning up the game, I think it's going to be incredibly difficult to get away with anything.   Blood testing began this year, and the investigation goes back to 2010, so some of these guys might have gotten lucky with the timing of their cycle / testing.  Some of these guys have probably stopped juicing to avoid detection.  

     

     that's all fine & well but it doesn't really support what you said about ortiz

    being  the only one not caught, right?

     

    League OPS is 70 points lower today than it was in 2000.  The guys I suspected a couple of years ago have either been caught or fallen to earth.  Yeah, I think the game is pretty clean.

    Is there anybody besides Ortiz you look at right now and think he's juicing?

     

    U mean other than cano ?

    I'm one of those who always thinks the % of users is higher than most

    and at the same time it bothers me a lot less than most

     




     



    Sure it does - there are players you suspect who have been caught.  There are players you suspect who have stopped using and their numbers have dropped (isn't that one of the reasons you're looking at Cano?).  But is there anybody you suspect of cheating who is excelling in this, the first year of random blood testing?  Anybody you suspect of cheating for more than a decade, who has never been caught?

     

     




    Based on your rule of thumb to throw out the results of the 2003 test and has not failed a test since=Arod.

    Gee you have a convincing argument.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    Do you think Balco and Biogenesis are the only two stores in operation?

    13 were served suspensions this week none failed the MLB tests.

    Of the total 15 named in Biogenesis only Melky and Colon were caught by the MLB test.

     



    Six of those guys never made it to the majors and were not subject to the policy.  Of the nine who did, three tested positive (Colon and the Cabreras), and one tested positive but got off on a technicality (Braun).  

     

    Bastardo probably stopped, given his performance drop.

    A-Rod played his first game a few days ago, and Cervelli was only on the field for a couple of weeks - do they test guys on the DL?

    It was really just Peralta and Cruz who seemed to be getting away with it.  

     

     

     




    Arod has been playing as long as Ortiz and they both have only failed the 2003 test.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to slomag's comment:

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

    With random blood tests, and the players behind cleaning up the game, I think it's going to be incredibly difficult to get away with anything.   Blood testing began this year, and the investigation goes back to 2010, so some of these guys might have gotten lucky with the timing of their cycle / testing.  Some of these guys have probably stopped juicing to avoid detection.  

     

     that's all fine & well but it doesn't really support what you said about ortiz

    being  the only one not caught, right?

     

    League OPS is 70 points lower today than it was in 2000.  The guys I suspected a couple of years ago have either been caught or fallen to earth.  Yeah, I think the game is pretty clean.

    Is there anybody besides Ortiz you look at right now and think he's juicing?

     

    U mean other than cano ?

    I'm one of those who always thinks the % of users is higher than most

    and at the same time it bothers me a lot less than most

     




     



    Sure it does - there are players you suspect who have been caught.  There are players you suspect who have stopped using and their numbers have dropped (isn't that one of the reasons you're looking at Cano?). 

     

      Anybody you suspect of cheating for more than a decade, who has never been caught?

     

     




    "But is there anybody you suspect of cheating who is excelling in this, the first year of random blood testing?"

    Ortiz to name just one. You asked.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    Do you think Balco and Biogenesis are the only two stores in operation?

    13 were served suspensions this week none failed the MLB tests.

    Of the total 15 named in Biogenesis only Melky and Colon were caught by the MLB test.

     



    Six of those guys never made it to the majors and were not subject to the policy.  Of the nine who did, three tested positive (Colon and the Cabreras), and one tested positive but got off on a technicality (Braun).  

     

    Bastardo probably stopped, given his performance drop.

    A-Rod played his first game a few days ago, and Cervelli was only on the field for a couple of weeks - do they test guys on the DL?

    It was really just Peralta and Cruz who seemed to be getting away with it.  

     

     

     

     




     

    Arod has been playing as long as Ortiz and they both have only failed the 2003 test.

    [/QUOTE]

    But A-Rod got caught, and that despite missing the first year of random blood testing.

    A-Rod's also been in serious decline the last five years - does that mean what he can get away with (or thought he could) in 2013 is not as effective as the drugs used a decade ago?  Or were his injuries just too much to overcome regardless of the drugs he was taking? 

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

    With random blood tests, and the players behind cleaning up the game, I think it's going to be incredibly difficult to get away with anything.   Blood testing began this year, and the investigation goes back to 2010, so some of these guys might have gotten lucky with the timing of their cycle / testing.  Some of these guys have probably stopped juicing to avoid detection.  

     

     that's all fine & well but it doesn't really support what you said about ortiz

    being  the only one not caught, right?

     

    League OPS is 70 points lower today than it was in 2000.  The guys I suspected a couple of years ago have either been caught or fallen to earth.  Yeah, I think the game is pretty clean.

    Is there anybody besides Ortiz you look at right now and think he's juicing?

     

    U mean other than cano ?

    I'm one of those who always thinks the % of users is higher than most

    and at the same time it bothers me a lot less than most

     




     



    Sure it does - there are players you suspect who have been caught.  There are players you suspect who have stopped using and their numbers have dropped (isn't that one of the reasons you're looking at Cano?). 

     

      Anybody you suspect of cheating for more than a decade, who has never been caught?

     

     

     




     

    "But is there anybody you suspect of cheating who is excelling in this, the first year of random blood testing?"

    Ortiz to name just one. You asked.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, you named one.  

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     


    I wonder how much shelf life my posts have, maybe 5 minutes before I'm scrubbed.

     



    My only question is, what took you so long? 

     

     




     

    If it makes you feel any better I'm not getting much love on the Yankee sites either where I'm pounding Arod.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hang out with us for a while, you know we luv ya Wink

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    A decade ago, my ex accused me of cheating.  I told her that I was clean (innocent).  She still banned me for life (broke-up).  She did not give me a chance to appeal my innocence.   Frown

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    Do you think Balco and Biogenesis are the only two stores in operation?

    13 were served suspensions this week none failed the MLB tests.

    Of the total 15 named in Biogenesis only Melky and Colon were caught by the MLB test.

     



    Six of those guys never made it to the majors and were not subject to the policy.  Of the nine who did, three tested positive (Colon and the Cabreras), and one tested positive but got off on a technicality (Braun).  

     

    Bastardo probably stopped, given his performance drop.

    A-Rod played his first game a few days ago, and Cervelli was only on the field for a couple of weeks - do they test guys on the DL?

    It was really just Peralta and Cruz who seemed to be getting away with it.  

     

     

     

     

     

     




     

     

     

    Arod has been playing as long as Ortiz and they both have only failed the 2003 test.

     



     

     

    But A-Rod got caught, and that despite missing the first year of random blood testing.

    A-Rod's also been in serious decline the last five years - does that mean what he can get away with (or thought he could) in 2013 is not as effective as the drugs used a decade ago?  Or were his injuries just too much to overcome regardless of the drugs he was taking? 

     


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Arod was not caught by MLB.

    The Biogenesis story came to light because a former employee gave records to the Miami media, Arod's association goes back a few years.

    If this individual did not come forward Arod, Braun the others would not have been outed.

    The same can happen to any of the folks who are currently using.

    Balco was blown up much the same way.

    I think all of these cheats will be exposed in time. As there is a paper trail of some sort left behind.

    A foot note, isn't it remarkable that with blood testing that guys are still using illegal PEDS and still testing undetected??

    And it isn't a matter of luck. They use sophisticated masking drugs.

    Do you think Braun would risk what he did if he thought that he would fail a 2nd test??

     

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

     

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     


    I wonder how much shelf life my posts have, maybe 5 minutes before I'm scrubbed.

     



    My only question is, what took you so long? 

     

     

     

     




     

     

     

    If it makes you feel any better I'm not getting much love on the Yankee sites either where I'm pounding Arod.

     

     



    Hang out with us for a while, you know we luv ya Wink

     

     



    67

     

    Tougher on that site.

    There are more Yankee fans who defend Arod then do not.

    I was a Yankee fan long before all these cheats wore pinstripes and will still be one long after they're gone.

    The only problem I have with Arod is that he wears our uniform.

    His cheating, dishonesty, influence on the young players obstructing this investigation do not bother me him being on my team bothers me.

    They should  pay him off, DFA him and then get him out of town.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to jackbu's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

    Since they let someone "leak" this information and papi wants to know, then I think its their obligation to let Papi and everyone know what it was that he took to cause a positive result.

    By Papi wanting them to tell him, Im almost believing he didnt take anything serious because he has to know that people will find out what it was. If he knew he took something, Id guess he would let it be and not mention that.

    I know thats the unpopular opinion nowadays, but no matter who it is, I stick with innocent until proven guilty. There were supplements that made you test positive back then that werent on the banned list yet. If they came out and had proof that papi took something more than a supplement you can get at GNC, then of course hes a cheat. Until then.....

     

     



    Ok, his then trainer has only been banned by mlb from being on any mlb field or dugout.  He was caught with roids but let us all believe David did not take anything serious.  Take a look at him then and now. 

     

     




    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    All the players who failed the test in 2003 were not given the results, they were just notified that they failed.

    For example Sammy Sosa failed the same 2003 MLB adminstered test that David ortiz did and he wasn't told his results either.

    The only reason they know what Arod took is because he told them.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Since they let someone "leak" this information and papi wants to know, then I think its their obligation to let Papi and everyone know what it was that he took to cause a positive result.

    By Papi wanting them to tell him, Im almost believing he didnt take anything serious because he has to know that people will find out what it was. If he knew he took something, Id guess he would let it be and not mention that.

    I know thats the unpopular opinion nowadays, but no matter who it is, I stick with innocent until proven guilty. There were supplements that made you test positive back then that werent on the banned list yet. If they came out and had proof that papi took something more than a supplement you can get at GNC, then of course hes a cheat. Until then.....

     



    Ok, his then trainer has only been banned by mlb from being on any mlb field or dugout.  He was caught with roids but let us all believe David did not take anything serious.  Take a look at him then and now. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I didnt say there wasnt suspicion. I said if they can provide proof (what the substance was) then I could make a decision based on valid proof. I do this with every player regardless of what laundry he wears. Right now only David and those that have access to the results know. Your saying hes guilty solely on association. Im saying show me the proof before I prematurely go accusing someone of taking steroids. I see no problem with that.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;


    Sammy Sosa (from the DR btw) only failed the MLB 2003 test the same test Arod, Papi and Manny did.

    Does he get the benefit of the doubt?

    Sosa denied ever using performance enhancing drugs.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;


    Sosa hit 66, 64 and 63 homeruns in three different seasons.

    Failed the 2003 test and wasn't given the results, I suppose he was clean too.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

     

    In response to slomag's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

     

    Do you think Balco and Biogenesis are the only two stores in operation?

    13 were served suspensions this week none failed the MLB tests.

    Of the total 15 named in Biogenesis only Melky and Colon were caught by the MLB test.

     



    Six of those guys never made it to the majors and were not subject to the policy.  Of the nine who did, three tested positive (Colon and the Cabreras), and one tested positive but got off on a technicality (Braun).  

     

    Bastardo probably stopped, given his performance drop.

    A-Rod played his first game a few days ago, and Cervelli was only on the field for a couple of weeks - do they test guys on the DL?

    It was really just Peralta and Cruz who seemed to be getting away with it.  

     

     

     

     

     

     




     

     

     

    Arod has been playing as long as Ortiz and they both have only failed the 2003 test.

     



     

     

    But A-Rod got caught, and that despite missing the first year of random blood testing.

    A-Rod's also been in serious decline the last five years - does that mean what he can get away with (or thought he could) in 2013 is not as effective as the drugs used a decade ago?  Or were his injuries just too much to overcome regardless of the drugs he was taking? 

     


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Arod was not caught by MLB.

    The Biogenesis story came to light because a former employee gave records to the Miami media, Arod's association goes back a few years.

    If this individual did not come forward Arod, Braun the others would not have been outed.

    The same can happen to any of the folks who are currently using.

    Balco was blown up much the same way.

    I think all of these cheats will be exposed in time. As there is a paper trail of some sort left behind.

    A foot note, isn't it remarkable that with blood testing that guys are using and still undetected??

    And it isn't a matter of luck. They use sophisticated masking drugs.

    Do you think Braun would risk what he did if he thought that he would fail a 2nd test??

     



    It doesn't matter how it came to light - it's all a byproduct of cleaning up the game.  If PEDs was no big deal, there would be no extortion or disgruntled employees looking for payback.  If it can destroy careers, and cost millions, then this behavior will be brought to light.

    Look at Braun's numbers this year - 9 HRs in 61 games.  Melky Cabrera has 3 HRs in 88 games.  And these guys aren't aging superstars - these guys are in their primes.  They stopped juicing.  For all we know A-Rod had too.  Let's see what kind of numbers he puts up down the stretch - so far he's got 3 singles in 11 at-bats.  He's the same age as Ortiz, and theoretically they've both been juicing all their careers.  Let's see if the numbers bear that out.

     

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;


    I know this is a tough subject to discuss but actually I think I'm fair.

    I am a homer but my Dad brought me up with tough love I am appreciative to him for the value system he instilled in me.

    For what it's worth I was also suspicious of the power display by Francisco Cervelli.

    Canseco said in 2005 that 85 percent of the players in the game were on juice.

    Maybe not that high, but I think what they use is ever evolving.

    I think if they ever legalized the stuff we would have to have an annual Most Valuable Chemist for the trainer who provides the best juice.

    Of course it would be a terrible idea if not just for the examples set for children.

    And unfair to players who play clean and would have to consider the risk to their health of juicing to keep up.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: David Ortiz ;

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:


    Sosa hit 66, 64 and 63 homeruns in three different seasons.

    Failed the 2003 test and wasn't given the results, I suppose he was clean too.



    Some guys you just had to look at, but Ortiz was never one of those guys. 

     

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