Deadline Deal

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Deadline Deal

    The Sox and Phillies will get together on a dael that sends Crawford (~$113mill), Lavarnway and Cecchini for Cliff Lee (~$99mill minimum) and Hunter Pence (~$5.4mill + 1 year arbitrion at $13/14mill),

    Phillies improve offensively and gets 2 young, cheap and potentially useful players (one close, one far from MLB) and save $4-5mill or so in the process, pending Pence’s arbitration numbers. While Philadelphia does need farm help, their team core they have committed outside of Hamels is still composed largely older players, with Roy Halladay (35), Jimmy Rollins (34), Ryan Howard (33) and Jon Papelbon (32) all on board next year and beyond (except Halladay). They may not want to white flag everything between now and when the farm is rebuilt and productive. (Those 4 Phillies, plus Hamels, combine to make about $90-95mill next season.)

    Sox get a RHH OF with power and an improvement to the pitching staff, both of whom are signed for 2013 and beyond (pending arb for Pence).
     
    Philadelphia gets some desperately needed hitting. They may or may not like Lavarnway, as Ruiz has emerged into a star. Then again, Ruiz is 33 years old. Or, if they remain commited to Ruiz short term, they certainly are free to deal Lavarnway anywhere they see fit (Tampa for Alex Cobb, for example). The Sox can afford to part with Cecchini and Lavarnway if they feel committed to Saltalamacchia and Middlebrooks.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    In Response to Deadline Deal:
    The Sox and Phillies will get together on a dael that sends Crawford (~$113mill), Lavarnway and Cecchini for Cliff Lee (~$99mill minimum) and Hunter Pence (~$5.4mill + 1 year arbitrion at $13/14mill), Phillies improve offensively and gets 2 young, cheap and potentially useful players (one close, one far from MLB) and save $4-5mill or so in the process, pending Pence’s arbitration numbers. While Philadelphia does need farm help, their team core they have committed outside of Hamels is still composed largely older players, with Roy Halladay (35), Jimmy Rollins (34), Ryan Howard (33) and Jon Papelbon (32) all on board next year and beyond (except Halladay). They may not want to white flag everything between now and when the farm is rebuilt and productive. (Those 4 Phillies, plus Hamels, combine to make about $90-95mill next season.) Sox get a RHH OF with power and an improvement to the pitching staff, both of whom are signed for 2013 and beyond (pending arb for Pence).   Philadelphia gets some desperately needed hitting. They may or may not like Lavarnway, as Ruiz has emerged into a star. Then again, Ruiz is 33 years old. Or, if they remain commited to Ruiz short term, they certainly are free to deal Lavarnway anywhere they see fit (Tampa for Alex Cobb, for example). The Sox can afford to part with Cecchini and Lavarnway if they feel committed to Saltalamacchia and Middlebrooks.
    Posted by notin

    I love any deal that gets rid of Crawfords contract. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    In Response to Deadline Deal:
    The Sox and Phillies will get together on a dael that sends Crawford (~$113mill), Lavarnway and Cecchini for Cliff Lee (~$99mill minimum) and Hunter Pence (~$5.4mill + 1 year arbitrion at $13/14mill), Phillies improve offensively and gets 2 young, cheap and potentially useful players (one close, one far from MLB) and save $4-5mill or so in the process, pending Pence’s arbitration numbers. While Philadelphia does need farm help, their team core they have committed outside of Hamels is still composed largely older players, with Roy Halladay (35), Jimmy Rollins (34), Ryan Howard (33) and Jon Papelbon (32) all on board next year and beyond (except Halladay). They may not want to white flag everything between now and when the farm is rebuilt and productive. (Those 4 Phillies, plus Hamels, combine to make about $90-95mill next season.) Sox get a RHH OF with power and an improvement to the pitching staff, both of whom are signed for 2013 and beyond (pending arb for Pence).   Philadelphia gets some desperately needed hitting. They may or may not like Lavarnway, as Ruiz has emerged into a star. Then again, Ruiz is 33 years old. Or, if they remain commited to Ruiz short term, they certainly are free to deal Lavarnway anywhere they see fit (Tampa for Alex Cobb, for example). The Sox can afford to part with Cecchini and Lavarnway if they feel committed to Saltalamacchia and Middlebrooks.
    Posted by notin

    Sounds too good to be true.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dbeach48. Show dbeach48's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    I love any deal that gets rid of Crawfords contract"

    AMEN!

    WEEI saying lots of negative stuff now  about beckett  cc ect..
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    By the way Notin, I know this will make you sad but Duckworth just signed with a team from Japan.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    Lava, Melancon, Ranaudo, and Kalish (replaces Upton in 2013)
    for 
    Shields

    Crawford, Lester, Sweeney, Iggy, and Anderson
    for
    CLee & Pence
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    I like any of those trades ... not sure Philly wants Craw with the upcoming surgery. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    In Response to Deadline Deal:
    The Sox and Phillies will get together on a dael that sends Crawford (~$113mill), Lavarnway and Cecchini for Cliff Lee (~$99mill minimum) and Hunter Pence (~$5.4mill + 1 year arbitrion at $13/14mill), Phillies improve offensively and gets 2 young, cheap and potentially useful players (one close, one far from MLB) and save $4-5mill or so in the process, pending Pence’s arbitration numbers. While Philadelphia does need farm help, their team core they have committed outside of Hamels is still composed largely older players, with Roy Halladay (35), Jimmy Rollins (34), Ryan Howard (33) and Jon Papelbon (32) all on board next year and beyond (except Halladay). They may not want to white flag everything between now and when the farm is rebuilt and productive. (Those 4 Phillies, plus Hamels, combine to make about $90-95mill next season.) Sox get a RHH OF with power and an improvement to the pitching staff, both of whom are signed for 2013 and beyond (pending arb for Pence).   Philadelphia gets some desperately needed hitting. They may or may not like Lavarnway, as Ruiz has emerged into a star. Then again, Ruiz is 33 years old. Or, if they remain commited to Ruiz short term, they certainly are free to deal Lavarnway anywhere they see fit (Tampa for Alex Cobb, for example). The Sox can afford to part with Cecchini and Lavarnway if they feel committed to Saltalamacchia and Middlebrooks.
    Posted by notin

    This seems lopsided in the Sox favor to me.  Like the concept, but feel like we need to include more to pull this off.

    They should be able to get more than Lava+ cecchini for pence.  And Id rather have lee than craw.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    I'm sure Ed Wade woke up this morning and thought... I wonder how I can get a 22 million dollar .250 hitter who can't play in a big market. Hmmm, where would I find that?

    Not a ridiculous post but don't see this happening.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    In Response to Re: Deadline Deal:
    In Response to Deadline Deal : This seems lopsided in the Sox favor to me.  Like the concept, but feel like we need to include more to pull this off. They should be able to get more than Lava+ cecchini for pence.  And Id rather have lee than craw.
    Posted by Drewski5


    definitely. the sox would make out like bandits in that trade. we would have to give up WAY more. moreso what moon proposed, i like the idea of trading iggy away if it nets us a good pitcher
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal


    I think if you include Ells in place of CC that trade happens. Don't be penneywise and pound foolish--you're losing Ells anyway--do it now. Pence and Lee would look great in Sox uni's not in pinstripes.

    Watch out for the Yankees making a play for Lee. They have wanted him for quite a while. Low ERA--his record could turn around in a hurry if they want him for prospects.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    Boneheaded idea. Trade away our future SS and C for a 33 y/o Lee? I don't think so. If NY can get Ichiro for next to nothing, surely our Ivy League GM can manage to get a decent starter without giving up the farm. Lee would give us maybe 2 years. Not with it. Greinke ought to be the one to get. Trade Pedroia for him.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    In Response to Re: Deadline Deal:
    I'm sure Ed Wade woke up this morning and thought... I wonder how I can get a 22 million dollar .250 hitter who can't play in a big market. Hmmm, where would I find that? Not a ridiculous post but don't see this happening.
    Posted by Wolfpack13


    Of course it won't happen, but its still more realistic than Crawford for Ramrez/Bell...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yaso#7. Show Yaso#7's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    Ed Wade wakes up in the morning wishing he still was a Major League General Manager--- get your facts right.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthomas43. Show mthomas43's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    You think Salty the strike out machine is the catcher of the future?  Bad as Crawfords contract is, I dont care for that deal.  They also they might be able to dump a bad contract or two on the Dodgers.  They will soon be drowning in cash (new TV deal).
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    Pretty good idea, but I don't see Philly doing it.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    I like it notin. Nicely done, I hope it happens.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    I wish Notin's trade was for real.
    I think you'd need to give up much more for Lee and Pence.
    If the Phils trade Victorino, they'd need OF help.
    Maybe this is where you trade Ellsbury?
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    In Response to Re: Deadline Deal:
    This weekend will determine what the Sox will do, on or before the Trade Deadline. Yanks take 2 or sweep, this team will be selling and they will take offers on anyone.
    Posted by bobbysu


    Hopefully they simply decide to gear up for next season.  A complete implosion of the roster, while in demand of the fans and media, would be an awful thing.

    Cafardo and company might demand everyone go, but they like it whn this team is losing.  It gives them more nightly gore to write about.

    Fans might want to see Beckett and Lester bth go, but this is unlikely, and extemely detrimental to this franchise.  The Sox don't haveanyone ready to step into the top of the rotation, so who becomes the #1 and #2 guys?  Matt Barnes?

    The worst thing the Sox could do is push both outthe door for whatever, and then sign a free agent to replace him.  We've seen how well that works, and while harsher critics seem to think these failures were limited to Epstein, the mere act of opening their eyes will show that free agency produces ALL th bad contracts, and very few good ones.  Can anyone name a former free agent who is under contract, and considered untouchable in trade?  There isa very big differenence between "untouchable" and "untradable."

    Let's see how free agency has treated starting pitchers with top of the rotation ability.

    The top deals have gone to CC Sabathia (7 yrs/$161mill), Johan Santana (6/$137.5), Zito (7/$126), Mike Hampton (8/$121) and Cliff Lee (5/$125). The list has 3 duds, and two who are not. But does this really bode well for the future of Lee and Sabathia?

    No RHP has ever received a free agent deal in this neighborhood. Zack Greinke figures to top the 6 yr/$100mill mark.   Given how well previous $100mill starting pitchers have done, who wants in?

    Blow this team up, and you might be looking at a 10 year rebuilding program. How long idd it take WAshington to become interesting again? Or how about Pittsburgh? Do people think you can decimate a roster for prospects and actually be relevant in two or three years? Not going to happen. And these fans who cannot handle a single bad season from a player are suddenly OK with 4-5 years of player development and an MLB learning curve (and minor league fallout) from EVERYONE? 

    Blow the team up? Ten years of rebuilding.  Who wants it?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    In Response to Re: Deadline Deal:
    In Response to Re: Deadline Deal : Hopefully they simply decide to gear up for next season.  A complete implosion of the roster, while in demand of the fans and media, would be an awful thing. Cafardo and company might demand everyone go, but they like it whn this team is losing.  It gives them more nightly gore to write about. Fans might want to see Beckett and Lester bth go, but this is unlikely, and extemely detrimental to this franchise.  The Sox don't haveanyone ready to step into the top of the rotation, so who becomes the #1 and #2 guys?  Matt Barnes? The worst thing the Sox could do is push both outthe door for whatever, and then sign a free agent to replace him.  We've seen how well that works, and while harsher critics seem to think these failures were limited to Epstein, the mere act of opening their eyes will show that free agency produces ALL th bad contracts, and very few good ones.  Can anyone name a former free agent who is under contract, and considered untouchable in trade?  There isa very big differenence between "untouchable" and "untradable." Let's see how free agency has treated starting pitchers with top of the rotation ability. The top deals have gone to CC Sabathia (7 yrs/$161mill), Johan Santana (6/$137.5), Zito (7/$126), Mike Hampton (8/$121) and Cliff Lee (5/$125). The list has 3 duds, and two who are not. But does this really bode well for the future of Lee and Sabathia? No RHP has ever received a free agent deal in this neighborhood. Zack Greinke figures to top the 6 yr/$100mill mark.   Given how well previous $100mill starting pitchers have done, who wants in?
    Posted by notin


    While I agree with a lot of this, there have been many many free agent acquisitions who have worked out and led to championships.

    Avoiding free agents is too simplistic of an approach.  Sure, we need to be selective, but to refuse to sign free agents as a rule is in effect operating as the Pirates, Twins, As, Royals....

    These teams arent the models of sucess.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal

    In Response to Re: Deadline Deal:
    In Response to Re: Deadline Deal : While I agree with a lot of this, there have been many many free agent acquisitions who have worked out and led to championships. Avoiding free agents is too simplistic of an approach.  Sure, we need to be selective , but to refuse to sign free agents as a rule is in effect operating as the Pirates, Twins, As, Royals.... These teams arent the models of sucess.
    Posted by Drewski5


    I tend to agree it's incumbent on those that are seen as the nucleaus to step up and do thier jobs. We can all lamment the signings of Crawford and Lackey all we want. In the end they alone are not the problem with this years team. Nor were they the reason the team collapsed last year. The burden both carry is the cost and lengths of thier contracts, weighted against thier production. The same can be said of Lester & Beckett. Neither of whom have delivered "ace" quality consistency since July of last year. Which begs the question of are they injured or is it simply that they both have lost the fire to compete?

    Something is clearly amiss with this team and it's Cherington and Valentine's jobs to figure it out and get them right. So in my mind adding more without subtracting some, leaves us in the same place. A roster of underachieving players that appears not to have the best interest of the team at heart. Makes it tough to intergrate new players into the mix. What none of us know is the cause and effect. The baseball buisness side is influencing the player performances. Nor can we without being part of the nucleaus assertain if indeed this team lacks leadership on the field. An example would be the contract that Gonzalez signed after we aquired him. Moneys that suggest that his role on the team was to assume a leadership position on field. How much did his deal effect Youkilis and Pedrioa who were at the time seen as the team leaders...Papi's been chirping about his contract in the press for a couple of years etc.

    So if we look back in recent history. The 2003-2004 teams all played with a chip and had guy's like Millar...however once we aquired Schilling, Pedro got his panty's in a bunch and soon thereafter left to play for the Met's. In part becasue he wanted to be seen as the ace and with Schilling on the team he was now #2...A role his ego couldn't accept...Make no mistake in the end these guys are human and if the sole focus is not on doing your part to help the greater good of the team. You end up with 25 guys and 25 cabs...From the outside looking in, I'm beginning to get the sense that that is exactly where this teams is headedd if they're not already there...

    To that end "blowing up the team" might be prudent thing to do...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Deadline Deal


    I am probably wrong but as I was watching things fall apart in Beck's game in Texas I thought this a perfect place for Beck and AGon. Beck would cost much less than Greinke money wise and you don't know how Greinke will perform back in thre AL.

    The Rangers have a plethora of youngist talent, notably pitchers and fielders. I realize it might be better left for the winter meetings but the Rangers are having a hard time scoring runs with Ham not hitting.

    Beckett is Ryan's kind of guy and AGon would perform well in the Texas heat in addition to having those wind tunnels to carry his line drives.

    Think about a possible deadline deal...
     
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