Deadline Sellers?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Deadline Sellers?

    I hate to even think about it, and even if we are 15 games behind by the deadline, I'm not sure Ben would ever push the total reboot button. Red Sox history has very few instances of unloading high-priced players and/or free agents to be, but there are a few from recent (AGon, Crawford & Beckett) to way back (Slocumb and Wells are two that come to mind).


    We have a great farm team on paper already, but trading away a few pieces to desperate GMs still in the race at the deadline could really boost our long term outlook as well as beef up our list of trade assets for a winter blockbuster or two.


    Here's a list of high-priced or free agents to be on our current roster:


    Pedroia: $110M/8 (Not going to be traded.)


    Buchholz: $7.7M then $12M plus 2 team options (Toughest call to make)


    Ortiz $16M then $16M and 2 club options (not likely to be traded)


    Napoli $16M then $16M in '15 (not likely to be traded)


    Victorino $13M then $13M (not likely to be traded, unless we view 2015 as a near lost cause too)


    Mujica $4.75M then $4.75M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect


    Breslow $3.8M then $4M team option: do it


    Lackey $15.25M then Min wage next year (not likely to be traded, unless we view 2015 as a near lost cause too)


    Lester $13M then FA: Blue chip trade candidate (if we can't extend...)


    Uehara: $4.25M then FA: Blue chipper (at his age, should we extend?)


    Peavy $14.5M then FA: If he is doing well, we could get a nice return here.


    Pierzynski $7.5M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect


    D Ross $3.1M: do it, even if for a low-level prospect


    J Gomes $5M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect


    Capuano $2.25M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect


    Badenhop $2.1M, Miller $1.9M and Sizemore $750K + bonues will all be FAs after this year: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect


    I would not look to trade arb players, but here are some that other teams may want: Carp $1.4M + 2 arbs, Herrera $1.3M + 1 arb, Tazawa $1.3M + 2 arbs (I would not trade Taz), Doubront $586K + 3 arbs (stock not high enough now- better to keep and pray), Nava $556K + 3 arbs (doubtful we get a nice enough return to give up on him).


    We will not trade all these guys. I'd be surprised if we trade away 1 or 2 for prospects, but the theory is sound, assuming we are out of it by July or the waiver-wire deadline in August.


    Assuming all our free agents to be bolt, and no free agents are signed (not going to happen) this is what we are left with for 2015:


    SP: Lackey, Buchholz, Doubront, Barnes, Ranaudo (or Owens)


    RP: Mujica, Tazawa, Workman, Britton, de la Rosa, Webster, A Wilson


    C: Vazquez & Butler (or Lava or Swihart)


    DH: Ortiz


    1B: Napoli  & Carp


    2B: Pedroia


    3B: Middlebrooks & Cecchini


    SS: Bogaerts (3B?)& Marrero (or Herrera or Holt)


    LF: Nava & Hassan (or Brentz)


    CF: JBJ (Wlkerson?)


    RF: Victorino (H Ramos?)


     


    Lots of holes, lots of young players with potential, lots of question marks, but also lots of promise.


    Sox4ever

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    Simplifying, and reffering only to the 25-man roster, There are only 9 players, I would even consider sticking with if I gad a choice, Forgetting contracts, free agency, etc. I would try my best to get rid of all except, BRADLEY, BOGAERTS, CAPUANO, HOLT, LESTER, MILLER, ORTIZ, PEDROIIA AND UEHARA.

    I would try and trade MIDDLEBROOKS, NAPOLI, SIZEMORE, VICTORINO, GOMES, PEAVY and BUCHHOLZ for AAA players.

    This based on watching the Red Sox for 80 (not a typo) for 80 years (one way or another); including every inning of every game they have played since Xtra Innings came to Comcast (Ft. Myers). Doesn't mean one of those tradeables won't come back to haunt us, but on average we'd be better off wiothout that gang. And, oh yes, Farrell was so badly out-thought, out-managed and out-foxed on Friday night that it's not even worth going into. He made a good decision before the game started (Holt to lead-off), but once the first pitch was thrown, it was all down hill for him. And to make matters worse, they were all predictably bad! He seemed ultra-confused the entire ball game.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I hate to even think about it, and even if we are 15 games behind by the deadline, I'm not sure Ben would ever push the total reboot button. Red Sox history has very few instances of unloading high-priced players and/or free agents to be, but there are a few from recent (AGon, Crawford & Beckett) to way back (Slocumb and Wells are two that come to mind).

     

    We have a great farm team on paper already, but trading away a few pieces to desperate GMs still in the race at the deadline could really boost our long term outlook as well as beef up our list of trade assets for a winter blockbuster or two.

     

    Here's a list of high-priced or free agents to be on our current roster:

     

    Pedroia: $110M/8 (Not going to be traded.)

     

    Buchholz: $7.7M then $12M plus 2 team options (Toughest call to make)

     

    Ortiz $16M then $16M and 2 club options (not likely to be traded)

     

    Napoli $16M then $16M in '15 (not likely to be traded)

     

    Victorino $13M then $13M (not likely to be traded, unless we view 2015 as a near lost cause too)

     

    Mujica $4.75M then $4.75M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect

     

    Breslow $3.8M then $4M team option: do it

     

    Lackey $15.25M then Min wage next year (not likely to be traded, unless we view 2015 as a near lost cause too)

     

    Lester $13M then FA: Blue chip trade candidate (if we can't extend...)

     

    Uehara: $4.25M then FA: Blue chipper (at his age, should we extend?)

     

    Peavy $14.5M then FA: If he is doing well, we could get a nice return here.

     

    Pierzynski $7.5M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect

     

    D Ross $3.1M: do it, even if for a low-level prospect

     

    J Gomes $5M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect

     

    Capuano $2.25M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect

     

    Badenhop $2.1M, Miller $1.9M and Sizemore $750K + bonues will all be FAs after this year: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect

     

    I would not look to trade arb players, but here are some that other teams may want: Carp $1.4M + 2 arbs, Herrera $1.3M + 1 arb, Tazawa $1.3M + 2 arbs (I would not trade Taz), Doubront $586K + 3 arbs (stock not high enough now- better to keep and pray), Nava $556K + 3 arbs (doubtful we get a nice enough return to give up on him).

     

    We will not trade all these guys. I'd be surprised if we trade away 1 or 2 for prospects, but the theory is sound, assuming we are out of it by July or the waiver-wire deadline in August.

     

    Assuming all our free agents to be bolt, and no free agents are signed (not going to happen) this is what we are left with for 2015:

     

    SP: Lackey, Buchholz, Doubront, Barnes, Ranaudo (or Owens)

     

    RP: Mujica, Tazawa, Workman, Britton, de la Rosa, Webster, A Wilson

     

    C: Vazquez & Butler (or Lava or Swihart)

     

    DH: Ortiz

     

    1B: Napoli  & Carp

     

    2B: Pedroia

     

    3B: Middlebrooks & Cecchini

     

    SS: Bogaerts (3B?)& Marrero (or Herrera or Holt)

     

    LF: Nava & Hassan (or Brentz)

     

    CF: JBJ (Wlkerson?)

     

    RF: Victorino (H Ramos?)

     

     

     

    Lots of holes, lots of young players with potential, lots of question marks, but also lots of promise.

     

    Sox4ever

    [/QUOTE]


    Well, have about 3 dozen games left to turn around before a decision must be made on whether or not to scrap this year and focus on next year and get an early start (we got an early start on 2013 at the trading deadline of 2012 and that worked out pretty well).  So yes, anyone who is not part of the 2015 plan should be packaged and dealt (Gomes, AJP, etc).

    I think you started a good list on the 2015 team.  But in sum, they are going to need a lot and when I get time to look at more I will see how much $ they will have but I don't think it will be enough to fill all their needs:

    *  They need 2 Starters.  They will need 3 if they don't resign Lester.  They need to resign Lester and hope one of their kids will be ready next year.  Plus they need to be in on trades like the Fister one.

    *  They will need 2 OF'ers - Left and Right.  You can't count on Vic.  They will have to deal for one and hope one of their kids is ready.  I almost like the idea of getting Kemp for Right Field.

    *  They will need a closer.  Even if they pay Koji (if they can afford him) I would think the last year or 2 of his contract he may be better served in a reduced role.

    *  They need both of their top catching prospects to be able to make the 25 man roster in 2015.

     

    It's a lot of question marks.  So Ben is in a bit of a quandry.  Do you go all out and try and win now (while you have Lester and Koji etc) or do you start planning early to fill the holes that will be voided in 2015 ???

    They need to show signs of life almost immediately before you can consider making a big trade.  But I still don't do anything until end of June, first week of July (But I start thinking about it very seriously if we hit 10 straight losses)...........

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I hate to even think about it, and even if we are 15 games behind by the deadline, I'm not sure Ben would ever push the total reboot button. Red Sox history has very few instances of unloading high-priced players and/or free agents to be, but there are a few from recent (AGon, Crawford & Beckett) to way back (Slocumb and Wells are two that come to mind).

     

    We have a great farm team on paper already, but trading away a few pieces to desperate GMs still in the race at the deadline could really boost our long term outlook as well as beef up our list of trade assets for a winter blockbuster or two.

     

    Here's a list of high-priced or free agents to be on our current roster:

     

    Pedroia: $110M/8 (Not going to be traded.)

     

    Buchholz: $7.7M then $12M plus 2 team options (Toughest call to make)

     

    Ortiz $16M then $16M and 2 club options (not likely to be traded)

     

    Napoli $16M then $16M in '15 (not likely to be traded)

     

    Victorino $13M then $13M (not likely to be traded, unless we view 2015 as a near lost cause too)

     

    Mujica $4.75M then $4.75M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect

     

    Breslow $3.8M then $4M team option: do it

     

    Lackey $15.25M then Min wage next year (not likely to be traded, unless we view 2015 as a near lost cause too)

     

    Lester $13M then FA: Blue chip trade candidate (if we can't extend...)

     

    Uehara: $4.25M then FA: Blue chipper (at his age, should we extend?)

     

    Peavy $14.5M then FA: If he is doing well, we could get a nice return here.

     

    Pierzynski $7.5M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect

     

    D Ross $3.1M: do it, even if for a low-level prospect

     

    J Gomes $5M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect

     

    Capuano $2.25M: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect

     

    Badenhop $2.1M, Miller $1.9M and Sizemore $750K + bonues will all be FAs after this year: do it, even if for a stretch of a prospect

     

    I would not look to trade arb players, but here are some that other teams may want: Carp $1.4M + 2 arbs, Herrera $1.3M + 1 arb, Tazawa $1.3M + 2 arbs (I would not trade Taz), Doubront $586K + 3 arbs (stock not high enough now- better to keep and pray), Nava $556K + 3 arbs (doubtful we get a nice enough return to give up on him).

     

    We will not trade all these guys. I'd be surprised if we trade away 1 or 2 for prospects, but the theory is sound, assuming we are out of it by July or the waiver-wire deadline in August.

     

    Assuming all our free agents to be bolt, and no free agents are signed (not going to happen) this is what we are left with for 2015:

     

    SP: Lackey, Buchholz, Doubront, Barnes, Ranaudo (or Owens)

     

    RP: Mujica, Tazawa, Workman, Britton, de la Rosa, Webster, A Wilson

     

    C: Vazquez & Butler (or Lava or Swihart)

     

    DH: Ortiz

     

    1B: Napoli  & Carp

     

    2B: Pedroia

     

    3B: Middlebrooks & Cecchini

     

    SS: Bogaerts (3B?)& Marrero (or Herrera or Holt)

     

    LF: Nava & Hassan (or Brentz)

     

    CF: JBJ (Wlkerson?)

     

    RF: Victorino (H Ramos?)

     

     

     

    Lots of holes, lots of young players with potential, lots of question marks, but also lots of promise.

     

    Sox4ever

    [/QUOTE]


    Well, have about 3 dozen games left to turn around before a decision must be made on whether or not to scrap this year and focus on next year and get an early start (we got an early start on 2013 at the trading deadline of 2012 and that worked out pretty well).  So yes, anyone who is not part of the 2015 plan should be packaged and dealt (Gomes, AJP, etc).

    I think you started a good list on the 2015 team.  But in sum, they are going to need a lot and when I get time to look at more I will see how much $ they will have but I don't think it will be enough to fill all their needs:

    *  They need 2 Starters.  They will need 3 if they don't resign Lester.  They need to resign Lester and hope one of their kids will be ready next year.  Plus they need to be in on trades like the Fister one.

    *  They will need 2 OF'ers - Left and Right.  You can't count on Vic.  They will have to deal for one and hope one of their kids is ready.  I almost like the idea of getting Kemp for Right Field.

    *  They will need a closer.  Even if they pay Koji (if they can afford him) I would think the last year or 2 of his contract he may be better served in a reduced role.

    *  They need both of their top catching prospects to be able to make the 25 man roster in 2015.

     

    It's a lot of question marks.  So Ben is in a bit of a quandry.  Do you go all out and try and win now (while you have Lester and Koji etc) or do you start planning early to fill the holes that will be voided in 2015 ???

    They need to show signs of life almost immediately before you can consider making a big trade.  But I still don't do anything until end of June, first week of July (But I start thinking about it very seriously if we hit 10 straight losses)...........

    [/QUOTE]


    PS - Buck is easy.  It's long overdue we dump him...Koji is the single hardest decision IMO.  Lester should be signed immediately.  I was thinking he could be traded if we fold but I think he can refuse a trade now???

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    There is not a single player on the roster I would consider "safe" from being traded unless they have a no trade clause. If we could trade Lester and get Sale or Kershaw, would you do it? Its a matter of what you get in return. If you can get more in return than you give up, you make the trade, assuming the Red Sox continue to lose and become sellers at the deadline. They key is to be committed 100% to it, not half way.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is not a single player on the roster I would consider "safe" from being traded unless they have a no trade clause. If we could trade Lester and get Sale or Kershaw, would you do it? Its a matter of what you get in return. If you can get more in return than you give up, you make the trade, assuming the Red Sox continue to lose and become sellers at the deadline. They key is to be committed 100% to it, not half way.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't think they would trade Ortiz or Pedey and I am sure Ben has a few kids in the farm that he considers off limits too but that would be about it.  Anyways, I think Moon listed what he thought would be reasonable assumptions.....

    First thing Ben needs to do is talk to Lester.  I think that will be the starting point for a lot of subsequent decisions for the next 10 months.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    Its funny but age will get Ortiz soon, and we have come to depend on him too much., as great as he has been and Pedey plays so hard how long will his career be?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    And, oh yes, Farrell was so badly out-thought, out-managed and out-foxed on Friday night that it's not even worth going into.

    Everything looks good when you're winning, and everything looks bad when you're losing, but I've questioned Farrell's moves more over the past month than in the 8 years under Tito.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to billge's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Its funny but age will get Ortiz soon, and we have come to depend on him too much., as great as he has been and Pedey plays so hard how long will his career be?

    [/QUOTE]


    Correct.  There simply is no replacing Ortiz.  When he's done (2 more years max) they will go to a revolving DH situation and it won't be the same.  Without Ortiz, this team HAS no hitter you fear. No power. No Yaz.  No Boomer.  No Evans.  No Armas.  No Baylor.  No Bruno.  No Vaugh.  No Nomar.  No Manny.  No Lowell.  No NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Contigency planning please!

    For Pedey, he's got 7 1/2 more years.  Estimate half of that time being Pedey and the rest just being an average 2b.  We've already seen him lose his HR swing.  Not much you can do there other than replace his production at other positions.

    The bigger issue is leadership.  These guys are your co-captains.  Don't wait to bring in a leader.  Be proactive.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    And, oh yes, Farrell was so badly out-thought, out-managed and out-foxed on Friday night that it's not even worth going into.

    Everything looks good when you're winning, and everything looks bad when you're losing, but I've questioned Farrell's moves more over the past month than in the 8 years under Tito.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Case in point: not pinch running for AJ when he led off the ninth with a base hit. You PR Hererra and he likely makes it to second base on Vic's bunt. Who knows what happens after that....maybe Ross throws out Jennings trying to steal too. Just dumb managing.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from billge. Show billge's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    Managing like you feel like you are winning when you are actually losing.  Again no sense of urgency, just like the front office.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to billge's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Managing like you feel like you are winning when you are actually losing.  Again no sense of urgency, just like the front office.

    [/QUOTE]

    Another example: a few days ago we were down by three runs in the 8th inning with runners on first and second base, no one out, Ross up. He has Ross BUNT....really??? We had six outs left to get three runs and he bunts? Ross did not execute the bunt and I think we left those two on base and lost the game. When you are down big you do not bunt; you play for a big inning. I realize that Ross has a hard time hitting, but in that situation you have to take a shot at it. Dumb managing.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    Well, have about 3 dozen games left to turn around before a decision must be made on whether or not to scrap this year and focus on next year and get an early start (we got an early start on 2013 at the trading deadline of 2012 and that worked out pretty well). So yes, anyone who is not part of the 2015 plan should be packaged and dealt (Gomes, AJP, etc).

    I think you started a good list on the 2015 team. But in sum, they are going to need a lot and when I get time to look at more I will see how much $ they will have but I don't think it will be enough to fill all their needs:

    * They need 2 Starters. They will need 3 if they don't resign Lester. They need to resign Lester and hope one of their kids will be ready next year. Plus they need to be in on trades like the Fister one.

    * They will need 2 OF'ers - Left and Right. You can't count on Vic. They will have to deal for one and hope one of their kids is ready. I almost like the idea of getting Kemp for Right Field.

    * They will need a closer. Even if they pay Koji (if they can afford him) I would think the last year or 2 of his contract he may be better served in a reduced role.

    * They need both of their top catching prospects to be able to make the 25 man roster in 2015.

    It helps having Lackey play at the minimum. If we keep Napoli, Victorino and Buchholtz for 2015, we'll still have a lot of money to spend on filling the holes that young players can't all fill. Cots has us at $78M next year, but I'm not sure what the luxury limit number is. My guess is we may have close to $100M to spend, and if we can find a few good mid level FAs that worked out like Vic and Naps last year, we should be able to get 1 or 2 big named free agents to fill the shoes of Lester and Uehara or a hole a struggling prospects has opened up. Here's another look with adding $95M in free agents....

    SP: ________ ($25M/yr FA), ________ ($20M FA), Lackey, 2 from: Buchholz, Doubront, Barnes, Ranaudo, Owens, de la Rosa, or Webster 

    RP: ________ ($12M FA), _________ ($3M FA), Mujica, Tazawa, Workman, 2 from: SP not in rotation (see above), Britton, or A Wilson 

    C: ________ ($5M vet FA) & Vazquez or Butler (or Lava or Swihart) 

    DH: Ortiz 

    1B: Napoli & Carp 

    2B: Pedroia 

    3B: Bogaerts (SS?)& Middlebrooks or Cecchini 

    SS: __________ ($5M FA) & Marrero , Herrera or Holt 

    LF: ___________ ($20M Big bopper clean-up hitter) & Nava, Hassan or Brentz 

    CF: JBJ  & ___________ ($5M capable RH'd back-up RF/CF) 

    RF: Victorino & Hassan, H Ramos or Brentz

     It's a lot of question marks. So Ben is in a bit of a quandry. Do you go all out and try and win now (while you have Lester and Koji etc) or do you start planning early to fill the holes that will be voided in 2015 ???

    We should have a better idea of what choice to make by the end of July. I'm not gining up on this year yet, but things are not looking good at the moment... to say the least.

    They need to show signs of life almost immediately before you can consider making a big trade. But I still don't do anything until end of June, first week of July (But I start thinking about it very seriously if we hit 10 straight losses)...........

    I'd be thinking about it right now and possibly even putting out feelers, but I don't make any moves until July 1st at the earliest.

    We can also make waiver deals in August, if it takes until then for us to know we have no chance.

    Sox4ever

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is not a single player on the roster I would consider "safe" from being traded unless they have a no trade clause. If we could trade Lester and get Sale or Kershaw, would you do it? Its a matter of what you get in return. If you can get more in return than you give up, you make the trade, assuming the Red Sox continue to lose and become sellers at the deadline. They key is to be committed 100% to it, not half way.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE[/QUOTE]


    Lester is a FA after this year, so we won't get anyone like Sale for him.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    If you go from World Champs to deadline sellers, it is a pretty sad commentary on management. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is not a single player on the roster I would consider "safe" from being traded unless they have a no trade clause. If we could trade Lester and get Sale or Kershaw, would you do it? Its a matter of what you get in return. If you can get more in return than you give up, you make the trade, assuming the Red Sox continue to lose and become sellers at the deadline. They key is to be committed 100% to it, not half way.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE[/QUOTE]


    Lester is a FA after this year, so we won't get anyone like Sale for him.

    [/QUOTE]

    The point is that everyone should be available if we are sellers. We make the deal if we get more in return than we give up. Even Pedroia should be available.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you go from World Champs to deadline sellers, it is a pretty sad commentary on management. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.[/QUOTE]

    I disagree. I think we built a good team on paper while keeping our future intact. We built up an extra draft pick too.

    You can't trade for or develop timely hitting. The same guys who were doing it last year are not now. I don't blame Ben or John for that. I don't really even blame the hitters. There is no way to realistically expect consistent timely hitting or for players to always hit or pitch to expectations.

    I get the argument that some of you had about low expectations this year. With the departure of Ellsbury, Salty, Drew (so far), and few other minor pieces and the additions of AJ P, Mujica, Capuano, one can easily argue that the ball was dropped by management. However, I do not think it was incompetent for management to think almost all the slack of those departing players could be taken up by the additions of Bogaerts & JBJ plus full & healthy seasons from Buch, Middy and Vic. Of course, we needed to expect and plan for injuries and downturns by some key players, but I think this team, if anything, looked deep at nearly every position.

    Most saw AJ P as about an equal replacement for Salty.

    Many felt Drew was over-paid and expected Bogey to be equal to Drew (better )- worse D= overall about equal).

    We didn't get jack from 3B last year and still won, so a healthy Middy looked to be an area we could improve to make up for some of the loss in CF. It hasn't happened.

    Adding Mujica & Capuano and losing Dempster looked like a chance for a huge gain.

    The only true loss looked to be CF. I know we miss Jacoby, but no way can his loss be the only reason we have gone from champs to chumps.

    I had hoped we picked up one big named player last winter. I wasn't happy about everything done or not done, but I felt we had a highly competitive team on paper. The players just have not come through. I don't blame Ben for that. I'm holding off blaming John as of now.

    I still like our long term outlook.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you go from World Champs to deadline sellers, it is a pretty sad commentary on management. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.[/QUOTE]

    I disagree. I think we built a good team on paper while keeping our future intact. We built up an extra draft pick too.

    You can't trade for or develop timely hitting. The same guys who were doing it last year are not now. I don't blame Ben or John for that. I don't really even blame the hitters. There is no way to realistically expect consistent timely hitting or for players to always hit or pitch to expectations.

    I get the argument that some of you had about low expectations this year. With the departure of Ellsbury, Salty, Drew (so far), and few other minor pieces and the additions of AJ P, Mujica, Capuano, one can easily argue that the ball was dropped by management. However, I do not think it was incompetent for management to think almost all the slack of those departing players could be taken up by the additions of Bogaerts & JBJ plus full & healthy seasons from Buch, Middy and Vic. Of course, we needed to expect and plan for injuries and downturns by some key players, but I think this team, if anything, looked deep at nearly every position.

    Most saw AJ P as about an equal replacement for Salty.

    Many felt Drew was over-paid and expected Bogey to be equal to Drew (better )- worse D= overall about equal).

    We didn't get jack from 3B last year and still won, so a healthy Middy looked to be an area we could improve to make up for some of the loss in CF. It hasn't happened.

    Adding Mujica & Capuano and losing Dempster looked like a chance for a huge gain.

    The only true loss looked to be CF. I know we miss Jacoby, but no way can his loss be the only reason we have gone from champs to chumps.

    I had hoped we picked up one big named player last winter. I wasn't happy about everything done or not done, but I felt we had a highly competitive team on paper. The players just have not come through. I don't blame Ben for that. I'm holding off blaming John as of now.

    I still like our long term outlook.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].    I think there were three primary needs this off season. A leadoff hitter, preferably one with speed. A middle of the order power bat. A front line starting pitcher. It was unrealistic to fill all three of those needs, but I felt that they were remiss in not filling any of them. I think the results so far bear that out. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:


    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    If you go from World Champs to deadline sellers, it is a pretty sad commentary on management. 


    Stabbed by Foulke.


    I disagree. I think we built a good team on paper while keeping our future intact. We built up an extra draft pick too.


    You can't trade for or develop timely hitting. The same guys who were doing it last year are not now. I don't blame Ben or John for that. I don't really even blame the hitters. There is no way to realistically expect consistent timely hitting or for players to always hit or pitch to expectations.


    I get the argument that some of you had about low expectations this year. With the departure of Ellsbury, Salty, Drew (so far), and few other minor pieces and the additions of AJ P, Mujica, Capuano, one can easily argue that the ball was dropped by management. However, I do not think it was incompetent for management to think almost all the slack of those departing players could be taken up by the additions of Bogaerts & JBJ plus full & healthy seasons from Buch, Middy and Vic. Of course, we needed to expect and plan for injuries and downturns by some key players, but I think this team, if anything, looked deep at nearly every position.


    Most saw AJ P as about an equal replacement for Salty.


    Many felt Drew was over-paid and expected Bogey to be equal to Drew (better )- worse D= overall about equal).


    We didn't get jack from 3B last year and still won, so a healthy Middy looked to be an area we could improve to make up for some of the loss in CF. It hasn't happened.


    Adding Mujica & Capuano and losing Dempster looked like a chance for a huge gain.


    The only true loss looked to be CF. I know we miss Jacoby, but no way can his loss be the only reason we have gone from champs to chumps.


    I had hoped we picked up one big named player last winter. I wasn't happy about everything done or not done, but I felt we had a highly competitive team on paper. The players just have not come through. I don't blame Ben for that. I'm holding off blaming John as of now.


    I still like our long term outlook.


    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement].    I think there were three primary needs this off season. A leadoff hitter, preferably one with speed. A middle of the order power bat. A front line starting pitcher. It was unrealistic to fill all three of those needs, but I felt that they were remiss in not filling any of them. I think the results so far bear that out. 


    [/QUOTE]


    they needed to improve on OF production for losing Ellsbury and to protect against The Man of Clay


     


    they did neither

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from stinkman. Show stinkman's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    If they don't sign lester, I would love to get Jeff Samardzija from the cubs.Dont know what Theo would ask for but could be a possible replacement for lester. Now I want them to sign lester, I am just saying the cubs are going no where.. Just a thought.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to stinkman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If they don't sign lester, I would love to get Jeff Samardzija from the cubs.Dont know what Theo would ask for but could be a possible replacement for lester. Now I want them to sign lester, I am just saying the cubs are going no where.. Just a thought.

    [/QUOTE]


    I thought about it several different ways and I have come to the conclusion that they must sign Lester.  6 @ 110 is fair for both sides.  Try and do that ASAP. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from stinkman. Show stinkman's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stinkman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If they don't sign lester, I would love to get Jeff Samardzija from the cubs.Dont know what Theo would ask for but could be a possible replacement for lester. Now I want them to sign lester, I am just saying the cubs are going no where.. Just a thought.

    [/QUOTE]


    I thought about it several different ways and I have come to the conclusion that they must sign Lester.  6 @ 110 is fair for both sides.  Try and do that ASAP. 

    [/QUOTE]

    It's a great thought.. But you may be off by 15-20 million.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to stinkman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stinkman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If they don't sign lester, I would love to get Jeff Samardzija from the cubs.Dont know what Theo would ask for but could be a possible replacement for lester. Now I want them to sign lester, I am just saying the cubs are going no where.. Just a thought.

    [/QUOTE]


    I thought about it several different ways and I have come to the conclusion that they must sign Lester.  6 @ 110 is fair for both sides.  Try and do that ASAP. 

    [/QUOTE]

    It's a great thought.. But you may be off by 15-20 million.

    [/QUOTE]


    well, that's market value.  he said he wanted to have his Red Sox jersey ripped from his back.  now i know that doesn't mean at 5/70 or 5/80 but what did he mean?  giving the Sox a 1% discount?  heck, i even give my family members a 2% discount at my shop..........

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from stinkman. Show stinkman's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    Grenkie, Hammels, scherzer, Cain. Tannaka. Looking for that range. Yes they are a little younger . But lester is durable. He never goes on the DL.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to stinkman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Grenkie, Hammels, scherzer, Cain. Tannaka. Looking for that range. Yes they are a little younger . But lester is durable. He never goes on the DL.

    [/QUOTE]


    yes that range less 10 to 15% hometown discount that Lester claimed he was willing to do

     

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