Deadline Sellers?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from stinkman. Show stinkman's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    Why he said that I have no idea. But he did say that. He's not signing for that. He can get a 6 or 7 year deal easy. As long as he gets through the year healthy. Home town discount is bull I agree with you.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to stinkman's comment:

    Why he said that I have no idea. But he did say that. He's not signing for that. He can get a 6 or 7 year deal easy. As long as he gets through the year healthy. Home town discount is bull I agree with you.




    well, i think you know how i feel about liars.  if he's in it for top dollar and lied to us directly to our faces, then he can get lost.  i'd rather lose then put up with liars.  this ain't the yankees!!!!!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from stinkman. Show stinkman's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    Getting back to your list.. Pedey, Ortiz , lackey , Koji , XB. Victorino( unlikely). Don't want to trade lackey but I would ask for your 2 top prospects in AA. If the other GM laughs and hangs up that's fine. Do t have to worry about him calling back and offering a player hitting 230 and a fringe AAA prospect.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    I am waiting for the news tonight that Sizemore has been cut. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to stinkman's comment:

    Why he said that I have no idea. But he did say that. He's not signing for that. He can get a 6 or 7 year deal easy. As long as he gets through the year healthy. Home town discount is bull I agree with you.




    [object HTMLDivElement]        Negotiation 101 :  Never start bargaining by saying you will take a home town discount. I cringed when I read that. I am sure that Lester would like to take it back. Even if you are willing to take a little less, don't start off by telling them that. Very foolish. That is why they gave him a lowball offer. They were testing him to see if was really that naive.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    When a team plays this poorly, you can get frustrated and want to see them start dumping the unproductive players. But sometimes you have to take a deep breath and stay the course for a while. There are no really good alternatives at this point anyway.  This problem started in the off season.  It does no good to panic now. Any moves that are made should be sane and sensible, with a purpose of improving the team.  Otherwise, you can only make more mistakes and make the situation worse.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    I think there were three primary needs this off season. A leadoff hitter, preferably one with speed. A middle of the order power bat. A front line starting pitcher. It was unrealistic to fill all three of those needs, but I felt that they were remiss in not filling any of them. I think the results so far bear that out.

    A fair enough opinion, and many of us, including myself, said the about same thing during and after last winter, but instead of a leadoff hitter we included a closer, 1Bman, or RF'er.

    Sox4ever

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to stinkman's comment:

    If they don't sign lester, I would love to get Jeff Samardzija from the cubs.Dont know what Theo would ask for but could be a possible replacement for lester. Now I want them to sign lester, I am just saying the cubs are going no where.. Just a thought. 


    I thought about it several different ways and I have come to the conclusion that they must sign Lester.  6 @ 110 is fair for both sides.  Try and do that ASAP. 


    I agree, but maybe more like $100M/5 or $120M/6 with a club option 7th year at $10M.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to stinkman's comment:

    If they don't sign lester, I would love to get Jeff Samardzija from the cubs.Dont know what Theo would ask for but could be a possible replacement for lester. Now I want them to sign lester, I am just saying the cubs are going no where.. Just a thought. 


    I thought about it several different ways and I have come to the conclusion that they must sign Lester.  6 @ 110 is fair for both sides.  Try and do that ASAP. 


    I agree, but maybe more like $100M/5 or $120M/6 with a club option 7th year at $10M.




    [object HTMLDivElement]    A lot of people though Samardzija made a mistake when he chose baseball over football. But it looks like he was right.  He is about to cash in big time. And no concussions either.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    Here are some key players that Cots lists as possible 2015 FAs:

    (* 2015 option)

    C: R, Suzuki,  Martin

    1B: VMart, Butler*

    SS: A Cabrera, JJ Hardy, Lowrie

    3B: HanRam, Sandoval, Headley, A Ramirez

    OF: M Cabrera, N Cruz, Cuddyer, R Davis, Morse, C Rasmus

    SP: Scherzer, Lester, Shields, Kuroda, Masterson, Cueto*, Gallardo*, 

    Sox4ever

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    Deadline sellers is looking more and more like a strong chance of happening.

    Sox4ever

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from az55. Show az55's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    If the the Sox continue to falter which seems likely these days then flip the roster and become sellers at the deadline.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    You can't dump your best player on the roster (Ellsbury) and pick up no one to replace him.

    Now they a definite in seller mode.  The players who must go are:

    Peavy:  he's just not effective at all

    Buch:  bye

    Sizemore:  just release the guy

     

    Defense.  It is still important.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    You can't dump your best player on the roster (Ellsbury) and pick up no one to replace him.

    Now they a definite in seller mode.  The players who must go are:

    Peavy:  he's just not effective at all

    Buch:  bye

    Sizemore:  just release the guy

     

    Defense.  It is still important.




    Mejica too and then guys plus the vets w/ no contracts next year - AJP, Ross, Gomes etc

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    You can't dump your best player on the roster (Ellsbury) and pick up no one to replace him.


    1) You mean the guy with the 10th best OPS on his own team last year (9th best among players with 230+ PAs)?


    2) You mean the guy with the 8th best OPS (.809) on the Sox from 2010 to 2013 (players with 500+ PAs and just barely ahead of Cody Ross, Victorino, and Daniel Nava)?


    3) You mean the guy who played in just 384 games over his last 4 seasons with the Sox?


    Yes, Ellsbury was a key component of our team. He was one of our best players when you consider defense and speed on the base paths. Hoping JBJ could lessen the impact of the loss was certainly part of the winter plan, but I think Ben was hoping the improvements made to the bull pen, and the return of a healthy Middy & Buch could also lessen the impact. It didn't work, but it's not like Ben did nothing to improve parts of this team over the winter. He spent about the same on this budget as last year's. Sometimes it works- sometimes it doesn't.


     


    Sox4ever

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    You can't dump your best player on the roster (Ellsbury) and pick up no one to replace him.

     

    1) You mean the guy with the 10th best OPS on his own team last year (9th best among players with 230+ PAs)?

     

    2) You mean the guy with the 8th best OPS (.809) on the Sox from 2010 to 2013 (players with 500+ PAs and just barely ahead of Cody Ross, Victorino, and Daniel Nava)?

     

    3) You mean the guy who played in just 384 games over his last 4 seasons with the Sox?

     

    Yes, Ellsbury was a key component of our team. He was one of our best players when you consider defense and speed on the base paths. Hoping JBJ could lessen the impact of the loss was certainly part of the winter plan, but I think Ben was hoping the improvements made to the bull pen, and the return of a healthy Middy & Buch could also lessen the impact. It didn't work, but it's not like Ben did nothing to improve parts of this team over the winter. He spent about the same on this budget as last year's. Sometimes it works- sometimes it doesn't.

     

     

     

    Sox4ever




    see - that right there was planning to fail.  anyone who relies on Clay Buchholtz - for ANYTHING - is setting themselves up for failure.  Major Major Failure.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    You can't dump your best player on the roster (Ellsbury) and pick up no one to replace him.

     

    1) You mean the guy with the 10th best OPS on his own team last year (9th best among players with 230+ PAs)?

     

    2) You mean the guy with the 8th best OPS (.809) on the Sox from 2010 to 2013 (players with 500+ PAs and just barely ahead of Cody Ross, Victorino, and Daniel Nava)?

     

    3) You mean the guy who played in just 384 games over his last 4 seasons with the Sox?

     

    Yes, Ellsbury was a key component of our team. He was one of our best players when you consider defense and speed on the base paths. Hoping JBJ could lessen the impact of the loss was certainly part of the winter plan, but I think Ben was hoping the improvements made to the bull pen, and the return of a healthy Middy & Buch could also lessen the impact. It didn't work, but it's not like Ben did nothing to improve parts of this team over the winter. He spent about the same on this budget as last year's. Sometimes it works- sometimes it doesn't.

     

     

     

    Sox4ever



    I was going to post something like the first part of your post as well. Ellsbury was good, but he was not only not our best player but he is in no way a guy you build your team around. He has a just OK lifetime OPS, is injury prone, and has a spaghetti arm out there in CF. Bradley his defense entirely. 

    However, IMO Cherington IS partly to blame for fielding a team like this. He put it together, and, as you said, it didn't work. There IS blame-on Cherington, Farrell, and the players who are zombies out there right now.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    You can't dump your best player on the roster (Ellsbury) and pick up no one to replace him.

     

    1) You mean the guy with the 10th best OPS on his own team last year (9th best among players with 230+ PAs)?

     

    2) You mean the guy with the 8th best OPS (.809) on the Sox from 2010 to 2013 (players with 500+ PAs and just barely ahead of Cody Ross, Victorino, and Daniel Nava)?

     

    3) You mean the guy who played in just 384 games over his last 4 seasons with the Sox?

     

    Yes, Ellsbury was a key component of our team. He was one of our best players when you consider defense and speed on the base paths. Hoping JBJ could lessen the impact of the loss was certainly part of the winter plan, but I think Ben was hoping the improvements made to the bull pen, and the return of a healthy Middy & Buch could also lessen the impact. It didn't work, but it's not like Ben did nothing to improve parts of this team over the winter. He spent about the same on this budget as last year's. Sometimes it works- sometimes it doesn't.

     

     

     

    Sox4ever




    see - that right there was planning to fail.  anyone who relies on Clay Buchholtz - for ANYTHING - is setting themselves up for failure.  Major Major Failure.



    I think they have a plan for failure.  With the chips they could have at the deadline the Sox could become sellers and with the pieces they get/have they could pick up a Stanton and another piece and still have a top farm + they have A LOT more payroll space than any team who has shown willingness to spend up to the cap and it's really not even that close.

    We could completely reset this offseason if all fails.  This team could bring in Stanton+ and sign Lester and Scherzer and not even be worried about their payroll and still have a strong farm.  Is that the route they will go? probably not exactly those players but that formular none the less they could execute without even blinking.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    You can't dump your best player on the roster (Ellsbury) and pick up no one to replace him.

     

    1) You mean the guy with the 10th best OPS on his own team last year (9th best among players with 230+ PAs)?

     

    2) You mean the guy with the 8th best OPS (.809) on the Sox from 2010 to 2013 (players with 500+ PAs and just barely ahead of Cody Ross, Victorino, and Daniel Nava)?

     

    3) You mean the guy who played in just 384 games over his last 4 seasons with the Sox?

     

    Yes, Ellsbury was a key component of our team. He was one of our best players when you consider defense and speed on the base paths. Hoping JBJ could lessen the impact of the loss was certainly part of the winter plan, but I think Ben was hoping the improvements made to the bull pen, and the return of a healthy Middy & Buch could also lessen the impact. It didn't work, but it's not like Ben did nothing to improve parts of this team over the winter. He spent about the same on this budget as last year's. Sometimes it works- sometimes it doesn't.

     

     

     

    Sox4ever



    I was going to post something like the first part of your post as well. Ellsbury was good, but he was not only not our best player but he is in no way a guy you build your team around. He has a just OK lifetime OPS, is injury prone, and has a spaghetti arm out there in CF. Bradley his defense entirely. 

    However, IMO Cherington IS partly to blame for fielding a team like this. He put it together, and, as you said, it didn't work. There IS blame-on Cherington, Farrell, and the players who are zombies out there right now.

    WE ARE ALL JUST POPPYSEEDS IN THE BAKERY OF LIFE

     




    right there is once again why OPS is not a good stat.  Why would you smash 2 UNRELATED stats together?  You need guys w good OBP and guys w. good SLG%.  Sometimes, rarely, you get guys who can do both.  You know what they are called?  Hall of Famers.......Ells is an OBP guy, not a slugger.  That's his role.  Why you would use OPS to measure Ells success is completely incorrect.  I have said OPS is flawed for years now.  Moon - you're great but you need to get off your love affair w/ OPS.

    Ellsbury:

    Bona Fid lead off hitter.  Solid OBP and great baserunner/base stealer.  A great lead off guy could completely change the complexion of your line up.

    Excellent CF.  With Ells in CF you could have sub par range in LF and RF.

    Battled Tested.  In Boston.  In the playoffs.  In the playoffs w/ Boston.

    But sure, look at OPS and well, you'll fail 9 times out of 10.

    Last year's line up Ells was our 3rd best hitter and easily our best OF'er..........

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:


    You can't dump your best player on the roster (Ellsbury) and pick up no one to replace him.


     


    1) You mean the guy with the 10th best OPS on his own team last year (9th best among players with 230+ PAs)?


     


    2) You mean the guy with the 8th best OPS (.809) on the Sox from 2010 to 2013 (players with 500+ PAs and just barely ahead of Cody Ross, Victorino, and Daniel Nava)?


     


    3) You mean the guy who played in just 384 games over his last 4 seasons with the Sox?


     


    Yes, Ellsbury was a key component of our team. He was one of our best players when you consider defense and speed on the base paths. Hoping JBJ could lessen the impact of the loss was certainly part of the winter plan, but I think Ben was hoping the improvements made to the bull pen, and the return of a healthy Middy & Buch could also lessen the impact. It didn't work, but it's not like Ben did nothing to improve parts of this team over the winter. He spent about the same on this budget as last year's. Sometimes it works- sometimes it doesn't.


     


     


     


    Sox4ever





    [object HTMLDivElement].  You can't put everything on OPS. Ellsbury, like Pedroia, is a guy you have to watch day in and day to appreciate the numerous things he does to help the team win. I think he and Pedroia played very well off of each other. Pedroia benefitted from hitting with Ellsbury on base. There are a lot of things besides OPS that go into winning baseball. I can understand not wanting to spend all that money to retain Ellsbury. Choo was a slightly cheaper alternative, but Ben had no interest in him either. Davis was a considerably cheaper alternative, but again no interest. Ben went bargain basement with Sizemore. While the jury is still out on that, so far it has been a failure. There is always going to be a reason not to sign someone. Ellsbury- too much money, too many years. Choo- likewise. Tanaka- too much money, no MLB experience.  Same thing with Abreu. There is always a reason not to do something. And Ben did very little this off season. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    Last year's line up Ells was our 3rd best hitter and easily our best OF'er........

    Vic had almost the same WAR as Ellsbury in less games, soI don't think Ellsbury was "easily" our best OF'er last year. I won't argue he wasn't, but it was closer than you make it out to be.

    You might be able to persuade some posters that Ellsbury was our 3rd best offensive player last year, but he certainly was not our "3rd best hitter".

    All these Red Sox players had a better OPS:

    Ortiz, Carp, Napoli, Nava, Salty, Vic, Pedroia and Iggy.

    All these players had a better OBP:

    Ortiz, Nava, Iggy, Pedey, Carp and Napoli

    All these players had a better SLG%:

    Ortiz, Carp, Napoli, Salty, Vic, Nava, Drew

    All these players were better in OBP and SLG%: Ortiz, Carp, Nava.

    I'd have to say that our best hitters in 2013 were (in order):

    1) Ortiz

    2) Napoli

    3) Carp

    4) Nava

    5) Victorino

    6) Salty

    7) Pedroia

    8) Ellsbury

    No way do I pay what he got from the Yanks based on his his added speed and defense. 

    .355 is a good OBP, but for a lead-off hitter, it not great. His career OBP is .349 (.346 at leadoff) and it is .322 this year. His OPS this year is .720.

    I'm glad we did not outbid the Yanks for his services.

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Last year's line up Ells was our 3rd best hitter and easily our best OF'er........

    Vic had almost the same WAR as Ellsbury in less games, soI don't think Ellsbury was "easily" our best OF'er last year. I won't argue he wasn't, but it was closer than you make it out to be.

    You might be able to persuade some posters that Ellsbury was our 3rd best offensive player last year, but he certainly was not our "3rd best hitter".

    All these Red Sox players had a better OPS:

    Ortiz, Carp, Napoli, Nava, Salty, Vic, Pedroia and Iggy.

    All these players had a better OBP:

    Ortiz, Nava, Iggy, Pedey, Carp and Napoli

    All these players had a better SLG%:

    Ortiz, Carp, Napoli, Salty, Vic, Nava, Drew

    All these players were better in OBP and SLG%: Ortiz, Carp, Nava.

    I'd have to say that our best hitters in 2013 were (in order):

    1) Ortiz

    2) Napoli

    3) Carp

    4) Nava

    5) Victorino

    6) Salty

    7) Pedroia

    8) Ellsbury

    No way do I pay what he got from the Yanks based on his his added speed and defense. 

    .355 is a good OBP, but for a lead-off hitter, it not great. His career OBP is .349 (.346 at leadoff) and it is .322 this year. His OPS this year is .720.

    I'm glad we did not outbid the Yanks for his services.

     

     

    Sox4ever




    the issue isn't "would I have matched the yankees?" - that's a big NO

    the issue is he is better than you think and I'll take a 360 OBP w/ 50 steals over a 385 OBP w/ no speed

    you have to look at the total package and understand the "ripple effect" a guy can have

    and yes, he was a better hitter than everyone but Ortiz and Pedey - OVERALL. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Last year's line up Ells was our 3rd best hitter and easily our best OF'er........

    Vic had almost the same WAR as Ellsbury in less games, soI don't think Ellsbury was "easily" our best OF'er last year. I won't argue he wasn't, but it was closer than you make it out to be.

    You might be able to persuade some posters that Ellsbury was our 3rd best offensive player last year, but he certainly was not our "3rd best hitter".

    All these Red Sox players had a better OPS:

    Ortiz, Carp, Napoli, Nava, Salty, Vic, Pedroia and Iggy.

    All these players had a better OBP:

    Ortiz, Nava, Iggy, Pedey, Carp and Napoli

    All these players had a better SLG%:

    Ortiz, Carp, Napoli, Salty, Vic, Nava, Drew

    All these players were better in OBP and SLG%: Ortiz, Carp, Nava.

    I'd have to say that our best hitters in 2013 were (in order):

    1) Ortiz

    2) Napoli

    3) Carp

    4) Nava

    5) Victorino

    6) Salty

    7) Pedroia

    8) Ellsbury

    No way do I pay what he got from the Yanks based on his his added speed and defense. 

    .355 is a good OBP, but for a lead-off hitter, it not great. His career OBP is .349 (.346 at leadoff) and it is .322 this year. His OPS this year is .720.

    I'm glad we did not outbid the Yanks for his services.

     

     

    Sox4ever

       Fine. Don't outbid the Yankees for anyone. Who needs Ellsbury, Tanaka and McCann ? What should have been done to compensate?  Choo, Cruz, Davis ?  No?  Okay , our outfield is so lacking in offensive production that it is hard to believe. This is the result of doing nothing. Is Cherington above being criticized?  Is it that Henry took away the checkbook?  What is the problem? How does a championship team go this sour in one year?  You can't explain it away by saying " It is hard to repeat " or " Sometime it works, sometimes it doesn't." 


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    right there is once again why OPS is not a good stat. Why would you smash 2 UNRELATED stats together? You need guys w good OBP and guys w. good SLG%. Sometimes, rarely, you get guys who can do both. You know what they are called? Hall of Famers.......

    You just answered your own question. 

    While OBP is more important than SLG%, both are valuable, and better stats to measure good hitting than BA or OBP or SLG% alone.

    Ellsbury was not a top 3 OBP guy on his own team, in fact he had 4 regulars and 2 nonregulars with higher OBPs. 

     

    Ells is an OBP guy, not a slugger. That's his role.

    He is not a great OBP guy either, so I am missing your point.

    Why you would use OPS to measure Ells success is completely incorrect. I have said OPS is flawed for years now. Moon - you're great but you need to get off your love affair w/ OPS.

    When Ellsbury was cracking HRs from the leadoff slot, we saw the advantages of having a solid OBP and SLG%, and yes, those are the guys worth paying $20M+ x 6 or more years. Yes, the "HOF types". Yes!

    His OBP since 2012 is under .340 and just 14th best among all MLB CF'ers with 800+ PAs.

    I keep hearing people say his SBs turn singles into 2Bs, so it's like adding points to his SLG%. This has some merit, but it doesn't help his OBP get any better.

    (FYI: OPS is a better stat than BA, OBP, SLG%, but it is not to be used in a vacumn. Of course OBP is more important for a leadoff hitter and SLG'ing is more imprtant for a 3-5 hitter. If Ellsbury's OBP was .420 and his slugging was .350, I wouldn't argue for one second about his .770 OPS: he'd be a great leadoff hitter. However, I will never be able to call any leadoff hitter great who has an OBP below .375, let alone under .355 or .340.)

    Ellsbury:

    Bona Fid lead off hitter. Solid OBP and great baserunner/base stealer. A great lead off guy could completely change the complexion of your line up.

    His .339 OBP since 2012 and .322 OBP this year is far from "solid", especially for a leadoff hitter.

    Excellent CF. With Ells in CF you could have sub par range in LF and RF.

    He was certainly a plus CF'er and probably top 6 or 7, but not great. 

    Battled Tested. In Boston. In the playoffs. In the playoffs w/ Boston.

    True.

    But sure, look at OPS and well, you'll fail 9 times out of 10.

    I don't get this statement. Look at OBP- the stat you chose to measure his greatness by. From the start of 2013 to right now, there are 210 MLB players with 500+ PAs. Guess where Ellsbury places...

    #55 between Howie Kendrick and Brandon Moss. He has not even been a top 25% OBP! And, he's a lead off hitter.

    Last year's line up Ells was our 3rd best hitter and easily our best OF'er..........

    He was NOT OUR 3RD BEST HITTER by any measurement. Repeating it over and over will not make it any more correct.

    Hitting includes SLG and OBP, but even if you go by the antiquated BA stat to prove he was our 3rd best hitter, he was 4th (not counting Iggy's .330 in 234 PAs).

    .309 Papi

    .303 Nava

    .301 Pedey

    .298 Ellsbury

    You don't pay the kind of money the Yanks paid for a guy who ranked 4th on his own team in BA, 5th in OBP (not counting Iggy & Carp), and 7th in SLG (not counting Carp).

    Now, if you want to argue we should have signed N. Cruz or Choo, then that's another matter.

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deadline Sellers?

    You can't put everything on OPS. Ellsbury, like Pedroia, is a guy you have to watch day in and day to appreciate the numerous things he does to help the team win. I think he and Pedroia played very well off of each other. Pedroia benefitted from hitting with Ellsbury on base. There are a lot of things besides OPS that go into winning baseball. I can understand not wanting to spend all that money to retain Ellsbury. Choo was a slightly cheaper alternative, but Ben had no interest in him either. Davis was a considerably cheaper alternative, but again no interest. Ben went bargain basement with Sizemore. While the jury is still out on that, so far it has been a failure. There is always going to be a reason not to sign someone. Ellsbury- too much money, too many years. Choo- likewise. Tanaka- too much money, no MLB experience. Same thing with Abreu. There is always a reason not to do something. And Ben did very little this off season.

    Just because I cite OPS a lot, doesn't mean I don't recognize other things players do to help a team win: I do.

    However, OPS is a very telling stat, and no way do I ever even come close to paying $20M+ to a guy with a .775 OPS, unless that includes a .400+ OBP and 80+ SBs...and even then,...

    Sox4ever

     
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