Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    I completely get, understand, and even in some respects know why the Sox FO did this deal. I think there were multiple factors--with PR/fan appeasement one of them in a last-chance effort by management to show the Sox fans "they do care."
    But it followed yet another brand of systematic spinning through the media of Beckett and AGON being selfish/me-me guys and CC being out of touch with managers (first Tito and now BV) and out of touch with rehab--i.e. injury prone--

    Most of us have said that the Sox need to find a new home for Beckett due to his just lack of performance (and idea that he led the Chicken/Beer Brigade and the Collapse of 2011--certainly the poster child for it). Many have talked about CC's albatross to the Sox payroll--105 million left for 5 years--so naturally there was always the talk of jettisoning him. But AGON has been the guy that has been going through a litany of non-baseball related drama--created by both the Sox FO and the media. It started with last year's "god's will" comments, and escalated with this Pesky Funeral and the recent quotes by AGON about not being allowed to just play. But in his case, he's been one of the best hitters in all of MLB, he supposedely was tied to Sox for many years--and I liked that luxury of having a marquee hitter in a lineup that has not been healthy for a long time.

    But here's the real problem. Everyone is celebrating in Boston and cracking champagne bottles like all the ills are gone, and forgetting that part of baseball is luring big-name players or big-name performers to town to help the team win a WS title. Those days are over as of right now. First, the message to Ellsbury and Ortiz is that the Sox don't care about the players, and especially don't care about long-term contracts. Both will leave, whether some of you feel they should is a different thread. I don't think the Sox can survive without Ellsbury and Ortiz in the lineup--especially for 2013. I don't know if they can survive without AGON in the lineup--and no replacement for him. Makes the Youkilis trade all the more disappointing. But bottom line, the Sox have established that if you don't perform as a free agent signing, we'll get rid of you, and EVEN IF YOU PERFORM ON THE FIELD--WE'LL STILL GET RID OF YOU.  There is no security for Sox potential free agents. Thus, as BV said, no one will want to sign in Boston. You will see this as we clamour for SPs out there. It will be bargain basement guys who will sign and that's it. Maybe you want mediocrity in Boston, but I happen to want to see big names...Big names won WS titles for Sox--Schilling, Pedro, Manny, Ortiz--

    What the Sox have created is open payroll but a message that don't come here. It's toxic. The environment is toxic, the free agents don't have security, and the management clearly look out for themselves before the players. Not the the message you want to send to a potential SP who is needed to help the Sox win.....Instead, sure the team will build with young talent, but Pittsburgh, Oakland and Kansas City have done that for years and years and nothing to show for it. The reality is that the Sox are a big-market team acting small market and now showing the rest of MLB that we don't want free agent talent, and we certainly don't want to keep our side of the bargain---forget your security if you are a Sox. Beware of the Sox PR dept and the media. If I was a free agent, no way would I want to be a Sox......That's a bad message to send if you have a goal to win. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    with all that said, danny I think this has as much to do with the opinion Gonzalez and Crawford weren't comfortable here and never would have been. the FO finally recognized it and decide to act on it.  It's an environment you either love or hate, thrive or fail. They have the guaranteed money and are going to an environment better suited for them. Will it give pause to future free agents, who are strictly after the big contract or will they think twice about playing in the big market? Hard too say, may depend how the organization handles things going forward. They need to refocus on the team, as opposed to the brand. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    Danny I agree...  What FA will want to sign here based upon what has been going on.
    I suspect that Ross will not resign here next year, unless it at more MONEY. Which is exactly what many have been railing about.
    I do not see Jake signing here as well, unless it at more MONEY. Which is exactly as stated what many have been railing about.

    The FAs available this year NOT one can replace what CC and Adrian bring to the table.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]with all that said, danny I think this has as much to do with Gonzales and Crawford weren't comfortable here and never would have been. the FO finally recognized it and decide to act on it.  It's an environment you either love or hate, thrive or fail. They have the guaranteed money and are going to environment better suited for them. Will it give pause to future free agents, who are strictly after the big contract or will they think twice about playing in the big market? 
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    word is Gonzalez was a big part of the bad clubhouse - big surprise!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]I completely get, understand, and even in some respects know why the Sox FO did this deal. I think there were multiple factors--with PR/fan appeasement one of them in a last-chance effort by management to show the Sox fans "they do care." But it followed yet another brand of systematic spinning through the media of Beckett and AGON being selfish/me-me guys and CC being out of touch with managers (first Tito and now BV) and out of touch with rehab--i.e. injury prone-- Most of us have said that the Sox need to find a new home for Beckett due to his just lack of performance (and idea that he led the Chicken/Beer Brigade and the Collapse of 2011--certainly the poster child for it). Many have talked about CC's albatross to the Sox payroll--105 million left for 5 years--so naturally there was always the talk of jettisoning him. But AGON has been the guy that has been going through a litany of non-baseball related drama--created by both the Sox FO and the media. It started with last year's "god's will" comments, and escalated with this Pesky Funeral and the recent quotes by AGON about not being allowed to just play. But in his case, he's been one of the best hitters in all of MLB, he supposedely was tied to Sox for many years--and I liked that luxury of having a marquee hitter in a lineup that has not been healthy for a long time. But here's the real problem. Everyone is celebrating in Boston and cracking champagne bottles like all the ills are gone, and forgetting that part of baseball is luring big-name players or big-name performers to town to help the team win a WS title. Those days are over as of right now. First, the message to Ellsbury and Ortiz is that the Sox don't care about the players, and especially don't care about long-term contracts. Both will leave, whether some of you feel they should is a different thread. I don't think the Sox can survive without Ellsbury and Ortiz in the lineup--especially for 2013. I don't know if they can survive without AGON in the lineup--and no replacement for him. Makes the Youkilis trade all the more disappointing. But bottom line, the Sox have established that if you don't perform as a free agent signing, we'll get rid of you, and EVEN IF YOU PERFORM ON THE FIELD--WE'LL STILL GET RID OF YOU.  There is no security for Sox potential free agents. Thus, as BV said, no one will want to sign in Boston. You will see this as we clamour for SPs out there. It will be bargain basement guys who will sign and that's it. Maybe you want mediocrity in Boston, but I happen to want to see big names...Big names won WS titles for Sox--Schilling, Pedro, Manny, Ortiz-- What the Sox have created is open payroll but a message that don't come here. It's toxic. The environment is toxic, the free agents don't have security, and the management clearly look out for themselves before the players. Not the the message you want to send to a potential SP who is needed to help the Sox win.....Instead, sure the team will build with young talent, but Pittsburgh, Oakland and Kansas City have done that for years and years and nothing to show for it. The reality is that the Sox are a big-market team acting small market and now showing the rest of MLB that we don't want free agent talent, and we certainly don't want to keep our side of the bargain---forget your security if you are a Sox. Beware of the Sox PR dept and the media. If I was a free agent, no way would I want to be a Sox......That's a bad message to send if you have a goal to win. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Why is it so hard to get that FA's will go to wherever they get the  most $....They'd play in Antartica if it they got an extra million dollars!!!!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MichFan. Show MichFan's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    Most high priced few agents only care about one thing.  Themselves; ego and $$.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : word is Gonzalez was a big part of the bad clubhouse - big surprise!
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]


    such as, Andrew?? word by whom?? 
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoahJustin. Show NoahJustin's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    The question could also be asked "What message does it send to our current players"? Maybe, play like you want to be here?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]Danny I agree...  What FA will want to sign here based upon what has been going on. I suspect that Ross will not resign here next year, unless it at more MONEY. Which is exactly what many have been railing about. I do not see Jake signing here as well, unless it at more MONEY. Which is exactly as stated what many have been railing about. The FAs available this year NOT one can replace what CC and Adrian bring to the table.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Thank you, Jim. I don't think the fans here are properly looking at the Big Picture. Open Payroll is a great thing to have--but I really do think players won't sign here and have every reason not to sign here--especially once they have conversations at 1b with Gonzalez and talk to CC and talk to Beckett and talk to Shoppach and Youkilis and Papelbon. My guess, everyone of them will tell their friends, who will tell their friends, and so on, and so on. The end result---Boston---LAST PLACE ON EARTH YOU WANT TO PLAY FOR. The fans behavior on this board has been appalling--celebrating getting rid of players--it's certainly a first for MLB fans in my memory. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]The question could also be asked "What message does it send to our current players"? Maybe, play like you want to be here?
    Posted by NoahJustin[/QUOTE]

    Or what? We'll get rid of your contract? So blackmail works? Never will work against the Players Union.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]with all that said, danny I think this has as much to do with the opinion Gonzalez and Crawford weren't comfortable here and never would have been. the FO finally recognized it and decide to act on it.  It's an environment you either love or hate, thrive or fail. They have the guaranteed money and are going to an environment better suited for them. Will it give pause to future free agents, who are strictly after the big contract or will they think twice about playing in the big market? Hard too say, may depend how the organization handles things going forward. They need to refocus on the team, as opposed to the brand. 
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    I hope it was done because the FO finally realized that 1. You cannot bash your way into the playoffs without good pitching and 2. Beckett has seen his best days. Maybe they have learned that much.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : such as, Andrew?? word by whom?? 
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    I was told by a member of the media that it is possible that AGON demanded a trade, but even if he did---no way do I deal him. That's the other luxury of a long contract...Manny wanted out 2 years in, and instead we won 2 WS titles because a great hitter had to settle for the fact that Boston was his home. AGON was in a similar situation. Don't like it? Tough!!!!!! Play here. Instead, it's now "Don't like it?" ...OK, we'll adhere to your wishes...pathetic.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]I don't think this trade will discourage free agents from signing with the Red Sox. Lowball offers are the only thing that would deter free agents from coming to Boston.
    Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE]

    In fact, I think it will Dave. I disagree with Andrew's take that they will go where the extra million is offered. Players look for security as much as the bottom line $ amount. This trade shows that there is no security in Boston.

    I fully understand moving Beckett and Crawford, but the Gonzalez trade last year was the focal point of Boston's off season moves. They allowed Martinez to leave. They moved a GG 1B in Youk, and then him not being able to handle the move back to 3B, gets traded; Beltre, whom I believed to be their best player long gone and less than two years later trade Gonzalez. I think the Sox are sending the wrong signal to future F.A.'s.

    One thing is for sure, Yankee fans are celebrating this trade as well.



     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]Utter and complete nonsense!  Did the decision to not resign Clemens, Pedro, Damon or Lowe prevent Lugo, Dice, Drew, Adrain or CC from signing? Not hold up their end of the bargain?  Did the checks bounce?  It was the players performance on the field and attitude off the field that failed to hold up the bargain. The goal is to win.  Grossly overpaying for pampered underachievers is not the way to do it.  The Sox are not going to become the Padres or the Royals.  This is about restoring a balanced approach to building a winner. 
    Posted by Encinitas[/QUOTE]

    eaxactly what he said!  +1
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    What does this say to Ross & Ortiz ? No way they are returning next season. Be prepared for multiple dark years for the Red Sox.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]Utter and complete nonsense!  Did the decision to not resign Clemens, Pedro, Damon or Lowe prevent Lugo, Dice, Drew, Adrain or CC from signing? Not hold up their end of the bargain?  Did the checks bounce?  It was the players performance on the field and attitude off the field that failed to hold up the bargain. The goal is to win.  Grossly overpaying for pampered underachievers is not the way to do it.  The Sox are not going to become the Padres or the Royals.  This is about restoring a balanced approach to building a winner. 
    Posted by Encinitas[/QUOTE]

    But did they really need to trade their best hitter?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]What does this say to Ross & Ortiz ? No way they are returning next season. Be prepared for multiple dark years for the Red Sox.
    Posted by jpBsSoxFan[/QUOTE]

    Papi looked miserable last night, at the plate and during the post game interview. I think he'll be the next player, to head for the hills. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : such as, Andrew?? word by whom?? 
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]


    Dan S.........on the radio now.....
     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]Utter and complete nonsense!  Did the decision to not resign Clemens, Pedro, Damon or Lowe prevent Lugo, Dice, Drew, Adrain or CC from signing? Not hold up their end of the bargain?  Did the checks bounce?  It was the players performance on the field and attitude off the field that failed to hold up the bargain. The goal is to win.  Grossly overpaying for pampered underachievers is not the way to do it.  The Sox are not going to become the Padres or the Royals.  This is about restoring a balanced approach to building a winner. 
    Posted by Encinitas[/QUOTE]
    Have to disagree, they will be worse than the Padres & Royals, especially after Ortiz & Ross walk after this season.
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : Dan S.........on the radio now.....
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]


    nuff said...
     

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