Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : eaxactly what he said!  +1
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    +2; however, I thought CC played pretty well this yr, and with a bad elbow.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : Have to disagree, they will be worse than the Padres & Royals, especially after Ortiz & Ross walk after this season.
    Posted by jpBsSoxFan[/QUOTE]

    I didn't even include Ross in the equation of guys walking out. This is fantasy to think the Sox can mend the bad image it created. It's Toxic around here, and now it's toxic with agendas. Don't like it here-you're gone!!! But in baseball, I've seen that the guys who might be uncomfortable--find that winning gets you comfortable---Manny  is a great example of a player who had many reservations about the Fish Bowl, but adhered to his contract and played well. AGON was certainly earning his contract whether he was a good fit or not...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    If we didn't make this deal, some FAs might still have been skeptical or demand no trade clauses.

    Both Beckett and CC wanted out, so there is no message being sent there, except a good one: if you want out, we will accomodate you. The AGon deal is messier and not a great message to send to future FAs, however, I am pretty sure that 95%+++ of all free agents will take the top dollar offer, or at least an offer within $1M a year.

    Also, we may not care for a year or two. We may not even seek out Hamilton, Greinke of Montero. (Napoli or Peavy if the CWS don't take his $22M option)
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    If the team is 50-70 after 120 next year, which is entirely possible, what player under contract complains to management---and then is also jettisoned....?
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    Wow, a lot of fans really think players will come to Boston....amazing. Even at a high contract, a player would take 15 mil and 2 years in Detroit over 20 mil and 2 years in Boston...the extra 5 mil isn't worth having to deal with Circus Henry
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    Sox will lose every bidding war, that is certainty. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : nuff said...
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    he cited specific examples of his first hand experience so I think he knows what he's talking about
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : he cited specific examples of his first hand experience so I think he knows what he's talking about
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]


    such as??
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]Wow, a lot of fans really think players will come to Boston....amazing. Even at a high contract, a player would take 15 mil and 2 years in Detroit over 20 mil and 2 years in Boston...the extra 5 mil isn't worth having to deal with Circus Henry
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Do you hibernate during the off-season?  99.99% of the time a guy will take a deal even if it is only marginally more..........you do realize the delta in your example is $10 million dollars or 33% more from 2/30 vs 2/40 - that's a NO BRAINER and I have never seen that scenario play out how you've outlined it - never.  33%?  That'd be like Albert taking the 250 and leaving 333 on the table!!!!

    Stop worrying about Free Agents.  It will be about the money.  If not, remember 2 things

    1 - this is a different culture NOW

    and

    2  -  if they don't want to be here then why would you want them?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from modod. Show modod's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In response to "Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : nuff said... Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE] +1. While some portray Gonzalez as "weak" for his alleged complaint about the writers not wanting to talk baseball, I think it shows the media's contribution to a toxic environment. Gonzalez has always been a quiet individual, allowing his playing to speak for him and be an example to teammates. And I find it telling the number of posts that bash his offense this year as not worthy of his contract and completely ignoring last year and especially his contributions on defense. How many times has he saved throwing errors with his ability to scoop throws out of the dirt? Unique, no, but enough for a Gold Glove last year. And on another thread someone is trying to tell us that Loney is the best 1st baseman since George Scott. Umm Youk was pretty good as is Gonzalez.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : such as??
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    I'm not going to recite it for you but he talked about occassions where he tried to interview him about baseball and asked baseball questions and Gonzalez was extremely defensive claiming the questions weren't about baseball - they clearly were.........He said he rubbed his teammates the wrong way by being a know it all and very arrogant..........there was also talk (not directly related) where Gonzo was part of collapses on 3 or 4 separate occassions and that he will never be a leader.......
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents": +1. While some portray Gonzalez as "weak" for his alleged complaint about the writers not wanting to talk baseball, I think it shows the media's contribution to a toxic environment. Gonzalez has always been a quiet individual, allowing his playing to speak for him and be an example to teammates. And I find it telling the number of posts that bash his offense this year as not worthy of his contract and completely ignoring last year and especially his contributions on defense. How many times has he saved throwing errors with his ability to scoop throws out of the dirt? Unique, no, but enough for a Gold Glove last year. And on another thread someone is trying to tell us that Loney is the best 1st baseman since George Scott. Umm Youk was pretty good as is Gonzalez.
    Posted by modod[/QUOTE]

    I'll miss AG's glove but that's about it......
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : I didn't even include Ross in the equation of guys walking out. This is fantasy to think the Sox can mend the bad image it created. It's Toxic around here, and now it's toxic with agendas. Don't like it here-you're gone!!! But in baseball, I've seen that the guys who might be uncomfortable--find that winning gets you comfortable---Manny  is a great example of a player who had many reservations about the Fish Bowl, but adhered to his contract and played well. AGON was certainly earning his contract whether he was a good fit or not...
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Ross has to look at Fenways as part of the reason his value climbed so high with his highest career OPS.  (.975 at home/.700 away). he might be one who takes less to play here, but we can afford to keep him anyways at top dollar.

    For argument's sake, let's look at one possible scenario:

    1) sign Montero, Marcum, and Ross. (Forget about Hamilton & Greinke)
    2) trade Doubront, Salty, Melancon, and Cecchini for Justin Upton.
    3) trade Lava, Aviles,Sweeney, Brentz, & ranaudo for J. Shields.
    (We could even throw in some of the Dodger prospects.)

    We'd have this:

    1) Ellsbury  CF
    2) Pedroia   2B
    3) Upton      RF
    4) Montero  1B
    5) Midd/Ross (vR/L) 3B/DH-LF
    6) Ross/Midd (vR/L) DH-LF/3B
    7) Gomez/Shaw/bridge FA 1 yr deal (1B-DH)
    8) Nava/Linares/Bradley/bridge FA like Pods (LF)
    9) Ciriaco/Iggy (SS)

    SP) Shields, Buch, Lest, Lack, Mor, Doub, Mort, Taz, Stew...
    RP) Bailey, Aceves, Bres, Miller, Atch, Hill, Bard, Melan, (see starters)

    You really think this team is worse than 2012's?  And, this is just spending a small fraction of what is available, and we still have Bradley, Bogaerts, and Barnes!


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : I'm not going to recite it for you but he talked about occassions where he tried to interview him about baseball and asked baseball questions and Gonzalez was extremely defensive claiming the questions weren't about baseball - they clearly were.........He said he rubbed his teammates the wrong way by being a know it all and very arrogant..........there was also talk (not directly related) where Gonzo was part of collapses on 3 or 4 separate occassions and that he will never be a leader.......
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    sounds like a self serving opinion and vendetta, Andrew. He never reported that before. The media doesnt like you, you dont stand a chance in Boston, especially when your heading out the door

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : sounds like a self serving opinion and vendetta, Andrew. not surprsied, that Dans MO
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    well, you need to listen for yourself and make your own judgement

    my take was it confirmed some of my suspsicions

    look, the truth will come out now over time

    we can revist this then
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : well, you need to listen for yourself and make your own judgement my take was it confirmed some of my suspsicions look, the truth will come out now over time we can revist this then
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    he never reported it before now. easy to do when the guys gone and you dont have to face him again, isnt it?? Is it any wonder players want out??
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    All you guys who think that FAs are not going to come here are going to be singing a different tune when the shopping begins. Maybe not next year, but it WILL happen. All the money saved by shedding those bad contracts is not going to sit in Henry's wallet.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : Papi looked miserable last night, at the plate and during the post game interview. I think he'll be the next player, to head for the hills. 
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    If you are planning on a youth movement and for 2015, Papi leaving is not a bad thing. More money saved for pitching.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]I completely get, understand, and even in some respects know why the Sox FO did this deal. I think there were multiple factors--with PR/fan appeasement one of them in a last-chance effort by management to show the Sox fans "they do care." But it followed yet another brand of systematic spinning through the media of Beckett and AGON being selfish/me-me guys and CC being out of touch with managers (first Tito and now BV) and out of touch with rehab--i.e. injury prone-- Most of us have said that the Sox need to find a new home for Beckett due to his just lack of performance (and idea that he led the Chicken/Beer Brigade and the Collapse of 2011--certainly the poster child for it). Many have talked about CC's albatross to the Sox payroll--105 million left for 5 years--so naturally there was always the talk of jettisoning him. But AGON has been the guy that has been going through a litany of non-baseball related drama--created by both the Sox FO and the media. It started with last year's "god's will" comments, and escalated with this Pesky Funeral and the recent quotes by AGON about not being allowed to just play. But in his case, he's been one of the best hitters in all of MLB, he supposedely was tied to Sox for many years--and I liked that luxury of having a marquee hitter in a lineup that has not been healthy for a long time. But here's the real problem. Everyone is celebrating in Boston and cracking champagne bottles like all the ills are gone, and forgetting that part of baseball is luring big-name players or big-name performers to town to help the team win a WS title. Those days are over as of right now. First, the message to Ellsbury and Ortiz is that the Sox don't care about the players, and especially don't care about long-term contracts. Both will leave, whether some of you feel they should is a different thread. I don't think the Sox can survive without Ellsbury and Ortiz in the lineup--especially for 2013. I don't know if they can survive without AGON in the lineup--and no replacement for him. Makes the Youkilis trade all the more disappointing. But bottom line, the Sox have established that if you don't perform as a free agent signing, we'll get rid of you, and EVEN IF YOU PERFORM ON THE FIELD--WE'LL STILL GET RID OF YOU.  There is no security for Sox potential free agents. Thus, as BV said, no one will want to sign in Boston. You will see this as we clamour for SPs out there. It will be bargain basement guys who will sign and that's it. Maybe you want mediocrity in Boston, but I happen to want to see big names...Big names won WS titles for Sox--Schilling, Pedro, Manny, Ortiz-- What the Sox have created is open payroll but a message that don't come here. It's toxic. The environment is toxic, the free agents don't have security, and the management clearly look out for themselves before the players. Not the the message you want to send to a potential SP who is needed to help the Sox win.....Instead, sure the team will build with young talent, but Pittsburgh, Oakland and Kansas City have done that for years and years and nothing to show for it. The reality is that the Sox are a big-market team acting small market and now showing the rest of MLB that we don't want free agent talent, and we certainly don't want to keep our side of the bargain---forget your security if you are a Sox. Beware of the Sox PR dept and the media. If I was a free agent, no way would I want to be a Sox......That's a bad message to send if you have a goal to win. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    FA's didn't want to come here because we had such a "knowledgeable fans" that are often as caustic as supportive.  The Boston media is so screwed up that they think crucifying the best players is the top mission.  FA's know the pressure that is Boston.

    Your post is powerfully made, Danny, especially against the other background. 

    We gave up offense with no one to replace it. Check.

    We have financial flexibility .... and prospects. 

    But how does that help the in game situation?

    Heck, when Papi went down, the season went in the hopper. Remove Adrian too and all of a sudden we have no punch.


    Now, with the poor way the management has handled Tito and the players, what kind of support can anyone expect?


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents : he never reported it before now. easy to do when the guys gone and you dont have to face him again, isnt it?? Is it any wonder players want out??
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    but why would he talk trash about him if he still had to try and work w/ him?

    it's like this everywhere.........and players do not want "IN" or "OUT" - players want the MONEY$$$$$$$$$

    when I negotiate deals for myself it is always about the money.  why?  because it is the only thing I can control.  Perks and working arrangements can ALWAYS be changed.  Salary can not.  So I negotiate the MONEY ONLY and I assume that the job will come with no benefits, no perks, no bonuses, no special arrangements and even that I will hate my boss (or they will change them on me) and all of my co-workers.......because really at the end of the day, it's about paying my bills and guess what?  I get to go home every night.....................
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    In Response to Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents:
    [QUOTE]Good riddance to Gonzalez the whining and crying, gutless rat. _________________________________ Curt Schilling Deadbeat Fraud Clown
    Posted by bellhorn_[/QUOTE]

    you make softy sound reasonable
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthomas43. Show mthomas43's posts

    Re: Deal Might Be Right Move, But Sends Wrong Message To Future Free Agents

    Money talks.
     

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