Defending the Indefensible!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Defending the Indefensible!

    While reading all the threads about who should stay up and who should go down, who should start and who should be in the BP, one thing is clear, I have yet to read any posts opposed to what young Ben has decided to do in preparation for opening day.
    Clearly, at least to me anyway, both Iglesias and Lavarnway should be on the 25 man roster. Iggy's glove and lav's bat does not help us in Pawtuckett. And as far as our pitching is concerned, starting Bard in favor of Cook is not a good idea. Now I don't know if that was Bobby's decision or not, but based on Bard's starts in ST, he needs to be back in the pen, but I think all along, the plan was to have him start, regardless of his ST, and that decision was made before Bobby was hired.
    The trade for Bailey is also turning out to be a bad decision. We knew that Bailey had an injury history, and I suppose it's a saving Grace for Ben because we will not know, at least for a while, if he will be effective or not. That does leave us, however, with a hole at closer, and Melancon has not shown he can fill that role.
    Other than signing Cody Ross, I think every move that clueless Ben has made, has been and will be for the worse. I just hope that BV will eventually challenge this wet-behind-the-ears punk and put him in his place.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 6k42lt913c. Show 6k42lt913c's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    There have been at least two hundred posts that I have read where people want Lavarnway and/ or Iglesias on the 25 man roster. Have you been reading the threads? The medical records of Bailey's were studied closely before that trade was finalized.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible!:
    There have been at least two hundred posts that I have read where people want Lavarnway and/ or Iglesias on the 25 man roster. Have you been reading the threads? The medical records of Bailey's were studied closely before that trade was finalized.
    Posted by 6k42lt913c


    But none have criticized the GM directly. Let's face it, it's Ben that is making these decisions, and he should be called out for it.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NHBALLFAN. Show NHBALLFAN's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible!:
    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible! : But none have criticized the GM directly. Let's face it, it's Ben that is making these decisions, and he should be called out for it.
    Posted by Alibiike
     Don't worry. Smiley's on it. We'll be hearing from him soon.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    Thanks Albi......  Your making my point/s !!!!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    As far as Bailey goes the RS got him for a Reddick because the injury history.

    The Iggy argument is one I don't get personally, the kid can't hit yet. I have less issue than some with Lavanway getting to play every day in AAA to start the season either.

    The Bard experiment to me is a head scratcher. The team's best reliever is being converted to be the team's 5th starter and I just don't see his ceiling being higher than a so-so #5, he doesn't have enough variety in repertoire.

    Ben Cherington for the moment gets a hall pass. The RS for 2012 were very handcuffed in terms of flexibility due to having over $30M in pitching on the DL and while he may have been 100% behind it, Theo Epstein and not been owns the Crawford signing.
     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible!:
    The Iggy and Lavarnway decisions are complex. Both management and the fans have valid differences of opinion. Disagreeing with Cherrington doesn't mean that he should be lynched. The goals of the FO may be more long term and financial than those of the impatient fan. Why get so incensed by different goals and means to achieve them?
    Posted by Firefligh2008


    Complexity is not in Alibi's bag of tricks.  Black and white are the colors of his flag.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible!:
    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible! : Complexity is not in Alibi's bag of tricks.  Black and white are the colors of his flag.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    As it should be....no gray areas!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible!:
    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible! : As it should be....no gray areas!
    Posted by Alibiike


     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible!:
    As far as Bailey goes the RS got him for a Reddick because the injury history. The Iggy argument is one I don't get personally, the kid can't hit yet. I have less issue than some with Lavanway getting to play every day in AAA to start the season either. The Bard experiment to me is a head scratcher. The team's best reliever is being converted to be the team's 5th starter and I just don't see his ceiling being higher than a so-so #5, he doesn't have enough variety in repertoire. Ben Cherington for the moment gets a hall pass. The RS for 2012 were very handcuffed in terms of flexibility due to having over $30M in pitching on the DL and while he may have been 100% behind it, Theo Epstein and not been owns the Crawford signing.
    Posted by fivekatz



    Katz,
    If you truly believe that Bard's ceiling is a so-so #5, then the decision to put him into the rotation IS a head scratcher.  But some believe he may have the best arm on the staff.  And therefore, for them, it is not a head scratcher.  You would rather get 150 - 180 innings out of that arm than 75.  Once Bailey and Melancon were added, it made sense to give Bard a starting job.  Now that Bailey is injured (yet again) it looks bad.  But that is 20/20 hindsight. 

    I like what Chad Finn had to say about it.  Bard, no matter what he does, will be better than Lackey was last season, since Lackey was the worst starter in Red Sox history, ever!  What I hope they don't do is put Aceves in the rotation.  He should close while Bailey is out, and Cook should be the #6 man/Beckett fill-in.  He's earned it with his spring, and he has shown the ability in the past when healthy.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    As for Lavarnway and Iglesias.  Agree on Lavarnway.  He should be up with the big club hitting 2 out of 3 days, and catching half time.  Trade Salty for a potential closer, or trade Shoppach if he has value.

    But Iggy?  He has not proven he can hit ML pitching.  If he had had a good spring, your argument that he should start would carry some weight, but Aviles is better than folks here seem to think.  In every way he is an upgrade over Scutaro.  And he buys a year for Iggy to develop at AAA.  That was the plan all along.  The question is, whether Boegarts will blossom at AA and prove he is a good fielder, as the scouting reports propose he will become.  There seems little doubt as to his offensive ceiling being well above Iggy's.  If he shows he is the fielder some project, he will be the 2013 SS, not Iggy, IMO. That is why he ranks above Iggy on the list of top Red Sox Prospects.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    IF he's not going to be the every day SS, Iggy most definitely should start the year in Pawtucket. Does him no good to sit in the dugout scratching  himself.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In response to "Re: Defending the Indefensible!":
    As for Lavarnway and Iglesias.  Agree on Lavarnway.  He should be up with the big club hitting 2 out of 3 days, and catching half time.  Trade Salty for a potential closer, or trade Shoppach if he has value. But Iggy?  He has not proven he can hit ML pitching.  If he had had a good spring, your argument that he should start would carry some weight, but Aviles is better than folks here seem to think.  In every way he is an upgrade over Scutaro.  And he buys a year for Iggy to develop at AAA.  That was the plan all along.  The question is, whether Boegarts will blossom at AA and prove he is a good fielder, as the scouting reports propose he will become.  There seems little doubt as to his offensive ceiling being well above Iggy's.  If he shows he is the fielder some project, he will be the 2013 SS, not Iggy, IMO. That is why he ranks above Iggy on the list of top Red Sox Prospects. Posted by parhunter55
    Parhunter, even if you think Lav should be the starter, do you really think it would be wise to trade Shoppach or Salty, which would leave the Sox with only one catcher in the entire organization with Major League catching experience?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    Defending the indefensible!

    or, as the OP reveals:

    Indefending the easily defensible!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    I find it makes my life easier if I sometimes assume that the people paid to do this kind of job, like Cherington, know what they're doing.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible!:
    I find it makes my life easier if I sometimes assume that the people paid to do this kind of job, like Cherington, know what they're doing.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut


    Crazy notion.  So crazy that it just might work.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    Plenty to get on GM Ben C. about, but Iggy & Lava are not nec. the big problems.  These moves do make sound baseball sense.

    Iggy.....  CAN'T HIT!  There's NO getting around this.  I LOVE his glove, but please!  He would get eaten alive in Fenway every time he killed a key rally!  HE'S CLEARLY not ready, even though he is CLEARLY the best fielding SS in the organization. 

    Lava.....  I would have loved to see this kid get a shot as our starting catcher.  His D, & arm are still suspect though, so the decision does make baseball sense.  I hope Salty will rip the cover off the ball, but I suspect that his lack of discipline will show itself pretty quickly as the starting catcher.  His arm will likely cost us with respect to holding runners on 1st, but Lava has the same problem.

    Having said this, the kid can obviously hit, which will likely become a factor in a relatively quick call up???  I hope!  Since they were def. going with Salty as the starting catcher, it made sense to keep Lava in Pawtucket where he would get regular playing time.

    Ben C......   Other than Ross, these pick ups appear to be a total disaster!  Especially with respect to the TRAIN WRECK with Bailey.  Very funny stuff on Felger & Mazz on the "thumbs up their Arssses" "situations" with Bailey & Beckett.    :)   :)
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In Response to Defending the Indefensible!:
    While reading all the threads about who should stay up and who should go down, who should start and who should be in the BP, one thing is clear, I have yet to read any posts opposed to what young Ben has decided to do in preparation for opening day. Clearly, at least to me anyway, both Iglesias and Lavarnway should be on the 25 man roster. Iggy's glove and lav's bat does not help us in Pawtuckett. And as far as our pitching is concerned, starting Bard in favor of Cook is not a good idea. Now I don't know if that was Bobby's decision or not, but based on Bard's starts in ST, he needs to be back in the pen, but I think all along, the plan was to have him start, regardless of his ST, and that decision was made before Bobby was hired. The trade for Bailey is also turning out to be a bad decision. We knew that Bailey had an injury history, and I suppose it's a saving Grace for Ben because we will not know, at least for a while, if he will be effective or not. That does leave us, however, with a hole at closer, and Melancon has not shown he can fill that role. Other than signing Cody Ross, I think every move that clueless Ben has made, has been and will be for the worse. I just hope that BV will eventually challenge this wet-behind-the-ears punk and put him in his place.
    Posted by Alibiike


    iggys glove serves no purpose if his bat doesn't get better... while i cant argue that lava shouldn't be on the 25 man because he is MLB ready unlike iggy... We gave up nobody of importance to trade for bailey so him being injured doesn't make it a bad trade because we got him for space parts. Cook will get the starting nod as soon as he gets some more innings thus pushing bard back to the BP where he belongs.

    ben is not clueless, the owners clenched the purse strings and said make due with what you have and this is it. we really won't know how good ben is until the season is over and we can see how his decisions panned out. ATM no games have been played so saying he is a failure is just ignorant.....
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    Ben C., Moneyball baseball ops. philosophy of the GM position takes yet another shot!  Does the "Moneyball" philosophy of putting a team together really work???  I think NOT!  At least Bobby V. seems to get that!

    BASEBALL AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE!  My apologies to guys like Moon & _______, reading stat lines does not make you a good GM.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible!:
    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible! : Katz, If you truly believe that Bard's ceiling is a so-so #5, then the decision to put him into the rotation IS a head scratcher.  But some believe he may have the best arm on the staff.  And therefore, for them, it is not a head scratcher.  You would rather get 150 - 180 innings out of that arm than 75.  Once Bailey and Melancon were added, it made sense to give Bard a starting job.  Now that Bailey is injured (yet again) it looks bad.  But that is 20/20 hindsight.  I like what Chad Finn had to say about it.  Bard, no matter what he does, will be better than Lackey was last season, since Lackey was the worst starter in Red Sox history, ever!  What I hope they don't do is put Aceves in the rotation.  He should close while Bailey is out, and Cook should be the #6 man/Beckett fill-in.  He's earned it with his spring, and he has shown the ability in the past when healthy.
    Posted by parhunter55
    Good views and they obviously reflect the evaluation the RS made to some extent.

    I don't really think being better than Lackey was last year is much comfort OTOH. I am far from as astute a talent evaluators as the pros who work for the RS but Bard basically has two pitches and last started a game before this spring in 2007 at the A level. Since the age of 19 he never pitched more than 101 IP in a season.

    My take is that BPs are insanely important in the pitch count era. Yes replacing Lackey's 2011 should not be hard. But replacing Papelbon and Bard's 2011 will be. Bard was down right filthy with inherited runners and if one dismisses his and Papelbon's final appearances during the death spiral, the pair effectively made most games 7 inning affairs. 

    I hope I am wrong but I just don't think this was a really great move. IMHO it is inspired by an lack of starting pitching in the system that is anywhere near close to MLB-AL East ready and a lack of budget due to injuries to Lackey and Dice K and the until proven otherwise terrible Crawford contract.

    I'd love to be wrong about this BTW and hope I am.

     
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible!:
    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible! : But none have criticized the GM directly. Let's face it, it's Ben that is making these decisions, and he should be called out for it.
    Posted by Alibiike


      I have been saying all along, that the rookies would start down at Pawtucket. IMO this is coming from the top, the Sox are operating like the dregs of baseball, this move could give them an extra year before either can hit FA.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    In Response to Re: Defending the Indefensible!:
    In response to "Re: Defending the Indefensible!": Parhunter, even if you think Lav should be the starter, do you really think it would be wise to trade Shoppach or Salty, which would leave the Sox with only one catcher in the entire organization with Major League catching experience?
    Posted by jasko2248



    Probably not.  But the need in the pen is such that taking that risk might be worthwhile, especially if the FO thinks Exposito could fill in in case of injury, or they can sign a veteran on a minor league deal (there are several still out there to be had, I believe). 

    The problem is that Shoppach has no options that I know of, and demoting Salty at this time does him no good, nor does it do the team much good, IMO.  I'd rather see the sox get a good reliever for him and get the veteran backup when and if needed.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Defending the Indefensible!

    Whatever happens from here on out with Bailey's health, I don't understand the opposition to the trade itself. Wasn't one of the biggest knocks on Theo supposed to be that he wouldn't trade his prospects for established stars who could help the big-league club? 

    An inconsistent semi-prospect and a couple of 20-year-olds (who might turn out to be something, or might never be heard from again) for an All-Star closer and a decent outfielder. Seems a more than fair gamble to me. In light of recent news about Bailey, I hope people don't start going back with the benefit of hindsight and pretending they were against the trade from the start.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share