Defense, defense

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    Defense, defense

    Both Aviles and Middlebrooks made plays today because they were perfectly positioned. Valentine/Bogar/Royster are doing their homework. This element of the game -- an important one -- is vastly improved over last year.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    And the fundamentals?

    OF'ers throwing to wrong bases, not hitting cut off men

    Pitchers out of position for plays to 3b or home

    1B not part of any relay play to home

    What about that?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]And the fundamentals? OF'ers throwing to wrong bases, not hitting cut off men Pitchers out of position for plays to 3b or home 1B not part of any relay play to home What about that?
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Nava threw to the wrong base, his first mental mistake. The first baseman is a cut-off man and typically is right there.
    Since you used the plural, give many specific examples of these mistakes. The Ofers have consistently thrown to the right base. The relay play has been executed textbook several times. 
    What about it?
    Some people look through a glass darkly. You don't see through it at all. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    given Crawford isn't playing this year the OF'ers have generally thrown to the correct base except for Nava today

    I have yet to see Gonzo be part of the relays to home

    And I have never seen Lester or Beckett properly back up a base

    That's enough for me to say they lack fundamentals in the field - it's a team effort and you are only as good as your weakest link

    (you should stick to the facts instead of trying to demean)
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Defense, defense : Nava threw to the wrong base, his first mental mistake. The first baseman is a cut-off man and typically is right there. Since you used the plural, give many specific examples of these mistakes. The Ofers have consistently thrown to the right base. The relay play has been executed textbook several times.  What about it? Some people look through a glass darkly. You don't see through it at all. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    I agree with ExP the fundamentals have been better.  Nava and Middlebrooks screwed up that play, but of course they are new to the bigs still.  Remember what Boggs was like when he first came up compared to how solid his D became a few years later. 

    After about 5 years of poor 3rd base coaching I can't remember a mistake yet.

    Beckett may be a lost cause,but he made a nice catch.  Lester has been poor for a while on fielding bunts and dribllers.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]given Crawford isn't playing this year the OF'ers have generally thrown to the correct base except for Nava today I have yet to see Gonzo be part of the relays to home And I have never seen Lester or Beckett properly back up a base That's enough for me to say they lack fundamentals in the field - it's a team effort and you are only as good as your weakest link (you should stick to the facts instead of trying to demean)
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]The first baseman does not relay throws to home. He either cuts off the throw or lets it go, depending upon the call for the catcher. Gonzo is correctly positioned. You must learn the fundamentals before you are allowed to comment on them. "Never" seen Lester or Beckett back up a base. You must be preparing your next dolorous post while the game is going on. Never. Ridiculous. 
    You demean people. Gotta take what you dish out. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    After about 5 years of poor 3rd base coaching I can't remember a mistake yet.

    I've mentioned that before.  For years, Manny knew more about baserunning than our 3B coach.

    IRT this year's team, it's weaker defensively, but it remains to be seen how much of that is due to CC and Ells being out.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]After about 5 years of poor 3rd base coaching I can't remember a mistake yet. I've mentioned that before.  For years, Manny knew more about baserunning than our 3B coach. IRT this year's team, it's weaker defensively, but it remains to be seen how much of that is due to CC and Ells being out.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]
    The defense in LF has generally been better this year than last with Crawford out there. 
    CF was better last year. The other positions look as good or better -- decidedly behind the plate. Have you been watching Sweeney and Aviles?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Defense, defense : The first baseman does not relay throws to home. He either cuts off the throw or lets it go, depending upon the call for the catcher. Gonzo is correctly positioned. You must learn the fundamentals before you are allowed to comment on them. "Never" seen Lester or Beckett back up a base. You must be preparing your next dolorous post while the game is going on. Never. Ridiculous.  You demean people. Gotta take what you dish out. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    He can't. The more you challenge his ridiculous posts, he'll eventually put you on ignore because he can't stand the heat.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Defense, defense : The first baseman does not relay throws to home. He either cuts off the throw or lets it go, depending upon the call for the catcher. Gonzo is correctly positioned. You must learn the fundamentals before you are allowed to comment on them. "Never" seen Lester or Beckett back up a base. You must be preparing your next dolorous post while the game is going on. Never. Ridiculous.  You demean people. Gotta take what you dish out. 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    The 1b is supposed to be positioned in front of the catcher to cut off the throws, correct.  You are right, they (1B) wouldn't throw to home.  I never said that the 1b would throw to home.  Problem is Gonzo doesn't do that.

    I have never seen Beckett or Lester back up a base this year.

    I'm not demeaning you. My original response was pretty cut and dry and then you kinda lashed out.  No big deal.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    anyways, the defense in general is good but the pitchers are not helping w/ their gloves at all, that's a certainty........
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    Beckett also missed covering 1B today on a nice play made by Papi.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Defense, defense : The 1b is supposed to be positioned in front of the catcher to cut off the throws, correct.  You are right, they (1B) wouldn't throw to home.  I never said that the 1b would throw to home.  Problem is Gonzo doesn't do that. I have never seen Beckett or Lester back up a base this year. I'm not demeaning you. My original response was pretty cut and dry and then you kinda lashed out.  No big deal.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Right in front of the catcher? How far up in the triangle of the baseline, the mound, and the plate? Just out of curiosity, just where do you see Gonzo on throws from right to the plate? If he isn't where you think he's supposed to be, where is he?
    You demean players. They are people too.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    I said many times, b/t 10-15' in directly in front of the plate, aligned w/ the mound.......I don't "demean" players, I critcize them for not doing their job - and I am not talking about something that requires skill like getting on base - I am talking about showing a little hustle and using your brain........Big difference......
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mjnmjn. Show mjnmjn's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In general, the defense is better this year, but not in the OF. Ross screwed up the catch the other day allowing the winning  run to score. Byrd is an adventure on any fly or line drive. We miss Ells a lot. The IF is in pretty good shape (overall) the Sox are 2nd in the AL (I believe) in Fielding %. And by the way, all of the posters who took shots at the idea of Big Papi in the HOF because of his fielding, I hope you were watching yesterday's game. He may not be a legit candidate for the HOF, but it isn't because of his fielding.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]I said many times, b/t 10-15' in directly in front of the plate, aligned w/ the mound.......I don't "demean" players, I critcize them for not doing their job - and I am not talking about something that requires skill like getting on base - I am talking about showing a little hustle and using your brain........Big difference......
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE
    No cut-off man plays directly in front of the plate. He plays between the mound and the baseline. That is where Gonzo lines up. Where do you "see" him?
    You criticize according to your judgment, which, shall we say, is not always flawless. Who on the Sox is not hustling?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    "No cut-off man plays directly in front of the plate"

    No kidding?  Where did I say that is where they should be positioned?  I have said quite clearly that IS where the pitchers ARE lining-up and that is exactly where they should NOT be......they should be well behind the bases they are backing up - either 3b or home.....(a lot of times pitchers, not the Sox, get right behind the catcher - how is that backing up?  if he gets by the catcher and you are 5' behind him, chances are it will get past you too)....

    As I said, I do not see Gonzo - which means he is not lining himself up w/ the throws....As you indicated, for RF or LF he should be on the base line about even w/ the mound........but I do not see him there.  It is possible I am missing him but I don't think so since the camera picks up the throws and it should cross him. 

    Who doesn't hustle?  Really?  Do we even need to go through this?  AG does not run down the line.  About a week ago he nearly got thrown out on a double b/c he refused to slide.  Beckett hit a long single yesterday b/c he watched the ball as he practically walked down the line.  And then JB didn't get over to cover 1b.  Plus, as I said, the pitchers do not HUSTLE to back up bases.  Often times JL just stands around the mound as plays unfold because he allows his anger to get the best of him.

    Again, the defense is good in terms of making the plays but their team fundamentals are incomplete and the pitchers are just terrible in the field.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]"No cut-off man plays directly in front of the plate" No kidding?  Where did I say that is where they should be positioned?  I have said quite clearly that IS where the pitchers ARE lining-up and that is exactly where they should NOT be......they should be well behind the bases they are backing up - either 3b or home.....(a lot of times pitchers, not the Sox, get right behind the catcher - how is that backing up?  if he gets by the catcher and you are 5' behind him, chances are it will get past you too).... As I said, I do not see Gonzo - which means he is not lining himself up w/ the throws....As you indicated, for RF or LF he should be on the base line about even w/ the mound........but I do not see him there.  It is possible I am missing him but I don't think so since the camera picks up the throws and it should cross him.  Who doesn't hustle?  Really?  Do we even need to go through this?  AG does not run down the line.  About a week ago he nearly got thrown out on a double b/c he refused to slide.  Beckett hit a long single yesterday b/c he watched the ball as he practically walked down the line.  And then JB didn't get over to cover 1b.  Plus, as I said, the pitchers do not HUSTLE to back up bases.  Often times JL just stands around the mound as plays unfold because he allows his anger to get the best of him. Again, the defense is good in terms of making the plays but their team fundamentals are incomplete and the pitchers are just terrible in the field.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Quote: "10'-15' directly in front of the plate."
    Beckett explained why he didn't go for two. Pay attention.
    Agon was safe at second. Almost doesn't count.
    Beckett was slow covering first.
    It's possible, just possible, that you don't see everything -- or that you see only what you want to see. All the pitchers all the time do not hustle to back up bases? They could be better fielders, but that is another matter. Oh, Beckett started a nice DP yesterday and caught a pop-up that Salty lost in the sun. See, you don't see everything -- or choose to ignore it. 
    The Sox are playing good fundamental baseball. Perhaps you don't know what to look for.
    I "see" no lack of hustle on this team.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Defense, defense : Quote: "10'-15' directly in front of the plate." Beckett explained why he didn't go for two. Pay attention. Agon was safe at second. Almost doesn't count. Beckett was slow covering first. It's possible, just possible, that you don't see everything -- or that you see only what you want to see. All the pitchers all the time do not hustle to back up bases? They could be better fielders, but that is another matter. Oh, Beckett started a nice DP yesterday and caught a pop-up that Salty lost in the sun. See, you don't see everything -- or choose to ignore it.  The Sox are playing good fundamental baseball. Perhaps you don't know what to look for. I "see" no lack of hustle on this team.
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Right, that is where I see them - 10-15' in front of the plate.  Obviously I have an issue with that b/c obviously they don't belong there.  Are you doing this on purpose or am I really losing you here?

    Almost doesn't count?  Really?  While it's true he was safe, that kind of lack of hustle will catch up with them.  Also, it sets a bad example with the rest of the team.  You may be OK with it.  But I am not.

    They could be better fielders?  That's a direct quote from you.  Yet you start a thread on how good their defense is......

    I know Beckett turned 2 yesterday.  Does one good play cancel out a bad play?  Seems like it does for you.  For me, it doesn't.  Besides turning 2 is a matter of talent.  Not getting over to cover first is just being lazy or having a mental lapse - never any excuse for that.  While it may be OK with you, it is not OK for me.
     
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    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Defense, defense : Right, that is where I see them - 10-15' in front of the plate.  Obviously I have an issue with that b/c obviously they don't belong there.  Are you doing this on purpose or am I really losing you here? Almost doesn't count?  Really?  While it's true he was safe, that kind of lack of hustle will catch up with them.  Also, it sets a bad example with the rest of the team.  You may be OK with it.  But I am not. They could be better fielders?  That's a direct quote from you.  Yet you start a thread on how good their defense is...... I know Beckett turned 2 yesterday.  Does one good play cancel out a bad play?  Seems like it does for you.  For me, it doesn't.  Besides turning 2 is a matter of talent.  Not getting over to cover first is just being lazy or having a mental lapse - never any excuse for that.  While it may be OK with you, it is not OK for me.
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]
    Good plays are worth noting. Beckett hustled to catch the pop-up. He didn't just stand around, as many pitchers do, hoping for someone else to make the play.
    The cut-off men are not 10-15 directly in front of the plate.
    The man hit a ball and got to second standing up for a double. Happens all the time. Keep an eye out for it.
    Beckett made a mistake. Who said it was OK?
    "Sets a bad example." Pooh. This is not grade school. Batters hit a ball, and if they try for two, they will either slide or go in standing, depending upon their judgment


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    The defense has been terrific overall. The team is playing very well and now I'll tip my hat to BV for getting the team back to .500. Personally, I thought it would take longer. However, as noted in all of baseball, it comes to...starting pitching. Once your starting pitchers, or you top guys start throwing gems, or high-quality starts, you start winning. Especially with the Sox power and Sox ability to put runs on the board.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Defense, defense

    In Response to Re: Defense, defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Defense, defense : Good plays are worth noting. Beckett hustled to catch the pop-up. He didn't just stand around, as many pitchers do, hoping for someone else to make the play. The cut-off men are not 10-15 directly in front of the plate. The man hit a ball and got to second standing up for a double. Happens all the time. Keep an eye out for it. Beckett made a mistake. Who said it was OK? "Sets a bad example." Pooh. This is not grade school. Batters hit a ball, and if they try for two, they will either slide or go in standing, depending upon their judgment . 
    Posted by expitch[/QUOTE]

    Yes, on the pop-up it was a heads up play

    The pitchers most certainly do stand right in front of the plate. 

    AG nearly got thrown out.  Even DO who rarely says anything negative said that AG was "lackadasical" on that play.

    Keep an eye for it?  Just more demeaning.........

    Sets a bad example?  Yes, it does.  Ball players need to be leaders and RESPECT the game - it helps set a tone for the rest of the team.

    It seems that the problem last year is no one was babysitting some of the players........
     
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    Re: Defense, defense

    Where are all those Demand Beckett Be Traded threads?
     
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    Re: Defense, defense

    Many guys who are in long batting slumps eventually let it affect them on the other side of the ball--defense. I think AGON is letting everything get to him. But I still have tremendous faith that he will go on a binge very soon.
     

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