Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Edit: 12/13/11
    Edit 12/14/11

    C: Salty-Shoppach-Lava-Exposito-Swihart-Vazquez
    DH: Papi-Lava-Youk
    1B: AGon-Salty-Papi-Andeson-Head
    2B: Pedey-Aviles-Tejada
    3B: Youk-(Scutaro)-Aviles-Middlebrooks-Cecchini-Vitek
    SS: Scut-Aviles-Igglesias-Bogaerts-Vinicio
    LF: Craw-DMac-Redd
    CF: Ellsb-DMac-Kalish
    RF: Redd-DMac-Kalish
        OF:Linares-Lin-Nava-Brentz-Jacobs-Bradley-Hassan-Ramos-Hazelbaker

    SP: Beck-Lest-Buch-(Dice)-(Lack)-Taz-Doub-Weil
            -Wilson-Ranaudo-Barnes-Britton-Pimentel
          -Owens-Alcantara-Kukuk-Workman-Montas-Ramirez
    Pen: Bard-Acev-Melancon-Jenks-Albers-Hill-Morales-Bowden

    (Maybe Aceves and/or Bard get moved to SP.)

    Of all these positions, which ones do we have the most qualified or valuable MLB-ready depth?

    I ask this, because I think we may have to seriously think about trading a valuable "everyday player" for some pitching help. A higher emphasis might be placed on higher salaried players, in order to free up more money that could be spent on further improvement of the staff.

    Here are some examples:

    Trade ('12 cost)     Replace with_____________
    Youk    (12.25M)    Aviles/Lowrie/Middlebrooks
    Scutty  ($6M)         Iggy/Aviles/Lowrie
    Jenks    ($6M)         (see above list)
    Salty      ($arb)       Lava/Exposito
    Ellsbury ($arb)       DMac/Kalish
    Lowrie   ($arb)        Aviles/Iggys/Middlebrooks/Tejada



     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    The Sox could deal Youkilis or Scutaro, but who else wmong the regulars?

    Persoanlly, I think if Youkilis is my 3B, I want Iglesias at SS, even if he hits .140.  I think the Sox offense would survive.

    Of course, I have no idea what Scutaro gets in a trade.

    Saltalamacchia is another expendable player, but I am not sure who would be intererested and its not like he makes a ton anyway...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Scutaro is primarily a Fenway and v. LP player. I'd like to see Iglesias brought up early in the summer, and Scutaro finish the last half sitting more v LP and Iglesias starting a lot v RP and late inning defensive replacement.  Iglesias should be drilled in bunting and told to take a lot of pitches, even if it means plenty of called strikeouts. Scutaro is already a great mentor and would make for a good tandem as Iglesias cuts his teeth in his first major league apprenticeship attemp. Expectations should be for solid but not stellar defense and a low OBP. Managing expectations will help allow Iglesias to learn to do what SS is really about, saving pitchers extra outs and extra pitches and saving runs. It is a defensvie pitching that was attempted to be turned into a slugging position in modern baseball. 

    Red Sox need a RH OFer and a couple of value and fit pen arms. Mainly, they must develop a better work ethic for the current contracts that are on Esptein's former books.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    The Sox could deal Youkilis or Scutaro, but who else among the regulars?

    Higher priced players? None.

    Persoanlly, I think if Youkilis is my 3B, I want Iglesias at SS, even if he hits .140.  I think the Sox offense would survive.

    Of course, I have no idea what Scutaro gets in a trade.

    Perhaps the Phillies, if they miss out on Rollins would deal a guy like Blanton for him. Blanton makes $8.5M in 2012/Scutty $6M, so I'm not sure that works, unless Philly pays part of Blanton or takes Jenks with Scutty...highly unlikely.

    Saltalamacchia is another expendable player, but I am not sure who would be intererested and its not like he makes a ton anyway...

    Trading Salty would not be to save money (or much money), but perhaps instead to fill a pen slot without having to spend FA money to do so. It would also give Lava a FT shot to play everyday instead of languishing on our bench and hampering his development or by starting in AAA and necesitating us spending precious capital on a vet catcher back-up. (Although trading Salty would cause the same issue.)
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Sox don't seem to have a lot of wiggle room for next season since it appears they will definitely stay within the luxury tax cap.  They have to improve the starting pitching but RF can be filled from what they now have.  Youk is a possibility, but carries a high contract for an older player with a history of injury issues.  Still he could bring a good starter to the Sox if let go.  I think they should keep Scutaro and see mid-season how Iglesias performs hitting-wise in AAA.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Scutaro is primarily a Fenway and v. LP player. I'd like to see Iglesias brought up early in the summer, and Scutaro finish the last half sitting more v LP and Iglesias starting a lot v RP and late inning defensive replacement. 

    softy, some good points, except you should try looking at the numbers before you post, Scutaro has been remarkably consistent vs LHPs and RHPs over his career and with Boston. His OPS in the last 2 years is just .015 apart.

                   vs RHPs                 vs LHPs
    '11   .297/.361/.423./784   .303/.353/.422/.775
    '10   .273/.328/.384/.711   .282/.345/.398/.743
    '10-'11     .341/.399/.740          .348/.407/.755
    Career OPS:  .722                   .744

     Also...
                 Home                    Away
    '11  .294/.360/.411/.771   .302/.357/.433/.790
    '10  .277/.332/.403/.735   .274/.333/.373/.706
    '10-'11 OPS  .749                 .739

    He's about as even as they get.
    Career in Fenway: .744  (.727 overall)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    C: Salty-Lava- Exposito-Swihart-Vazquez DH: Papi-Lava-Youk 1B: AGon-Salty-Lowrie-Papi- Andeson-Head 2B: Pedey-Aviles-Lowrie- Tejada 3B: Youk-Lowrie-Aviles- Middlebrooks-Cecchini-Vitek SS: Scut-Aviles-Lowrie- Igglesias-Bogaerts-Vinicio LF: Craw-DMac-Redd CF: Ellsb-DMac- Kalish RF: Redd-DMac- Kalish     OF: Linares-Lin-Nava-Brentz-Jacobs-Bradley-Hassan-Ramos-Hazelbaker SP: Beck-Lest-Buch-(Dice)-(Lack) -Taz-Doub-Weil         - Wilson-Ranaudo-Barnes-Britton-Pimentel       -Owens-Alcantara-Kukuk-Workman-Montas-Ramirez Pen: Bard-Acev-Jenks-Albers-Hill-Morales- Bowden (Maybe Aceves and/or Bard get moved to SP.) Of all these positions, which ones do we have the most qualified or valuable MLB-ready depth? I ask this, because I think we may have to seriously think about trading a valuable "everyday player" for some pitching help. A higher emphasis might be placed on higher salaried players, in order to free up more money that could be spent on further improvement of the staff. Here are some examples: Trade ('12 cost)     Replace with_____________ Youk    (12.25M)    Aviles/Lowrie/Middlebrooks Scutty  ($6M)         Iggy/Aviles/Lowrie Jenks    ($6M)         (see above list) Salty      ($arb)       Lava/Exposito Ellsbury ($arb)       DMac/Kalish Lowrie   ($arb)        Aviles/Iggys/Middlebrooks/Tejada
    Posted by moonslav59


    moon - They don't have to tender DMAC a contract. I would hate to see him as our 4th OF. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    They may let DMac walk, but I think they can get him for cheap, and perhaps deal him after ST, if he doesn't fit. I do not want to see him in RF again, but he'd be a good platoon for CC in LF.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Youks is the trade bait - but I dunno what you can get for him.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Scutaro career splts is 20 points apart.

    Career OPS at Fenway is nearly 20 points higher than career OPS.

    You should try looking beyond 2 years and more closely at the metrics. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    Scutaro career splts is 20 points apart. Career OPS at Fenway is nearly 20 points higher than career OPS. You should try looking beyond 2 years and more closely at the metrics. 
    Posted by hankwilliams

    Umm, try reading my whole post: I did post career numbers, not just the last 2 years. besides, a 17 point disparity in Fenway vs overall OPS and 22 point disparity vs LHPs/RHPs shows he is very consistent either way and either place, not otherwise.

    There are very few hitters with closer disparities than Scutty. That was my point. I know he is slightly better at home and vs LHPs; my red highlights showed that, but not enough to make a big difference.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    I don't know.  To me it's kind of pointless filling out a depth chart with guys that have no chance to see the bigs for a few more yrs.  In comprising the 2012 roster, what difference does it make if you have a SS or 3B who will be ready in 2014?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    I am surprised moon did not cleverly insert Wake and Teks name into the "Chart".
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    I don't know.  To me it's kind of pointless filling out a depth chart with guys that have no chance to see the bigs for a few more yrs.  In comprising the 2012 roster, what difference does it make if you have a SS or 3B who will be ready in 2014?
    Posted by siestafiesta

    I put the 2012 ML ready players in bold, but provided the future players FYI, because this thread was meant to foster discussion of possible trades, and knowing what we have can be helpful.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Come on Burr. Don't drink the softy kool-aid.

    My chart is just players on the team or about to extend or go to arb. Besides...

    I have said all along, if Papi stays, VTek makes very little sense.

    I have mentioned Wake as one of several cheap 6/7th starter pick-up options.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    The depth chart gives the org. an opportunity to see how certain players are rated and where someone like Mike Hazen sees each maj. leaguer and Min. Leaguer stands top to bottom.

    Ranaudo may have had a terrible year record wise for his first pro season yet in my eyes he is the top pitching prospect in the org from AA down to the DSL and DWL. What he shows this year, if he's not traded for a Maj. League player, will tell us how Hazen and Ben and opposing GM's view BBA depth chart of talent.



    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    I don't know.  To me it's kind of pointless filling out a depth chart with guys that have no chance to see the bigs for a few more yrs.  In comprising the 2012 roster, what difference does it make if you have a SS or 3B who will be ready in 2014?
    Posted by siestafiesta

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Now, compare our depth chart to that of TB's and remember that we are already projected to be at last year's payroll number after arbs are settled, and the Rays are projected to have about $16M to spend if they want to reach 2011'2 payroll budget number.

    C: Salty-Lava-Exposito-Swihart-Vazquez
    DH: Papi-Lava-Youk
    1B: AGon-Salty-Lowrie-Papi-Andeson-Head
    2B: Pedey-Aviles-Lowrie-Tejada
    3B: Youk-Lowrie-Aviles-Middlebrooks-Cecchini-Vitek
    SS: Scut-Aviles-Lowrie-Igglesias-Bogaerts-Vinicio
    LF: Craw-DMac-Redd
    CF: Ellsb-DMac-Kalish
    RF: Redd-DMac-Kalish
        OF:Linares-Lin-Nava-Brentz-Jacobs-Bradley-Hassan-Ramos-Hazelbaker

    SP: Beck-Lest-Buch-(Dice)-(Lack)-Taz-Doub-Weil
            -Wilson-Ranaudo-Barnes-Britton-Pimentel
          -Owens-Alcantara-Kukuk-Workman-Montas-Ramirez
    Pen: Bard-Acev-Jenks-Albers-Hill-Morales-Bowden

    Here's how the Rays look right now...

    C  Jose Molina  Lobaton/Chirinos  Ashley/Albernaz/Wendt
    1B _________     L. Anderson/Miranda/Wrigley
    2B Zobrist         (Rodriguez)  O'Malley
    SS Rodriguez    E.Johnson or Brignac  Beckham/Hak-Ju Lee
    3B Longoria      (Rodriguez)  Mangini/Sexton
    LF Jennings       Fuld      Canzler/Kang
    CF Upton            Guyer   Velasquez/Shelby
    RF Joyce            Ruggiano  Vogt/Salem
    DH __________

    SP1 Shields       A. Torres/C. Archer/A. Colome
    SP2 Price           Paduch/Dyer/Barnese/Lobstein
    SP3 Hellickson
    SP4 Niemann
    SP5 Davis
    SP6 Moore

    RP1 Farnsworth   Matt Bush/Buente/Reid/Nunez
    RP2 Peralta         Schenk/De Los Santos/Espinosa/Fleming
    RP3 Howell          Quate/Orta
    RP4 Cobb (Starter)
    RP5 McGee
    RP6 Sonnanstine or Gomes/Ramos

    If you count Sonnanstine as a starter, they go 8 deep in their rotation. 7 of very good quality!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    The Sox could deal Youkilis or Scutaro, but who else wmong the regulars? Persoanlly, I think if Youkilis is my 3B, I want Iglesias at SS, even if he hits .140.  I think the Sox offense would survive. Of course, I have no idea what Scutaro gets in a trade. Saltalamacchia is another expendable player, but I am not sure who would be intererested and its not like he makes a ton anyway...
    Posted by notin


    Gee, when I said I wanted see Iglesias at SS, regardless of the possible offensive drop-off, I was effectively written off as a buffoon. "Iglesias is not ready for prime-time" was the mantra.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    Scutaro career splts is 20 points apart. Career OPS at Fenway is nearly 20 points higher than career OPS. You should try looking beyond 2 years and more closely at the metrics. 
    Posted by hankwilliams


    The U.S. refuses to adopt the metric system.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    The U.S. refuses to adopt the metric system.

    Softy refuses to adopt the "logic system".

    He actually thinks a .020 disparity between an OPS vs LHPs and RHPs is significant enough to warrant a platoon, but when posters pointed out Papi and Drew's splits vs most LHPs, the silly clown brushed the numbers under the rug.


    Here are the facts that silly clown wants to ignore...

    Scutaro's career OPS is .727.
    His OPS vs LHPs is .015 better than his overall OPS.
    His OPS vs RHPs is just .005 below his overall OPS.

    Since joining Boston, his overall OPS has been .744.
    vs LHPs:  .755  (+.011)
    vs RHPs:  .740  (-.004)

    Sctuaro's OPS in since joining Boston:
    Overall OPS: .744
    Home: .749  (+.005)
    Away: .739  (-.005)

    Marco's career numbers in Fenway as a Red Sox and as an opponent: 
    .744  (+.017 above his career overall OPS)

    Yes, Marco is slightly better in Fenway than away, and he is slightly better vs LHPs than RHPs, but if you compare him to other players in MLB or on the Sox, you will find the disparities are much much less.

    One example: softy steadfastly refused to agree with the idea that JD Drew should be platooned vs most LHPs. Here are Drew's splits since coming to Boston:

    Overall OPS: .824
    vs LHPs:  .719  (-.105)
    Vs RHPs: .860  (+.036)

    There's a massive disparity here, and more importantly, Drew's numbers vs LHPs are evn worse than Scutty's vs RHPs (Drew .719 vs Scutaro .722 career/.740 with the Sox).

    Why wasn't softy screaming for a Drew platoon?

    Answer: softy was for the Drew signing and had to defend that position no matter what the results showed.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    Scutaro career splts is 20 points apart. Career OPS at Fenway is nearly 20 points higher than career OPS. You should try looking beyond 2 years and more closely at the metrics. 
    Posted by hankwilliams


    20 OPS points is barely noticeable.  Over 500PA, most of that difference could come from as little as 5 singles. 

    That's about one hit a month for a full time major leaguer...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    He's about as steady as they come. Not many hitters have just a .020 disparity in their splits, but softy goes out of his way to make it an issue with Scutaro.

    He makes a big deal out of Ellsbury's splits as well, and his is only .036 apart career, but his most important stat as a leadoff man is OBP, and that is only .001 apart! (He's actually slightly better at getting on base vs LHPs.)

    Ellsbury and Scutaro have the least disparity between splits on the team, and yet these are the only two that softy has complained about their splits.

    Silly clown.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Moon, You can add Kelly Shoppach to the depth chart at C.  Looks like Lava will start the year in AAA.


    1 year, $1.35M
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    Moon, You can add Kelly Shoppach to the depth chart at C.  Looks like Lava will start the year in AAA. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/red-sox-to-sign-kelly-shoppach-.html 1 year, $1.35M
    Posted by JB-3

    Our best MLB-ready prospect is now blocked at DH (Papi) and Catcher (Salty/Shop). I had mentioned trading Salty, but I seriously doubt that will happen, and Shop & Lava both hit LHPs way better, so they don't mesh all that well.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now... : Our best MLB-ready prospect is now blocked at DH (Papi) and Catcher (Salty/Shop). I had mentioned trading Salty, but I seriously doubt that will happen, and Shop & Lava both hit LHPs way better, so they don't mesh all that well.
    Posted by moonslav59


    Moon, do you think they made the move in order to give Lav one more year of seasoning?  I am still not convinced that this is the case.  Shoppach is a weird move unless they are setting up another, bigger move with either Salty or Lavarnway as a chip.  
     
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