Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    I am not sure. Unlike many here, I am not happy with Salty as our FT catcher. I also think his stock is high enough to get a good relief pitcher in return. I hope they trade him for someone good and give Lava a full chance, however, I do not think they will trade him. I would guess Lava starts in AAA and will be called up quickly.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    moon, some thoughts:

    Trade Youk?  I can warm to his idea. Suggest that, with his hip issues, he needs to be traded to an AL team (so he can DH).  So what would be wrong with deciding that 3B is the property of Aviles/Lowrie and Youk gets traded (along with some cash and/or Ryan Kalish):

    - back to Ohio with CLE in a trade for, say, Shelley Duncan (at $0.5 mil/year and who gets moved to RF)  OR

    - to CWS in a trade for Dayan Viciedo (which would take care of the RF problem for $0.5 mil).

    This still doesn't solve the pitching problem, though it would raise the question of whether CLE would pull the trigger on a trade of Youk, Kalish and cash for Justin Masterson?  And in that case, of course, then Aviles/Lowrie takes care of 3B and Reddick/DMac takes care of RF?

    With Masterson back, Bard becomes the 5th starter and then the wiggle room in the budget, which i estimate at that point to be $10 mil, takes care of finding a new setup and a closer.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now... : Our best MLB-ready prospect is now blocked at DH (Papi) and Catcher (Salty/Shop). I had mentioned trading Salty, but I seriously doubt that will happen, and Shop & Lava both hit LHPs way better, so they don't mesh all that well.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Even if they don't match up that well as a platoon, Shoppach could certainly help work with Lava on his defense (certainly better than Salty working with him).  I also wouldn't have a problem with Salty being dealt for a useful piece.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    If Shoppach stays with the club, Iglesias will be nowhere near the lineup on days when Shoppach catches. He'll be in Pawtucket. Imagine the two of them hitting 8 and 9. In fact, as long as Shoppach is aboard, it's pretty clear that Iglesias will start in AAA and probably remain there for the season, unless there are injuries.
    At the moment, the signing of Shoppach is a puzzler, unless there is more to come involving him.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

     Looks like Lava will start the year in AAA. Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]

    As he should.

    Games started at catcher:

    '09    66
    '10    53
    '11    64

    I don't agree a trade is coming.  Shop/Salty have advantageous splits.  IMO that is the 2012 plan..Lav gets some time to develop.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    i hope you are wrong tom
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Joe Saunders might be an option...couldnt come to an agreement with the snakes...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    [QUOTE]i hope you are wrong tom
    Posted by maxnsl[/QUOTE]

    My take on Ben's thinking:

    2009 - 2011  
    Shoppach vs.  LHP 
    .262.372.488.860

    Salty vs RHP
    .241.299.430.729

    MLB Avg. as Catcher

    .244.312.388.700


    2011 CS%

    Shop 41

    Salty 31





     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from proftom. Show proftom's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    The Sox core is set, AGon, Peddy, Scut, Yuk, Carl, Jacoby, Salty, and younger RF. Pitching is set, three high priced guys, Beck, Kest, Buch, and the rest, look what the Yankees did last year with their 4/5 starters. We'll try the same. 

    Pen is set
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lhtak. Show lhtak's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Moon, do you work for the sox front office by any chance? cos you seem to have a reasoning for all of their moves. My analysis on the trades or free agent signings so far by the Sox worthless to mention. I do not think anyone with power to trade takes BC seriously. He has been a joke so far, I am not optimistic but willing to give them benefit of doubt for this season. The Sox are downgraded to last year and unless something seriously changes unexpectedly their third place is secured for sure.

    By the way thanks for putting together the depth chart so far.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now... : My take on Ben's thinking: 2009 - 2011   Shoppach vs.  LHP  .262 .372 .488 .860 Salty vs RHP .241 .299 .430 .729 MLB Avg. as Catcher .244 .312 .388 .700 2011 CS% Shop 41 Salty 31
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    I miss your posts, tom.

    One side note:
    2010-2011 vs LHPs: 
    Shopp  .804  (10th best in MLB, including 2 DHs - Napoli & VMart)

    ... Still very good, and better than VTek.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    [QUOTE]Moon, do you work for the sox front office by any chance? cos you seem to have a reasoning for all of their moves. My analysis on the trades or free agent signings so far by the Sox worthless to mention. I do not think anyone with power to trade takes BC seriously. He has been a joke so far, I am not optimistic but willing to give them benefit of doubt for this season. The Sox are downgraded to last year and unless something seriously changes unexpectedly their third place is secured for sure. By the way thanks for putting together the depth chart so far.
    Posted by lhtak[/QUOTE]

    You're welcome... BTW, I have been highly critical of Sox management over the years. I started a thread a couple years ago listing and grading (in hindsight) every major signing and trade by Theo since the Nomar deal. It wasn't pretty.

    I don't know if Ben will be bad or good, but so far, I have not seen one signing that I have thought, "man, we should have offered a little more and got that guy." I like The Bobby V choice. I like Shoppach. I like the non-guarnteed Miller signing. I'll wait to judge the rest after this winter is over.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    [QUOTE]Moon, do you work for the sox front office by any chance? cos you seem to have a reasoning for all of their moves. My analysis on the trades or free agent signings so far by the Sox worthless to mention. I do not think anyone with power to trade takes BC seriously. He has been a joke so far, I am not optimistic but willing to give them benefit of doubt for this season. The Sox are downgraded to last year and unless something seriously changes unexpectedly their third place is secured for sure. By the way thanks for putting together the depth chart so far.
    Posted by lhtak[/QUOTE]

    Third Place was decided by a TB miracle on their last AB and a collapse by Papelbon on his last potential strike. Aren't we exaggerating or overstating here? Why not accept what happened and chalk it up to terrible luck instead of convenient scapegoating. Both things happened within minutes of each other. It was tou-gh sh-it, nothing more.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    [QUOTE] Looks like Lava will start the year in AAA. Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE] As he should. Games started at catcher: '09    66 '10    53 '11    64 I don't agree a trade is coming.  Shop/Salty have advantageous splits.  IMO that is the 2012 plan..Lav gets some time to develop.
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]

    Sox brass wanted him working on catching drills as much as possible to improve his defense.  They don't like their young catchers doing drills and catching in games on the same day, hence the low number of games played at catcher.  Truth is he was doing catching work almost every day of the season.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

      I don't know. I look at all the holes we need to fill and what little money we appear to have to fill them, then I look at what prospect is most likely to help us in 2012 (at no added cost), and Lava's name is right at the top.

      Now, the one kid who could most help us in 2012, is effectively blocked until 2013 or a trade. If we are going to stay under the luxury tax limit, every penny must be wisely spent. I like having Shoppach, but unless we trade Salty or Lava, I think the pennies were not spent very well. I know, it's just about $1M, but when we may only have about $6-8M to spend, that makes a difference.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxforlife22. Show soxforlife22's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    If we are thinking of trading youk why not trade him to the team who has the most interest in him: The Athletics. Billy Beane is in love with the guy and we also have some prospects that interest him. I cannot think of them all off the top of my head but i think i remember Lars Anderson's name being thrown around. Youk and some prospects for Gio Gonzalez and Andrew Bailey doesn't sound too bad does it?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    [QUOTE]If we are thinking of trading youk why not trade him to the team who has the most interest in him: The Athletics. Billy Beane is in love with the guy and we also have some prospects that interest him. I cannot think of them all off the top of my head but i think i remember Lars Anderson's name being thrown around. Youk and some prospects for Gio Gonzalez and Andrew Bailey doesn't sound too bad does it?
    Posted by soxforlife22[/QUOTE]

    The A's love players like Youk...high OBPs, but they hate Youk's contract.

    Their payroll is at about $18M now and projects (after arbs) to be at about $60M. Adding $12M plus $13M in 2013 or a $1M buyout is not going to happen. He'd be 1/6th of their total payroll.

    If Milwaukee loses Fielder, StL, Milw, and Atl seem like the most likely teams to trade straight up for Youk, but we'd get prospects, not quality pitchers in return. We could possibly involve a 3rd team by sending the prospect to them for an arm or two. Then, with the money saved by moving Youk, we could sign 1-2 more arms.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-Bay-Fan. Show J-Bay-Fan's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    I want too iglesias at SS
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Defend the Dunn signing and the Lackey signing, no matter what.............
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    [QUOTE]Defend the Dunn signing and the Lackey signing, no matter what.............
    Posted by hankwilliams[/QUOTE]


    Talk about stalking and going off topic....
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Edit: 12/13/11
    Edit 12/14/11

    C: Salty-Shoppach-Lava-Exposito-Swihart-Vazquez
    DH: Papi-Lava-Youk
    1B: AGon-Salty-Papi-Andeson-Head
    2B: Pedey-Aviles-Tejada
    3B: Youk-(Scutaro)-Aviles-Middlebrooks-Cecchini-Vitek
    SS: Scut-Aviles-Lowrie-Igglesias-Bogaerts-Vinicio
    LF: Craw-DMac-Redd
    CF: Ellsb-DMac-Kalish
    RF: Redd-DMac-Kalish
        OF:Linares-Lin-Nava-Brentz-Jacobs-Bradley-Hassan-Ramos-Hazelbaker

    SP: Beck-Lest-Buch-(Dice)-(Lack)-Taz-Doub
            -Wilson-Ranaudo-Barnes-Britton-Pimentel
          -Owens-Alcantara-Kukuk-Workman-Montas-Ramirez
    Pen: Bard-Acev-Melancon-Jenks-Albers-Hill-Morales-Bowden

    (Maybe Aceves and/or Bard get moved to SP.)

    Of all these positions, which ones do we have the most qualified or valuable MLB-ready depth?

    I ask this, because I think we may have to seriously think about trading a valuable "everyday player" for some pitching help. A higher emphasis might be placed on higher salaried players, in order to free up more money that could be spent on further improvement of the staff.

    Here are some examples:

    Trade ('12 cost)     Replace with_____________
    Youk    (12.25M)    Aviles/Lowrie/Middlebrooks
    Scutty  ($6M)         Iggy/Aviles/Lowrie
    Jenks    ($6M)         (see above list)
    Salty      ($arb)       Lava/Exposito
    Ellsbury ($arb)       DMac/Kalish

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    Moon - I thought Tazawa was slated for the pen.  Did I miss the memo?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    In Response to Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...:
    [QUOTE]Moon - I thought Tazawa was slated for the pen.  Did I miss the memo?
    Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, and they say Bard and Aceves might start. I'll adjust when things are more firm, but I think you are right, Taz is firmly in the pen now.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    I have hopes Taz has a break out year and is the third key component to the BP.

    Yeah, seems like at most one of them comes out of ST as a starter ... my money is on Aceves to start and Bard in the pen.  I'm guessing the team thinks there is some side benefit to Bard's durability stretching him out through ST but what the heck do I know.  OTOH, Aceves may have the better mental make up to be a closer.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth Chart for 2012 as it stands now...

    I'd prefer they both stay in the pen, but agree that Aceves makes more sense than bard as a starter. I'd say it's a coin toss on who would be a better closer.

    I liked what i saw of tazwa in limited duty a couple years ago. I have hopes he will help us in 2012. I'd rather not have to count on it though. 
     

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