Depth

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Depth

    First I want to say that I have said many times that I believe Iggy would hit MLB pitching. So far (SSS) he is. I do expect his numbers to normalize though. Although Middlebrooks hasnt hit much at all this year, even before the injury, he looked good at the plate in AAA last night. A good sign.

    This poses a problem at SS. Some here cant wait to get rid of Drew. Although I think its a possibility, I dont think its very likely right now. Maybe at the deadline if a good offer is made. A solid SS is usually needed by a couple teams. But I still have some concerns doing that.

    Now, I love what I see from Iggy and I can now see him possibly being the starting SS soon, but what happens if Iggy gets hurt? Or Middy gets hurt? Both have had their share of injuries, especially Iggy. What happens if Iggy goes back to being a 200BA 260OBP? Middy goes back into a big slump? You want Ciriaco or Holt holding things down? Thats why Id wait a little bit and see how things play out before I think about making any moves right now. Just something to think about.

    Trade Ells? This one I could see as a slight possibility, but I dont think you get much for him. Especially after his recent DL stint. You would probably have better luck with the comp pick next year. Maybe some GM is willing to give up a decent prospect that we would otherwise get in the comp round. I dont think JBJ is fully ready yet, so Im not sure this one even happens.

    Salty? No way. I dont see this happening at all. His offense is much better this year and although hes just average defensively, he does a great job with our staff. They feel comfortable with him back there. Like the way he calls a game and he knows them enough to help work them through problems when they occur. Theres is much more to catching than just numbers. Im sorry, by you cant give Ross Saltys workload and think you will get the same results, no matter how you want to look at it. Trading salty this year, especially if they are right in the PO run, would be a big bone-headed move. There is even a possibility they resign him and start him until Vasquez is ready.

    Its great to see the kids playing well, without a doubt. I just dont think you hand them the keys right now. Farrell and Ben will possibly have some tough decisions to make soon and I wouldnt want to be in their shoes in that regard. Trades are certainly possible, but you have to consider what got them this far, DEPTH, and if you want to risk losing that depth going into the toughest part of the season. We have a good thing going the way it is, dont try and fix whats not broke. At least not right now. A lot can happen between now and the end of July.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

    Bradley has proven the past few games he's not ready and getting anything for Ells is not likely.

    I can't see any team offering much for Drew.  If Iggy would get hurt we have no replacement Holt's worse position by far in the infield is SS.

    Salty's contract needs to be extended .

    Middlebrooks need to prove he can hit and field. I would like to keep that power in the lineup. We'll soon see.

    We need bull pen help and I'm not sold on our starters yet.

    Getting a good pitcher for Drew or Ells doesn't seem likely.  I don't see any team begging for a SS

    I'm a little suprised by the lack of knowledge about baseball that some of our lofty posters have.




    Some here have a personal agenda. Some are upset because they are Iggy fans and therefore cant comprehend liking both players. I especially like the "fans" who express "concern" with Drew using his injury years to make their case. Laughable and "clueless". Then there are those just trying to get under others skin.

    These 2 are worth more to the Sox then what they would probably be offered. Your right DF, were NOT going to get good pitching for a couple months of these guys. I would imagine that most every team would LOVE to have this kind of depth and yet the armchair GM's here want to get rid of it. This formula is working. Dont mess with it.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

     

     

     

    Bradley has proven the past few games he's not ready and getting anything for Ells is not likely.

    I can't see any team offering much for Drew.  If Iggy would get hurt we have no replacement Holt's worse position by far in the infield is SS.

    Salty's contract needs to be extended .

    Middlebrooks need to prove he can hit and field. I would like to keep that power in the lineup. We'll soon see.

    We need bull pen help and I'm not sold on our starters yet.

    Getting a good pitcher for Drew or Ells doesn't seem likely.  I don't see any team begging for a SS

    I'm a little suprised by the lack of knowledge about baseball that some of our lofty posters have.

     

     




    Some here have a personal agenda. Some are upset because they are Iggy fans and therefore cant comprehend liking both players. I especially like the "fans" who express "concern" with Drew using his injury years to make their case. Laughable and "clueless". Then there are those just tryingto get under others skin.

     

     

    These 2 are worth more to the Sox then what they would probably be offered. Your right DF, were NOT going to get good pitching for a couple months of these guys. I would imagine that most every team would LOVE to have this kind of depth and yet the armchair GM's here want to get rid of it. This formula is working. Dont mess with it.

     




    Absolutely.

     

    If the Sox decide that we're a #3 SP away from really making a run at rings, this year, then they'll have to part with some minor league talent.

    I think that's much more likely than offloading Drew or Ellsbury.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

     

     

     

    Bradley has proven the past few games he's not ready and getting anything for Ells is not likely.

    I can't see any team offering much for Drew.  If Iggy would get hurt we have no replacement Holt's worse position by far in the infield is SS.

    Salty's contract needs to be extended .

    Middlebrooks need to prove he can hit and field. I would like to keep that power in the lineup. We'll soon see.

    We need bull pen help and I'm not sold on our starters yet.

    Getting a good pitcher for Drew or Ells doesn't seem likely.  I don't see any team begging for a SS

    I'm a little suprised by the lack of knowledge about baseball that some of our lofty posters have.

     

     




    Some here have a personal agenda. Some are upset because they are Iggy fans and therefore cant comprehend liking both players. I especially like the "fans" who express "concern" with Drew using his injury years to make their case. Laughable and "clueless". Then there are those just tryingto get under others skin.

     

     

    These 2 are worth more to the Sox then what they would probably be offered. Your right DF, were NOT going to get good pitching for a couple months of these guys. I would imagine that most every team would LOVE to have this kind of depth and yet the armchair GM's here want to get rid of it. This formula is working. Dont mess with it.

     




    Absolutely.

     

    If the Sox decide that we're a #3 SP away from really making a run at rings, this year, then they'll have to part with some minor league talent.

    I think that's much more likely than offloading Drew or Ellsbury.




    agree 100%. We cant just unload anyone. Most, if not all teams will want young controlable prospects or MLB players with at least 3+ years of control. We have a lot of that that we can use.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

    Bradley has proven the past few games he's not ready and getting anything for Ells is not likely.

    I can't see any team offering much for Drew.  If Iggy would get hurt we have no replacement Holt's worse position by far in the infield is SS.

    Salty's contract needs to be extended .

    Middlebrooks need to prove he can hit and field. I would like to keep that power in the lineup. We'll soon see.

    We need bull pen help and I'm not sold on our starters yet.

    Getting a good pitcher for Drew or Ells doesn't seem likely.  I don't see any team begging for a SS

    I'm a little suprised by the lack of knowledge about baseball that some of our lofty posters have.



    You're not sold on our SP? Really? Overall, i think our starting staff has done great. I'm not sold on Lester being a #1, but everyone else seems legit for their roles.No?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    First I want to say that I have said many times that I believe Iggy would hit MLB pitching. So far (SSS) he is. I do expect his numbers to normalize though. Although Middlebrooks hasnt hit much at all this year, even before the injury, he looked good at the plate in AAA last night. A good sign.

    This poses a problem at SS. Some here cant wait to get rid of Drew. Although I think its a possibility, I dont think its very likely right now. Maybe at the deadline if a good offer is made. A solid SS is usually needed by a couple teams. But I still have some concerns doing that.

    Now, I love what I see from Iggy and I can now see him possibly being the starting SS soon, but what happens if Iggy gets hurt? Or Middy gets hurt? Both have had their share of injuries, especially Iggy. What happens if Iggy goes back to being a 200BA 260OBP? Middy goes back into a big slump? You want Ciriaco or Holt holding things down? Thats why Id wait a little bit and see how things play out before I think about making any moves right now. Just something to think about.

    Trade Ells? This one I could see as a slight possibility, but I dont think you get much for him. Especially after his recent DL stint. You would probably have better luck with the comp pick next year. Maybe some GM is willing to give up a decent prospect that we would otherwise get in the comp round. I dont think JBJ is fully ready yet, so Im not sure this one even happens.

    Salty? No way. I dont see this happening at all. His offense is much better this year and although hes just average defensively, he does a great job with our staff. They feel comfortable with him back there. Like the way he calls a game and he knows them enough to help work them through problems when they occur. Theres is much more to catching than just numbers. Im sorry, by you cant give Ross Saltys workload and think you will get the same results, no matter how you want to look at it. Trading salty this year, especially if they are right in the PO run, would be a big bone-headed move. There is even a possibility they resign him and start him until Vasquez is ready.

    Its great to see the kids playing well, without a doubt. I just dont think you hand them the keys right now. Farrell and Ben will possibly have some tough decisions to make soon and I wouldnt want to be in their shoes in that regard. Trades are certainly possible, but you have to consider what got them this far, DEPTH, and if you want to risk losing that depth going into the toughest part of the season. We have a good thing going the way it is, dont try and fix whats not broke. At least not right now. A lot can happen between now and the end of July.



    THANK YOU....well said. We are in contention for a po berth. There is just no way they are going to unload Ells, drew, Salty, or even Doubrant. They are ALL key parts of the very strength of this team. Like you said, anything is possible,but not likely. If Navakeeps it up, I really don't see where they can upgrade ANYWHERE that would make sense. Our pitching is fine, they are all slotted and performing in their respective slots at MLB above average. Now...could we go out and get a 3 slot vet for the stretch run? Sure...

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Depth

    The numbers say Drew is good this year. 

    Softy says he's bad.

    Softy is 'above the numbers'. Laughing   

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Depth

    The numbers show that Drew's OPS of .751 is 71 points higher than the league average of .680 for shortstops.

    The numbers (FanGraphs) show that Drew has a UZR/150 of +17.5.

    Does Softlaw have any actual numbers that show Drew is not well above average?

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Depth


    Funny how unexpected contention and leading a division can mess with all the long term rebuilding plans. Patience and stressing long term development over short term winning sort of goes out the window.

    I only hope Ben C. resists any temptation to do anything drastic, like trading the farm for Cliff Lee or something equally foolish. The current roster is winning, and playing decent baseball. Pitching staff seems comfortable with Salty, infield defense okay , clubhouse appears cohesive and focused. No sense blowing up the current roster , just perhaps a few tweaks. Ugrade for Gomes looks problematic due to massive overpay , unless can DL him and audition Brentz.

    IF we could somehow deal for an upgrade at # 3 starter and or a r/h power outfield bat WITHOUT giving up the farm.....like maybe Alex Rios from CWS ? Or in case Middlebrooks doesn't resume hitting upon return, get Aramis Ramirez from Milw. ? Both of those deals would be salary dumps, shouldn't require major prospect costs. The starting pitcher upgrade probably WOULD be too expensive.

    However deals not including top prospects ARE a good dea, as we'll need at least 4 spots on 40-man this fall for some Rule 5 eliigible kids. Maybe Britton, Butler, Bard, Hassan and Ciriaco are goners.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    First I want to say that I have said many times that I believe Iggy would hit MLB pitching. So far (SSS) he is.

    I remember the "many times" you said "he needs to change his attitude and he's not ready and hasn't proven he can hit AAA pitching and he's now behind Marrero and dropping".

    WRONG...I NEVER said he was behind Marerro. I said That Bogaerts will pass him up soon if he doesnt step it up.

    Middlebrooks, even with the rib injuries, has 7 homers, on a team that is weak on slugging v. LP.

    3 HR were in one game and he has a .201BA and .234 OBP. Who cares if he has 7HR.

    S. Drew is totally expendable and a big 9.5M bust. With Iglesias and Holt, no reason to keep putting and money in his next contract audition, which hasn't gone well. He's been consistently hovering around the .700 to .750 OPS, striking out a ton just to do that, and has weak range.

    He has a .751OPS and 45K to 24BB. But your bias, so this is not worth arguing with you.

    S. Drew should be sold and cash should be sent to get rid of him. That will net a farm scrap and get rid of this elephant. He's done abosolutely nothing more than the bad baseball palyer he's been for over 2 years, now.

    your clueless and, again, bias.

    Middlebrooks and his 7 homers need to get back in the lineup so there is some threat of the long ball v. LP.

    Dont forget about that .210BA and .234OBP to go with those 7HR.

    They need to go forward with Middlebrooks, Iglesias and Holt, and run Ciriaco through waivers. For further depth, if their is an injury, they can take a long look at Bogaerts in the infield, although I believe they need to plan on, long term, moving him to LF.

    Yeah, and have no more depth for injuries or prolonged slumps. Holt is not going to cut it if something happens where he has to play an extended period of time. That, and SS isnt his strong position, 2b is... Sorry, thats NOT how you construct a MLB roster.

     Ellsbury on the DL for what has been called a minor injury means nothing on the decision to sell him. He will have to pass the physical, which he will, and some NL GM will send a high ranked prospect with good numbers at AA or higher. And while it's less likely, they should also call the Phillies and offer Ellsbury and Dumpster or Dumpster and Doubrant or Morales or Webster or De La Rosa (And Owens if that's where the trade market is but I doubt it) and send the Phillies about 6 to 10M in cash for Cliff Lee (And restructure Lee's option to vest it if he agrees to the trade)

    Once again, your bias against certain players shines through. No team that is waving the white flag on the season will even consider Ells or Dempster. seriously?

    With Shane and Bradley, there is no need to waste anymore time and money on Ellsbury. 12 games of Bradley doesn not translate to "he's not ready". Bradley is too good for minor league baseball and needs to learn to adjust to MLB pitching, which he will in the form of adquate OBP by the end of the season if he starts for 3 months or more.

    So you want him to "learn to adjust to MLB pitching" while were in a possiblt pennant race? Farrell called off the bunt last night because he knew JBJ would get a FB and JBJ looked lost trying to bunt. He got a nice FB to hit and didnt swing when he should of. Then he gets schooled again on the high inside heat. Ellsbury was hot before the injury and is a game changer when he gets on base.

    Shane and Bradley is all they need on depth for CF for the rest of this season and next season.

    this is funny since you have said that Vic is a PT player who will be on the DL.

    They need to go ahead and start taking a long look at 24 year old Brentz, on the OF depth chart. Gomes is a joke who had been a good bench slugger guy v. LP, but they need to DL this guy and start running tests (include a brain scan)

    Id like to see what Brentz has too, but theres no guarantees. Plus you have referred to Brentz as a 2nd rate prospect with a "4th OF'er profile".

    Salty should not be extended, he isn't "average" defensively. Any contact offer to Salty FA should be no more than 2 years and lower single digits base. Salty should be retained for the rest of this season. Next season, the plan should be Ross and Lavarnway and/or Vazquez, with Salty retained only if his market is 2 years and lower single digits base.

    Salty should get a 4yr deal somewhere. Id put money on it

    The Red Sox need to look at Brentz, DL Gomes if need be, and be looking for a true salary dump slugging v LP OF'er. Soriano has a .938 OPS v. LP, this season, and would be a fit. The Cubs would probably send a lot of cash to move him off the payroll, particularly if the Red Sox sent a farm scrap they could get by sending some cash with S. Drew. Soriano has just one more season left on his contract, where, with cash sent, would be a good bridge to Brentz or Bogaerts.

    Soriano isnt worth 18M or even close to it. Maybe 6M. The cubs dont need Drew either. Starlin Castro is there and costs nothing.   

    The Sox need to keep the depth they have right now. Getting rid of the guys that helped this team get where they are right now is hardly the answer. Injuries and slumps WILL happen. Most teams would be jealous of the depth we have. Its amazing that some here want to make major changes with a winning formula.




     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    Depth is important, but can be accessed via the waiver wire, August deals, and the farm for very cheap.

    What's more important is to try and improve your weakest links over the summer. This cannot be done by trading your scrubs or aging/injured players. You have to give something of value to get something for value. To improve the weakest link, you often have to sacrifice depth or good talent at the major or minor league level. 

    With Victorino hurt, but due back soon, I'd say SP is our biggest weakness followed by OF (CF or RF) is our next biggest weakness (sorry Jacoby fans). 3B/SS? Power RH'd hitter for the middle of our line-up?

    I'd give up Jacoby, Drew, Doubront and a couple blocked prospects to get a solid SP (better than Doubront and under team control for 2+ years) and RH'd power bat OF'er.

    Sox4ever

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Depth is important, but can be accessed via the waiver wire, August deals, and the farm for very cheap.

    What's more important is to try and improve your weakest links over the summer. This cannot be done by trading your scrubs or aging/injured players. You have to give something of value to get something for value. To improve the weakest link, you often have to sacrifice depth or good talent at the major or minor league level. 

    With Victorino hurt, but due back soon, I'd say SP is our biggest weakness followed by OF (CF or RF) is our next biggest weakness (sorry Jacoby fans). 3B/SS? Power RH'd hitter for the middle of our line-up?

    I'd give up Jacoby, Drew, Doubront and a couple blocked prospects to get a solid SP (better than Doubront and under team control for 2+ years) and RH'd power bat OF'er.

    Sox4ever



    Then again , you wanted to trade for Brett Anderson and Gavin Floyd. Sometimes a solid SP does not turn out to be all that solid.  Right now ,  Doubront looks better than those two guys you wanted so much. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    First I want to say that I have said many times that I believe Iggy would hit MLB pitching. So far (SSS) he is. I do expect his numbers to normalize though. Although Middlebrooks hasnt hit much at all this year, even before the injury, he looked good at the plate in AAA last night. A good sign.

    This poses a problem at SS. Some here cant wait to get rid of Drew. Although I think its a possibility, I dont think its very likely right now. Maybe at the deadline if a good offer is made. A solid SS is usually needed by a couple teams. But I still have some concerns doing that.

    Now, I love what I see from Iggy and I can now see him possibly being the starting SS soon, but what happens if Iggy gets hurt? Or Middy gets hurt? Both have had their share of injuries, especially Iggy. What happens if Iggy goes back to being a 200BA 260OBP? Middy goes back into a big slump? You want Ciriaco or Holt holding things down? Thats why Id wait a little bit and see how things play out before I think about making any moves right now. Just something to think about.

    Trade Ells? This one I could see as a slight possibility, but I dont think you get much for him. Especially after his recent DL stint. You would probably have better luck with the comp pick next year. Maybe some GM is willing to give up a decent prospect that we would otherwise get in the comp round. I dont think JBJ is fully ready yet, so Im not sure this one even happens.

    Salty? No way. I dont see this happening at all. His offense is much better this year and although hes just average defensively, he does a great job with our staff. They feel comfortable with him back there. Like the way he calls a game and he knows them enough to help work them through problems when they occur. Theres is much more to catching than just numbers. Im sorry, by you cant give Ross Saltys workload and think you will get the same results, no matter how you want to look at it. Trading salty this year, especially if they are right in the PO run, would be a big bone-headed move. There is even a possibility they resign him and start him until Vasquez is ready.

    Its great to see the kids playing well, without a doubt. I just dont think you hand them the keys right now. Farrell and Ben will possibly have some tough decisions to make soon and I wouldnt want to be in their shoes in that regard. Trades are certainly possible, but you have to consider what got them this far, DEPTH, and if you want to risk losing that depth going into the toughest part of the season. We have a good thing going the way it is, dont try and fix whats not broke. At least not right now. A lot can happen between now and the end of July.



    Great OP and thread.  Especially needed to expose the larger picture in constrast to that can't see the forest through the trees report card nonsense.   Many situations will play themselves out and no significant transactions are likely needed up until the trading deadline or possibly afterwards.  

    For now, the two areas that may be addressed later are starting pitching and right-handed pop.  Starting pitching would be more of a supplemental thing as you can never have enough.  Still, I wouldn't want them to give up much to get it, unless they absorbed some extra short-term payroll and maybe swapped Doubront for a more experienced and proven veteran.  As far as right-handed pop, it could come from the outfield or third base.  Maybe there's an inhouse solution, but if not, this will depend upon Middlebrooks's and/or Gomes's stepping it up over the next month and a half.   

    As far handing the keys to the youngins, I would be more inclined to hand them to Iggy than to Middlebrooks.  Iggy has stepped up to the challange of playing a new position and has earned the right to stay.  Middlebrooks has more to prove before he can be counted on this season, but for all we know, everything could change in a couple of weeks.  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    Depth is important, but can be accessed via the waiver wire, August deals, and the farm for very cheap.

    What's more important is to try and improve your weakest links over the summer. This cannot be done by trading your scrubs or aging/injured players. You have to give something of value to get something for value. To improve the weakest link, you often have to sacrifice depth or good talent at the major or minor league level. 

    With Victorino hurt, but due back soon, I'd say SP is our biggest weakness followed by OF (CF or RF) is our next biggest weakness (sorry Jacoby fans). 3B/SS? Power RH'd hitter for the middle of our line-up?

    I'd give up Jacoby, Drew, Doubront and a couple blocked prospects to get a solid SP (better than Doubront and under team control for 2+ years) and RH'd power bat OF'er.

    Sox4ever

     



    Then again , you wanted to trade for Brett Anderson and Gavin Floyd. Sometimes a solid SP does not turn out to be all that solid.  Right now ,  Doubront looks better than those two guys you wanted so much. 

     



    I'd still trade Doubront for Anderson in a heartbeat. He's younger, better, and has more upside. He's only got 2 years of team control though, so maybe we can do better.

    I wanted Floyd last year while his years of team control was greater than it is now. He is not doing well this year, but did better than Doubront last year.

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Depth

    You dont create a team for depth...this is not hockey where you need three lines so that they can play equal amounts...this is baseball where most of the subs are scrubs who cant pitch more than an inning at a time or journeyman subs who add a little versatility to late inning situations in terms of speed, defense, or batting matchups. The one position where you need a quality backup is catcher - and we have that. 

    You play your best players....and that is simply Iggy at ss for his awesome range, arm, glove, and Will Mid for his power. If Drew wants to be a sub for ten million, thats OK with me. I think he would be a fine backup. But there is abso no reason given hs career averages, and current average/glove why you would delay starting Iggy for this guy. He is signed for a year. Who expected this team to be in first? NO ONE. Not one person on this forum predicted this. So play to stay in first. Trying to juggle playing time to satisfy a veteran signed to just one year is foolish. If Drew plays better and heats up, then by all means keep him playing. But that hot person is Iggy and he should be starting. I'm not sure I even understand this concept of demoting Will. These are the same people who said Drew shouldnt have lost his starting role because of injury are now saying Will has to "prove" himself in AAA after being on the dl

    Dumb.

    As always - 100% correct!

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to jimedfred's comment:


    Funny how unexpected contention and leading a division can mess with all the long term rebuilding plans. Patience and stressing long term development over short term winning sort of goes out the window.

    I only hope Ben C. resists any temptation to do anything drastic, like trading the farm for Cliff Lee or something equally foolish. The current roster is winning, and playing decent baseball. Pitching staff seems comfortable with Salty, infield defense okay , clubhouse appears cohesive and focused. No sense blowing up the current roster , just perhaps a few tweaks. Ugrade for Gomes looks problematic due to massive overpay , unless can DL him and audition Brentz.

    IF we could somehow deal for an upgrade at # 3 starter and or a r/h power outfield bat WITHOUT giving up the farm.....like maybe Alex Rios from CWS ? Or in case Middlebrooks doesn't resume hitting upon return, get Aramis Ramirez from Milw. ? Both of those deals would be salary dumps, shouldn't require major prospect costs. The starting pitcher upgrade probably WOULD be too expensive.

    However deals not including top prospects ARE a good dea, as we'll need at least 4 spots on 40-man this fall for some Rule 5 eliigible kids. Maybe Britton, Butler, Bard, Hassan and Ciriaco are goners.




    I think Britton stays. He's looked awfully good in Portland.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    OK, I really did not want to get into specifics until mid-July, but I'll throw this one out there:

    1) Trade Ellsbury for a very good prospect.

    2) Trade Drew for a decent prospect (pay part of Drew's deal if needed).

    3) Trade the prospects from above and maybe a player/prospect that will need to be on the 40 man roster next year (or be rule 5'd or DFA'd) plus Doubront to Milwaukee for Yovani Gallardo. He's off to a poor start, so maybe his pricetag is a bit lower. He just turned 27 and is only 1.5 years older than Doubront. His contract?

    13:$7.75M, 14:$11.25M, 15:$13M club option ($0.6M buyout)

    We get better at starting SS and starting CF and 5th starter, but get worse on the bench.

    I can see the the forest beyond the trees.

    Sox4ever

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

     

     

    Depth is important, but can be accessed via the waiver wire, August deals, and the farm for very cheap.

    What's more important is to try and improve your weakest links over the summer. This cannot be done by trading your scrubs or aging/injured players. You have to give something of value to get something for value. To improve the weakest link, you often have to sacrifice depth or good talent at the major or minor league level. 

    With Victorino hurt, but due back soon, I'd say SP is our biggest weakness followed by OF (CF or RF) is our next biggest weakness (sorry Jacoby fans). 3B/SS? Power RH'd hitter for the middle of our line-up?

    I'd give up Jacoby, Drew, Doubront and a couple blocked prospects to get a solid SP (better than Doubront and under team control for 2+ years) and RH'd power bat OF'er.

    Sox4ever

     

     



    Then again , you wanted to trade for Brett Anderson and Gavin Floyd. Sometimes a solid SP does not turn out to be all that solid.  Right now ,  Doubront looks better than those two guys you wanted so much. 

     

     

     



    I'd still trade Doubront for Anderson in a heartbeat. He's younger, better, and has more upside. He's only got 2 years of team control though, so maybe we can do better.

     

    I wanted Floyd last year while his years of team control was greater than it is now. He is not doing well this year, but did better than Doubront last year.

     

     



    I 'm not saying that Doubront is going to be great or anything like that. Just that you are very down on him. You are always looking to trade him off. The grass is not always greener. I would stick with him a little longer before giving up on him. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    The following players will be eligible for the 2013 Rule 5 Draft if they are not added to the 40-man roster by November 20, 2013:

    Mario Alcantara, Michael Almanzar, Chris Balcom-Miller, Carson Blair, Xander Bogaerts, Bryce Brentz, Chris Carpenter, Garin Cecchini, Keith Couch, William Cuevas, Keury De La Cruz, Luis Diaz, Leonel Escobar, Jose Garcia, Derrik Gibson, Dreily Guerrero, Jeremy Hazelbaker, Jayson Hernandez, Chris Hernandez, Peter Hissey, Brandon Jacobs, Jeremy Kehrt, Aaron Kurcz, Juan Carlos Linares, Mario Martinez, Heiker Meneses, Boss Moanaroa, Nefi Ogando, Gerardo Olivares, Yunior Ortega, Oscar Perez, Rafael Perez, Mathew Price, Anthony Ranaudo, David Renfroe, Pete Ruiz, Felix Sanchez, Brandon Snyder, Alfredo Soto, Kyle Stroup, Francisco Taveras, Raynel Velette, Jose Vinicio, Kolbrin Vitek, Shannon Wilkerson, Brandon Workman, Madison Younginer

     

    The following players will be eligible for the 2014 Rule 5 Draft if they are not added to the 40-man roster by November 20, 2014:

    Anthony Amaya, Jonathan Aro, Matt Barnes, David Chester, Jose Colorado, Sean Coyle, Jacob Dahlstrand, Jason Garcia, Matt Gedman, Sergio Gomez, Williams Jerez, Elis Jimenez, Bryan Johns, Matty Johnson, Zach Kapstein, Braden Kapteyn, Ben Klafczynski, Cody Koback, Jesus Loya, Chris Martin, Mike McCarthy, Frank Montas, Nick Natoli, Matty Ott, Miguel Pena, Kendrick Perkins, Carlos Pinales, Noe Ramirez, Henry Ramos, Tim Roberson, Robby Scott, Travis Shaw, David Sopilka, Blake Swihart, Drew Turocy

    Sox4ever

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    I'd still trade Doubront for Anderson in a heartbeat. He's younger, better, and has more upside. He's only got 2 years of team control though, so maybe we can do better.

     

     

    I wanted Floyd last year while his years of team control was greater than it is now. He is not doing well this year, but did better than Doubront last year.

     

     

     



    I 'm not saying that Doubront is going to be great or anything like that. Just that you are very down on him. You are always looking to trade him off. The grass is not always greener. I would stick with him a little longer before giving up on him. 

    But, have you seen who I want to trade him for? They may not have preformed well after my suggestion, but all have been highly regardfed pitchers. That shows I think Doubront has a lot of value.

    Yes, I am "very down" on a young pitcher who doesn't seem to care about coming to camp in shape or not 2 out of 3 years.

    Couple that with his high BB rate, and yes, I want to trade him while his value is high. You think his longterm team control is only a value to us? Other GMs would love to have Doubront on their roster.  We aren't the only guys who see his value. Add a few prospects, and they may part with a better pitcher for various reasons, such as dumping salary and/or looking 2-3 years down the line and not 1-3 years (see Gallardo).

    It's not about liking or not liking a player. Next to boom, I have defended Ellsbury more than any poster on this site over the year. Check out the thousand plus post Salty thread, and see if you think I'm "down on him". It's about trading an asset before his value turns to zero, getting something valuable in return, and improving this club by upgrading the weakest links.

    Sox4ever

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to georom4's comment:

    You dont create a team for depth...this is not hockey where you need three lines so that they can play equal amounts...this is baseball where most of the subs are scrubs who cant pitch more than an inning at a time or journeyman subs who add a little versatility to late inning situations in terms of speed, defense, or batting matchups. The one position where you need a quality backup is catcher - and we have that. 

    You play your best players....and that is simply Iggy at ss for his awesome range, arm, glove, and Will Mid for his power. If Drew wants to be a sub for ten million, thats OK with me. I think he would be a fine backup. But there is abso no reason given hs career averages, and current average/glove why you would delay starting Iggy for this guy. He is signed for a year. Who expected this team to be in first? NO ONE. Not one person on this forum predicted this. So play to stay in first. Trying to juggle playing time to satisfy a veteran signed to just one year is foolish. If Drew plays better and heats up, then by all means keep him playing. But that hot person is Iggy and he should be starting. I'm not sure I even understand this concept of demoting Will. These are the same people who said Drew shouldnt have lost his starting role because of injury are now saying Will has to "prove" himself in AAA after being on the dl

    Dumb.

    As always - 100% correct!



    The difference is that Will was slumping badly for quite a while before he got hurt.  His numbers are awful.  If he had been hitting before he got hurt there'd be no issue here, the job would be his.

     

     
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