Depth

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    If you always play for the here and now, you may never win again.

    ---------------------------------------------

    -Maybe not. Maybe you win in the here and now.   We finally won in 2004 with mostly veteran players. Not with a group of kids.   Nothing wrong with planning for the future, but you do have to try and win every time you have a decent shot at it.

    You'd have probably been against rocking the boat in 2004 as well, when we traded Nomar for a real SS.

    My idea of trading Ellsbury and Drew is not just about the future. Although you obviously disagree, I think it makes us better now as well.

    The Iggy for Drew is a plus. The drop off from Ellsbury to JBJ or from this:

    LF: Carp/Gomes

    CF: Victorino/JBJ

    RF: Nava (Victorino)

    ...might even out the gain with Iggy.

    The plus comes with the guys we get in return that should outweigh the bench loss, especially if they are flipped and/or packaged with aonther player to upgrade a weak spot on out 25 man roster.

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    Whos that desperate team? And what kind of pitcher or RH'd bat do you think we will get for 2 2 month rentals that will cost 10M for both of them?

    Teams don't get desperate until a key injury of by the deadline. By the deadline, Drew and Ellsbury will only be owed about $3.5M each. We can pay part or all of that, if it is an issue.

    I don't see us trading those two for a pitcher that can help this year. No contender will trade a pitcher unless it is a prospect. A third team would have to get involved to get us a useful piece for 2013. Perhaps a salary dump type player, or a good pitcher with another player who is a salary dump attached to the deal (like Beckett with Lowell).

     

     

    Also, our production will drop way off with Ells gone.

     

    I can't see a huge drop way off from .270/.735 (Ellsbury's current BA/OPS), but I will say that if JBJ takes over, he is possibly not going to be real close to .735 for the rest of the season, however, Victorino could play CF, Nava RF, and Carp/Gomes LF.

     

    Hes on fire now and it would be foolish, IMO, to get rid of him. Drew wouldnt be a "bench player". Over the next 4-6 weeks Farrell gives them all playing time. Middy could be that RH'd bat we need if he can start hitting on a regular basis. Come mid July we see where we are at. No moves to sell should be made until then, if at all.

    I agree, and I would not bet on even one of the guys I have mentioned being traded. I think Ben likes them all, and thinks they give is the best chance at winning.

     

    Im not against making moves if they make sense. I dont see getting rid of Ellsbury or salty making any sense at all. Drew? maybe, but would have to net us someone that could help out right away and then we hope to God Iggy or Middy dont have any issues the rest of the year. I dont want to have to rely on Holt or Ciriaco.

    I don't see Drew winning or lsoing us a ring, so I'm fine with trading him away for a useful future piece. However, that might not be a realistic trade possibility, so if not, then he stays, of course.

    Sox4ever

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to Jamesy2775's comment:

    Did I tell youse guys that FOX sucked tonight.



    Was tonight any more suckee than any other night?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    If you always play for the here and now, you may never win again.

    ---------------------------------------------

    -Maybe not. Maybe you win in the here and now.   We finally won in 2004 with mostly veteran players. Not with a group of kids.   Nothing wrong with planning for the future, but you do have to try and win every time you have a decent shot at it.

    You'd have probably been against rocking the boat in 2004 as well, when we traded Nomar for a real SS.

    My idea of trading Ellsbury and Drew is not just about the future. Although you obviously disagree, I think it makes us better now as well.

    The Iggy for Drew is a plus. The drop off from Ellsbury to JBJ or from this:

    LF: Carp/Gomes

    CF: Victorino/JBJ

    RF: Nava (Victorino)

    ...might even out the gain with Iggy.

    The plus comes with the guys we get in return that should outweigh the bench loss, especially if they are flipped and/or packaged with aonther player to upgrade a weak spot on out 25 man roster.

     

     

    Sox4ever



    For the record , I was in favor of trading Nomar because the situation had become untenable.  I notice that you, as is your habit , take a cheap shot by using the words " real SS".  Cabrera helped us win it all in 2004, but no one who knows anything about baseball would otherwise mention him in the same breath as Nomar. With Iglesias, you stay with your initial opinion that he is all glove , no stick , despite the growing evidence to the contrary. This kid has fast hands and lightning quick reflexes. He has a much improved approach at the plate. As long as he continues to stay focused, there is no reason why he cannot be a good hitter. This kid is good. It is not a mirage. But trading Drew at this point makes no sense. He is still a useful player , and you would not get anything worthwhile in return. As for Bradley, I think his future is bright. But he is batting .150 .  You do not trade your starting center fielder to make room for him until he shows something. You are making more of his defense than is apparent to me. He has to hit to earn the job. The bottom line is ; we are in first place. There is no need to tinker and make trades. We have a good team and a few good young prospects. The guys we get in return in a trade are not likely to make us better. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: Depth

    I'm not big on the idea of trading Ellsbury. I keep reading he likes it in Boston. He has already shown he can produce well in Boston.

    His lack of power, age, and history of injuries are working against him. 

    Unless another team offers crazy money I think the Sox should resign him. 

    This mainly comes down to the idea the Sox should not let go of people who have shown they can play in Boston. It still haunts me the Red Sox let Cabrera go. 

    There are guys who can not play in Boston (Crawford, Rentería). 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Depth

    Joe Buck is one of the most respected announcers in the business. McCarver is getting older and makes mistakes , while still getting in some good points. To kill them is biased and disingenuous. Do you really prefer to hear Orsillo and Remy giggle their way through a game. Honestly , the lack of objectivity here is appalling. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Do you really prefer to hear Orsillo and Remy giggle their way through a game. Honestly , the lack of objectivity here is appalling.

    I often find them annoying, so I usually watch the games with the sound muted. I found that the subbing Dennis Eckersley to be a welcome change of pace.

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    For the record , I was in favor of trading Nomar because the situation had become untenable.  

    I thought I was the only Sox fan that loved the trade at the time, but I stand corrected.

    I notice that you, as is your habit , take a cheap shot by using the words " real SS".  Cabrera helped us win it all in 2004, but no one who knows anything about baseball would otherwise mention him in the same breath as Nomar.

    It was pretty clear I was talking about fielding. Nomar was one of the most over-rated fielders at SS in my memory. His twisting jumping twirling throws from the hole were mostly needless, but made good highlights.

    With Iglesias, you stay with your initial opinion that he is all glove , no stick , despite the growing evidence to the contrary.

    No, that is softy's line-not mine. 

    My position has always been that Iggy's fielding is so superior that his hitting almost doesn't matter in the comparison to Drew or Aviles (last year). I often stated the minimum he'd have to do on offense to make him a plus over Aviles or Drew, but I have never once posted what I expected him to do in the majors.  I do not think he is a great hitter, but I think he can become a very good one. Perhaps he is on his way to becomming that as we speak.

    This kid has fast hands and lightning quick reflexes. He has a much improved approach at the plate. As long as he continues to stay focused, there is no reason why he cannot be a good hitter. This kid is good. It is not a mirage.

    Yes, I agree. He has the tools to be a good hitter, but 79 PAs proves nothing. Pitchers will adjust and so must Iggy. I have never said he can not become a good hitter.

    But trading Drew at this point makes no sense. He is still a useful player , and you would not get anything worthwhile in return.

    As I have said, I would not trade him for nothing, I'd want something significant in return (even if it takes paying part of his contract) so how is this idea much different from your position? If we don't get anything valuable, I am not for trading him. (I hope he is Ok with being a UIF'er, because I think Iggy is here to stay... as a starter, and if Middy regains his form, Drew is the odd man out.)

     

    As for Bradley, I think his future is bright. But he is batting .150 .  

    Stop with the darn tiny sample size current stat judgements. It's crazy.

    You do not trade your starting center fielder to make room for him until he shows something. You are making more of his defense than is apparent to me. He has to hit to earn the job. The bottom line is ; we are in first place. There is no need to tinker and make trades. We have a good team and a few good young prospects. The guys we get in return in a trade are not likely to make us better. 

    It's not a straight Ells to JBJ move, there is also this possibility:

    LF: Carp/Gomes (Nava)

    CF: Victorino/JBJ

    RF: Nava (Vict)

    Gomes is heating up vs LHPs and has been trenedous vs lefties for about 5 years. Carp is killing righties. Nava is Navalicious! 

    Again, I do not give Ellsbury away, but I look at the dealine and see 2 months of Ellsbury's value as perhaps being less than an offer a desperate GM makes us. If they offer more value, I'd pounce. It's not an absurd position to trade for more value.

    No better value offered? No trade and we keep Drew and Ells.

    Sox4ever

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    Joe Buck is one of the most respected announcers in the business. McCarver is getting older and makes mistakes , while still getting in some good points. To kill them is biased and disingenuous. Do you really prefer to hear Orsillo and Remy giggle their way through a game. Honestly , the lack of objectivity here is appalling. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    Eck should get Remy's job.

     

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