Depth

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In the last 95 years , we have two championships. Any time you have a chance for another , you go for it.  If we stay on top , you do not trade an Ellsbury for a prospect. Don't worry too much about the Rule 5 draft. You can only lose a maximum of two players. Anyone selected has to stay on the 25 man roster all year. It is a gamble to draft these guys. Last year Hazelbaker , a pretty decent prospect , was not protected and not drafted. Protect your top players and prospects , and don't worry about the rest. It looks like we have a team that has a real shot. We have good depth to protect against injuries , and an excellent crop on the farm . Things are looking pretty bright. Don't over think things. Put your best nine on the field and go for it. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    If you always play for the here and now, you may never win again.

    It seems like that was the team philosophy until henry bought the team. We traded away our future for the here and now, and never won in "the now", and never had much youth infusion to help us improve.

    I can certainly see how our fast start to this season has raised hopes of a ring, but I do not think Ben will trade any blue chip prospects for a rental. He probably will not make a trade I am suggesting either (to improve our future), so we will have a chance to win this year.

    Ben deserves a longer look than some clowns here are willing to give him. The team is doing well. We are more balanced home and away and top to bottom. We still need Lackey or Dempster to be solid to the end to have a real chance, but it's not impossible.

    I think last night's game could be a big boost to the team morale and confidence.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Depth

    Games like last night show us why the depth we have right now is so important.

    A few good drafts, ridding ourselves of the bad contracts of CC and Gonzo, holding on to and adding prospects, and signing short term players is going to prove to be a a recipe for longterm success. I really like how Ben has handled things since taking over and the direction he has pointed this team in. Hes setting the Sox up for the "Here and Now" as well as the Future. Its a tough balancing act, but he seems to have a solid grasp of things.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

    These team doesn't cut it as more than a bubble playoff early exit team on two fronts:

    Impotent slugging v LP

    weak past 2 starting pitchers

     

    Those two areas need to change, and Ellsbury has his low numbers moving up at a good time to deal him to an NL contender. S. Drew should also be traded to a team with a middle infield injury.

    With Iglesias making it clear that S. Drew needs to go, Ciriaco needs to be moved through waivers and parked in AAA and Holt needs to be called up when S. Drew goes.

    If the Red Sox GM thinks this early start means status quo is going to get it done, he is mistaken!



    Last year you loved Ciriaco.

    I do agree that at least one of the two big weaknesses needs to be fixed for us to become a major ring contender.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    These team doesn't cut it as more than a bubble playoff early exit team on two fronts:

    Impotent slugging v LP

    weak past 2 starting pitchers

     

    Those two areas need to change, and Ellsbury has his low numbers moving up at a good time to deal him to an NL contender. S. Drew should also be traded to a team with a middle infield injury.

    With Iglesias making it clear that S. Drew needs to go, Ciriaco needs to be moved through waivers and parked in AAA and Holt needs to be called up when S. Drew goes.

    If the Red Sox GM thinks this early start means status quo is going to get it done, he is mistaken!

     



    Last year you loved Ciriaco.

     

    I do agree that at least one of the two big weaknesses needs to be fixed for us to become a major ring contender.

     



    moon,

     

    Last season Ciriaco was clearly a better hitter than Iggy so it was a no brainer to play him.  This season Iggy is finally maturing, I heard Pede played a huge part in of mentoring him.  Iggy has finally matured enough where Ciriaco is expendable when Middy returns.  As far as Drew, you obviously dont like him much for a lot of the same reasons I didn't like Salty the past couple of years.  They couldn't hit that well and played only average defense.

    Despite my past feelings I still give Salty a lot of credit so far this season as I do Drew for playing his best defense in years.  The difference Salty and Iggy are making to our lineup this season wins games.  Hoping a personal favorite plays even if they hurt the team doesn't.  Like I said at the start of the season, this team won't win until our overall team OBP's level out to decent standard across the board like in 04 and 07.  Its happening now and I hope it continues. 

    One final note:

    Most thought Middy was the next great player after a solid rookie season but obviously you never know where a player might be from year to year.  He may return "on fire" which would be great for everyone but his frequent injuries concern me just as much as his hitting.  The good thing is, If Middy, Iggy and Salty do struggle we now have pretty good youngsters breathing down their backs who want the same opportunity so our depth "as southpaw stated" looks pretty good.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    Games like last night show us why the depth we have right now is so important.

    A few good drafts, ridding ourselves of the bad contracts of CC and Gonzo, holding on to and adding prospects, and signing short term players is going to prove to be a a recipe for longterm success. I really like how Ben has handled things since taking over and the direction he has pointed this team in. Hes setting the Sox up for the "Here and Now" as well as the Future. Its a tough balancing act, but he seems to have a solid grasp of things.



    Nice thread, Southpaw.  Depth is critical over the course of 162 games and the Sox clearly realize this.  A lot can, and likely will change between now and the deadline, so it's too early to tell what the Sox will do, but if they are still in the hunt (obviously very likely), they will be buyers, not sellers.  I don't see them emptying the farm for a position player upgrade, but I'm sure they'll look at the pitching staff to see if they can improve upon what they have.  A lot of GMs like to make a move just to let the players know they are trying to win, even if it's a small one.  They could also continue to get boosts from the farm, as I'm sure they would love to have De La Rosa coming out of the bullpen throwing high 90s during the stretch.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Games like last night show us why the depth we have right now is so important.

    A few good drafts, ridding ourselves of the bad contracts of CC and Gonzo, holding on to and adding prospects, and signing short term players is going to prove to be a a recipe for longterm success. I really like how Ben has handled things since taking over and the direction he has pointed this team in. Hes setting the Sox up for the "Here and Now" as well as the Future. Its a tough balancing act, but he seems to have a solid grasp of things.

     



    Nice thread, Southpaw.  Depth is critical over the course of 162 games and the Sox clearly realize this.  A lot can, and likely will change between now and the deadline, so it's too early to tell what the Sox will do, but if they are still in the hunt (obviously very likely), they will be buyers, not sellers.  I don't see them emptying the farm for a position player upgrade, but I'm sure they'll look at the pitching staff to see if they can improve upon what they have.  A lot of GMs like to make a move just to let the players know they are trying to win, even if it's a small one.  They could also continue to get boosts from the farm, as I'm sure they would love to have De La Rosa coming out of the bullpen throwing high 90s during the stretch.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks Jasko. I thought it was better than another "Grade Bens moves" thread. Each move he made had a good reason behind it. so far its worked very well. To judge each move individually is ok I guess, but an overall judgement seems more appropriate. To me anyway. The more I looked at it the more clear it was. We didnt have this kind of depth the last couple years. Now we do.

    As far as what moves will be made? Who knows. A lot can happen in 6 weeks. I agree with you though. The Sox should be buyers, not sellers.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Games like last night show us why the depth we have right now is so important.

    A few good drafts, ridding ourselves of the bad contracts of CC and Gonzo, holding on to and adding prospects, and signing short term players is going to prove to be a a recipe for longterm success. I really like how Ben has handled things since taking over and the direction he has pointed this team in. Hes setting the Sox up for the "Here and Now" as well as the Future. Its a tough balancing act, but he seems to have a solid grasp of things.

     

     



    Nice thread, Southpaw.  Depth is critical over the course of 162 games and the Sox clearly realize this.  A lot can, and likely will change between now and the deadline, so it's too early to tell what the Sox will do, but if they are still in the hunt (obviously very likely), they will be buyers, not sellers.  I don't see them emptying the farm for a position player upgrade, but I'm sure they'll look at the pitching staff to see if they can improve upon what they have.  A lot of GMs like to make a move just to let the players know they are trying to win, even if it's a small one.  They could also continue to get boosts from the farm, as I'm sure they would love to have De La Rosa coming out of the bullpen throwing high 90s during the stretch.  

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks Jasko. I thought it was better than another "Grade Bens moves" thread. Each move he made had a good reason behind it. so far its worked very well. To judge each move individually is ok I guess, but an overall judgement seems more appropriate. To me anyway. The more I looked at it the more clear it was. We didnt have this kind of depth the last couple years. Now we do.

     

    As far as what moves will be made? Who knows. A lot can happen in 6 weeks. I agree with you though. The Sox should be buyers, not sellers.

    [/QUOTE]

    It should be pretty interesting during the days leading up to the deadline.  You are right about Ben.  A lot of people rely on "stats" only to judge a player, but as Ben mentioned the day he took the job, the biggest difference between him and Theo is that he puts a lot more emphasis on a player's make-up, which is critical in a city like Boston.  Ben has a tremendous staff of knowledgeable people as well.

    People didn't like the Dempster signing due to his "stats," but the Sox felt they needed a guy who could give them a lot of innings out of the 3/4 spot, he is a highly respected veteran who obviously can handle this city and he's a guy the other starters can look up to and learn from.  He's kept them in most games so far and the short term deal was obviously a huge part of it as well.

     Another signing that gets panned is Victorino, but at the time, they were trying to move Ellsbury, and Vic could play center and he obviously has the arm to play right.  They were "covered" if an Ellsbury trade developed and if not, they could both play.  Victorino is another very respected player around the league who keeps himself in great shape, so 3 years wasn't a huge risk to them. I was in Philly last week and couldn't believe how many people were saying that the Phillies lost the heart and soul of the team when they lost Victorino.  They love the guy there!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Games like last night show us why the depth we have right now is so important.

    A few good drafts, ridding ourselves of the bad contracts of CC and Gonzo, holding on to and adding prospects, and signing short term players is going to prove to be a a recipe for longterm success. I really like how Ben has handled things since taking over and the direction he has pointed this team in. Hes setting the Sox up for the "Here and Now" as well as the Future. Its a tough balancing act, but he seems to have a solid grasp of things.

     

     

     

     



    Nice thread, Southpaw.  Depth is critical over the course of 162 games and the Sox clearly realize this.  A lot can, and likely will change between now and the deadline, so it's too early to tell what the Sox will do, but if they are still in the hunt (obviously very likely), they will be buyers, not sellers.  I don't see them emptying the farm for a position player upgrade, but I'm sure they'll look at the pitching staff to see if they can improve upon what they have.  A lot of GMs like to make a move just to let the players know they are trying to win, even if it's a small one.  They could also continue to get boosts from the farm, as I'm sure they would love to have De La Rosa coming out of the bullpen throwing high 90s during the stretch.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    Thanks Jasko. I thought it was better than another "Grade Bens moves" thread. Each move he made had a good reason behind it. so far its worked very well. To judge each move individually is ok I guess, but an overall judgement seems more appropriate. To me anyway. The more I looked at it the more clear it was. We didnt have this kind of depth the last couple years. Now we do.

     

     

     

    As far as what moves will be made? Who knows. A lot can happen in 6 weeks. I agree with you though. The Sox should be buyers, not sellers.

     

     



    It should be pretty interesting during the days leading up to the deadline.  You are right about Ben.  A lot of people rely on "stats" only to judge a player, but as Ben mentioned the day he took the job, the biggest difference between him and Theo is that he puts a lot more emphasis on a player's make-up, which is critical in a city like Boston.  Ben has a tremendous staff of knowledgeable people as well.

     

    We've seen over the years how playing in Boston can affect certain player in a negative way. Boston might pass up on a player that some fans are screaming for. Make-up might have something to do with it amongst other things. They know these players, some on a more personal level. they have info that we do not.

    People didn't like the Dempster signing due to his "stats," but the Sox felt they needed a guy who could give them a lot of innings out of the 3/4 spot, he is a highly respected veteran who obviously can handle this city and he's a guy the other starters can look up to and learn from.  He's kept them in most games so far and the short term deal was obviously a huge part of it as well.

    Hes been pitching good for a 3-4 compared to other 3-4 slotted pitchers. People sometimes pay too much attention to the money. Although it does matter, you have to put in it the correct context. Dempster took 2 yrs., which seems to be the way the Sox did things this year. Pay more for less years. He will give you 30 starts and about 200IP. Most of the time he will keep you in the game and give you a chance to win. He has been the recipient of little run support (besides his last start) this year and could easily have 6+ wins. 12 wins with an ERA at 4.5 or lower and Im cool with that.

     Another signing that gets panned is Victorino, but at the time, they were trying to move Ellsbury, and Vic could play center and he obviously has the arm to play right.  They were "covered" if an Ellsbury trade developed and if not, they could both play.  Victorino is another very respected player around the league who keeps himself in great shape, so 3 years wasn't a huge risk to them. I was in Philly last week and couldn't believe how many people were saying that the Phillies lost the heart and soul of the team when they lost Victorino.  They love the guy there!

    I can see why Philly fans loved this guy.He plays the game the right way. Hes vey likable and is an all around solid player in every aspect of the game.

    Another signing was Drew, who seems to get the most heat here. Drew was offered 2yrs, but took the 1yr make good deal for a bit more cash. Its funny, the ones that didnt like the signing will skew stats and cherry pick things to make their case against him. Like using his injury years. I expected it from softy, but not from Moon. Then again....Anyway, Iggy proved nothing last year and shouldnt have been handed a job he didnt earn. He worked his azz off, put on a few LBS of muscle and improved his approach at the plate. He looks better this year, but you shouldnt sell off your depth because hes had 62AB's. Especially sell of a guy with a 750-800OPS with solid defense. Thats foolish. WMB still has to come back and be successful against MLB pitching. Hes hitting AAA pitching, but hes already been there and done that. If he comes back and still struggles, I let Iggy play 3b.

    Things could definitely change by the deadline, but like Ive said over and over, your not going to want some guy from the waiver wire or some ciriaco/Holt type player playing a lot of innings if someone gets hurt or has a pronged slump. The teams with the most and best depth are usually the ones there in the end. 

     




     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    moon,

     

    Last season Ciriaco was clearly a better hitter than Iggy so it was a no brainer to play him.  This season Iggy is finally maturing, I heard Pede played a huge part in of mentoring him.  Iggy has finally matured enough where Ciriaco is expendable when Middy returns.  As far as Drew, you obviously dont like him much for a lot of the same reasons I didn't like Salty the past couple of years. They couldn't hit that well and played only average defense.

    Actually, I wouldn't say Ciriaco was really a "better hitter" last season. The sample sizes were too small to determine much of anything. I said last year that Ciriaco had a .299 OBP in over 3500 minor league PAs, and that was where he'd likely end up once the sample size got big enough to count. People get too worked up over short sample size hot streaks or cold streaks.

    Ciriaco was not as good as people thought he was last year, and Iggy was not as bad.

    I'm not saying Iggy hasn't improved. He clearly has, but his numbers this year are also a small sample size that has been highly effected by many infield hits and bloopers falling in. (I think maybe half his hits are not solid hits and he has a .510 BAbip)

    Yes, Ciriaco is expendable after Middy comes back, but not if we plan on trading Drew (not likely).

     

    Despite my past feelings I still give Salty a lot of credit so far this season as I do Drew for playing his best defense in years.  The difference Salty and Iggy are making to our lineup this season wins games.  Hoping a personal favorite plays even if they hurt the team doesn't.  Like I said at the start of the season, this team won't win until our overall team OBP's level out to decent standard across the board like in 04 and 07.  Its happening now and I hope it continues. 

    I am not calling for Iggy to play because he is "my favorite". I think he gives us a better chance at winning. That's the only reason. I have painstakenly laid out my argument, supported it with evidence and data, but have also stated that Drew has show to be a better fielder than I imagined he was. I made adjustments to my defensive differential formula, and have not jumped on the Iggy is a great offensive player bandwagon like some have here. I still consider Drew a better offensive player than Iggy, and this seasons small sample sizes has not changed that opinion. However, as I have adjusted the defensive differential a bit in Drew's favor, I am also not projecting a .250-.275 OBP for Iggy as I thought this past winter he'd have. I like defensive SSs and think a great ranged SS saves more runs than most people imagine. I played next to a great defensive SS for several years as a second baseman. Iv'e seen many average and poor defensive SSs in my day as well.

    I don't root for Iggy any more than Drew.

     

    One final note:

    Most thought Middy was the next great player after a solid rookie season but obviously you never know where a player might be from year to year.  He may return "on fire" which would be great for everyone but his frequent injuries concern me just as much as his hitting.  The good thing is, If Middy, Iggy and Salty do struggle we now have pretty good youngsters breathing down their backs who want the same opportunity so our depth "as southpaw stated" looks pretty good.

    I was never that high on Middy and even suggested trading him in several scenarios before last season began. He looked very good last year, but again, it was a small sample size that many posters, including softy, went gah gah over. softy even claimed Middy was the key to our success this year (keeping his winless streak alive I might add). I do see softy's point about needing abig power RH'd bat, so in that sense, I can see Middy as our in house hope, but I have said all along, if we need to rely on a second year player who only played a half a season his rookie year, and who has had a history of high K rates and "holes in his swing", we are in big trouble.

    We still have 2 major flaws on this team, and I am pretty certain one or both will come back to haunt us this year:

    1) We need another solid, reliable SP.

    2) We need a RH'd hitter that can bat 3rd or 4th. Naps is a great #5 hitter and has hip issues. Papi is a great 3 or 4 hitter, but he can only fill one of those slots. I like Pedey up 3rd, but picking up a solid righty bat and solid SP would lengthen our line-up and make us a top 3 or 4 contender (as long as the injury bug stays away).

     

    Sox4ever

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    People didn't like the Dempster signing due to his "stats," but the Sox felt they needed a guy who could give them a lot of innings out of the 3/4 spot, he is a highly respected veteran who obviously can handle this city and he's a guy the other starters can look up to and learn from.  He's kept them in most games so far and the short term deal was obviously a huge part of it as well.

    His stats have been pretty good over recent years, so I'm not sure who (besides softy) was using his numbers to be down on the signing.

    Sox4ever

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    Another signing was Drew, who seems to get the most heat here. Drew was offered 2yrs, but took the 1yr make good deal for a bit more cash. Its funny, the ones that didnt like the signing will skew stats and cherry pick things to make their case against him. Like using his injury years. I expected it from softy, but not from Moon. Then again....Anyway, Iggy proved nothing last year and shouldnt have been handed a job he didnt earn. He worked his azz off, put on a few LBS of muscle and improved his approach at the plate. He looks better this year, but you shouldnt sell off your depth because hes had 62AB's. Especially sell of a guy with a 750-800OPS with solid defense. Thats foolish.

    Please. I have not used Drew's injury years as a significant part of any argument against Drew. My argument has been  about pro-Iggy than anti-Drew. I have continually said Drew is a better offensive player than Iggy, even with Iggy's ungodly numbers so far. I am not a small sample size person.

    The only thing I have stuck to more than maybe I should have is the fact that the half season before Drew got hurt was not good, and he was healthy then. You and others want to discount those PAs or downplay them, but to me they represented part of who a healthy Drew is or could be. I figured he was probabaly somewhere inbetween that Drew and the Drew of 2010. I feel singling out a players best season, especially since it is a bit of an outlier season, and assuming that is the "real player" is just as reckless as softy calling Drew a weak hitter even by SS standards.

    I think I projected something like .280/.320 for Drew this year if he played FT and stayed healthy.  That's way better than his "injured years" numbers, so I'd appreciate you not misrepresenting my position on Drew's offense. I have admitted I was off a bit on his defense, but as of right now, my offensive projection seems more realistic than those saying Drew would end up with a .350 OBP.

    Sox4ever

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Another signing was Drew, who seems to get the most heat here. Drew was offered 2yrs, but took the 1yr make good deal for a bit more cash. Its funny, the ones that didnt like the signing will skew stats and cherry pick things to make their case against him. Like using his injury years. I expected it from softy, but not from Moon. Then again....Anyway, Iggy proved nothing last year and shouldnt have been handed a job he didnt earn. He worked his azz off, put on a few LBS of muscle and improved his approach at the plate. He looks better this year, but you shouldnt sell off your depth because hes had 62AB's. Especially sell of a guy with a 750-800OPS with solid defense. Thats foolish.

    Please. I have not used Drew's injury years as a significant part of any argument against Drew. My argument has been  about pro-Iggy than anti-Drew. I have continually said Drew is a better offensive player than Iggy, even with Iggy's ungodly numbers so far. I am not a small sample size person.

    The only thing I have stuck to more than maybe I should have is the fact that the half season before Drew got hurt was not good, and he was healthy then. You and others want to discount those PAs or downplay them, but to me they represented part of who a healthy Drew is or could be. I figured he was probabaly somewhere inbetween that Drew and the Drew of 2010. I feel singling out a players best season, especially since it is a bit of an outlier season, and assuming that is the "real player" is just as reckless as softy calling Drew a weak hitter even by SS standards.

    I think I projected something like .280/.320 for Drew this year if he played FT and stayed healthy.  That's way better than his "injured years" numbers, so I'd appreciate you not misrepresenting my position on Drew's offense. I have admitted I was off a bit on his defense, but as of right now, my offensive projection seems more realistic than those saying Drew would end up with a .350 OBP.

    Sox4ever



    I never said you using Drews injury years was a signifigant part of your arguement, just the fact that you have done it. I certainly wasnt trying to misrepresent you.

    I take his production from 2008-2010. those 3 years and the first couple months of 2011. Actually were both very close to what we think Drews offense is. I just have him at a slightly better OBP. Other than that, were on the same page. Defensively, Nobody has ever said his is better than Iggys, just that its much better than what most here thought.

    Bottom line is Drew is here for 1 year and theres no reason to trade away all this depth we have because Iggy has had a decent 62 AB's. Its a long season and injuries will occur and prolonged slumps will as well. Im sure farrell will find time for everyone. If Iggy has to sit a couple games, then so be it. If Drew sits a game or too, fine. Same with Middy. Bottom line is, all 3 of them give us the best chance to win. same with CF and catcher. JBJ is good depth to have just in case and Lavarnway is as well. Realistically, your not going to get as much back for those 3 than what they are worth to this team this year.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Depth

    http://www.csnne.com/blog/red-sox-talk/kalish-progressing-rehab

    File this under next year's depth.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    Bottom line is Drew is here for 1 year and theres no reason to trade away all this depth we have because Iggy has had a decent 62 AB's.

    To me, it's not about his 70 PAs this year. I was for Iggy before the season even began. His hitting has not changed my opinion at all, because I do not believe his numbers really reflect what kind of hitter he is and will be.

    Its a long season and injuries will occur and prolonged slumps will as well. Im sure farrell will find time for everyone. If Iggy has to sit a couple games, then so be it. If Drew sits a game or too, fine. Same with Middy. Bottom line is, all 3 of them give us the best chance to win.

    It is nice to have a good bench, but to me having another sound starting pitcher or solid mid order RH'd bat is worth more than having a $9.5M guy on the bench.

     

    same with CF and catcher. JBJ is good depth to have just in case and Lavarnway is as well. Realistically, your not going to get as much back for those 3 than what they are worth to this team this year.

    I think Ellsbury and Drew could net a good return from a desperate team.

    Sox4ever

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Bottom line is Drew is here for 1 year and theres no reason to trade away all this depth we have because Iggy has had a decent 62 AB's.

    To me, it's not about his 70 PAs this year. I was for Iggy before the season even began. His hitting has not changed my opinion at all, because I do not believe his numbers really reflect what kind of hitter he is and will be.

    Its a long season and injuries will occur and prolonged slumps will as well. Im sure farrell will find time for everyone. If Iggy has to sit a couple games, then so be it. If Drew sits a game or too, fine. Same with Middy. Bottom line is, all 3 of them give us the best chance to win.

    It is nice to have a good bench, but to me having another sound starting pitcher or solid mid order RH'd bat is worth more than having a $9.5M guy on the bench.

     

    same with CF and catcher. JBJ is good depth to have just in case and Lavarnway is as well. Realistically, your not going to get as much back for those 3 than what they are worth to this team this year.

    I think Ellsbury and Drew could net a good return from a desperate team.

    Sox4ever



    Whos that desperate team? And what kind of pitcher or RH'd bat do you think we will get for 2 2 month rentals that will cost 10M for both of them?

    Also, our production will drop way off with Ells gone. Hes on fire now and it would be foolish, IMO, to get rid of him. Drew wouldnt be a "bench player". Over the next 4-6 weeks Farrell gives them all playing time. Middy could be that RH'd bat we need if he can start hitting on a regular basis. Come mid July we see where we are at. No moves to sell should be made until then, if at all.

    Im not against making moves if they make sense. I dont see getting rid of Ellsbury or salty making any sense at all. Drew? maybe, but would have to net us someone that could help out right away and then we hope to God Iggy or Middy dont have any issues the rest of the year. I dont want to have to rely on Holt or Ciriaco.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    First I want to say that I have said many times that I believe Iggy would hit MLB pitching. So far (SSS) he is. I do expect his numbers to normalize though. Although Middlebrooks hasnt hit much at all this year, even before the injury, he looked good at the plate in AAA last night. A good sign.

    This poses a problem at SS. Some here cant wait to get rid of Drew. Although I think its a possibility, I dont think its very likely right now. Maybe at the deadline if a good offer is made. A solid SS is usually needed by a couple teams. But I still have some concerns doing that.

    Now, I love what I see from Iggy and I can now see him possibly being the starting SS soon, but what happens if Iggy gets hurt? Or Middy gets hurt? Both have had their share of injuries, especially Iggy. What happens if Iggy goes back to being a 200BA 260OBP? Middy goes back into a big slump? You want Ciriaco or Holt holding things down? Thats why Id wait a little bit and see how things play out before I think about making any moves right now. Just something to think about.

    Trade Ells? This one I could see as a slight possibility, but I dont think you get much for him. Especially after his recent DL stint. You would probably have better luck with the comp pick next year. Maybe some GM is willing to give up a decent prospect that we would otherwise get in the comp round. I dont think JBJ is fully ready yet, so Im not sure this one even happens.

    Salty? No way. I dont see this happening at all. His offense is much better this year and although hes just average defensively, he does a great job with our staff. They feel comfortable with him back there. Like the way he calls a game and he knows them enough to help work them through problems when they occur. Theres is much more to catching than just numbers. Im sorry, by you cant give Ross Saltys workload and think you will get the same results, no matter how you want to look at it. Trading salty this year, especially if they are right in the PO run, would be a big bone-headed move. There is even a possibility they resign him and start him until Vasquez is ready.

    Its great to see the kids playing well, without a doubt. I just dont think you hand them the keys right now. Farrell and Ben will possibly have some tough decisions to make soon and I wouldnt want to be in their shoes in that regard. Trades are certainly possible, but you have to consider what got them this far, DEPTH, and if you want to risk losing that depth going into the toughest part of the season. We have a good thing going the way it is, dont try and fix whats not broke. At least not right now. A lot can happen between now and the end of July.



    I don't see Salty being traded before the end of the season but if he tails off again, I don't see it being a disaster if we did with Ross still here.  I also don't think both Ross and Salty will be here all next season despite Ross having another year on his contract.  If Salty agrees to a short term/reasonable deal maybe the two can hang together another year but with less expensive options like Lav/Vasquez & Swihart? 

    Something has to give in the next year or two.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    First I want to say that I have said many times that I believe Iggy would hit MLB pitching. So far (SSS) he is. I do expect his numbers to normalize though. Although Middlebrooks hasnt hit much at all this year, even before the injury, he looked good at the plate in AAA last night. A good sign.

    This poses a problem at SS. Some here cant wait to get rid of Drew. Although I think its a possibility, I dont think its very likely right now. Maybe at the deadline if a good offer is made. A solid SS is usually needed by a couple teams. But I still have some concerns doing that.

    Now, I love what I see from Iggy and I can now see him possibly being the starting SS soon, but what happens if Iggy gets hurt? Or Middy gets hurt? Both have had their share of injuries, especially Iggy. What happens if Iggy goes back to being a 200BA 260OBP? Middy goes back into a big slump? You want Ciriaco or Holt holding things down? Thats why Id wait a little bit and see how things play out before I think about making any moves right now. Just something to think about.

    Trade Ells? This one I could see as a slight possibility, but I dont think you get much for him. Especially after his recent DL stint. You would probably have better luck with the comp pick next year. Maybe some GM is willing to give up a decent prospect that we would otherwise get in the comp round. I dont think JBJ is fully ready yet, so Im not sure this one even happens.

    Salty? No way. I dont see this happening at all. His offense is much better this year and although hes just average defensively, he does a great job with our staff. They feel comfortable with him back there. Like the way he calls a game and he knows them enough to help work them through problems when they occur. Theres is much more to catching than just numbers. Im sorry, by you cant give Ross Saltys workload and think you will get the same results, no matter how you want to look at it. Trading salty this year, especially if they are right in the PO run, would be a big bone-headed move. There is even a possibility they resign him and start him until Vasquez is ready.

    Its great to see the kids playing well, without a doubt. I just dont think you hand them the keys right now. Farrell and Ben will possibly have some tough decisions to make soon and I wouldnt want to be in their shoes in that regard. Trades are certainly possible, but you have to consider what got them this far, DEPTH, and if you want to risk losing that depth going into the toughest part of the season. We have a good thing going the way it is, dont try and fix whats not broke. At least not right now. A lot can happen between now and the end of July.

     



    I don't see Salty being traded before the end of the season but if he tails off again, I don't see it being a disaster if we did with Ross still here.  I also don't think both Ross and Salty will be here all next season despite Ross having another year on his contract.  If Salty agrees to a short term/reasonable deal maybe the two can hang together another year but with less expensive options like Lav/Vasquez & Swihart? 

     

    Something has to give in the next year or two.

    [/QUOTE]


    If they think Vasquez has a legit shot next year or by 2015, which I believe they do, they probably wont resign Salty. If he keeps up this pace he could be offered a QO. No guarentees, but a 28yr old Catcher with power and average and improving defense will get a 4 yr deal IMO. McCann is the only other catcher ahead of him. Im guessing that Lavarnway is trade bait. Just my opinion, because of Vasquez, swihart and this kid Denney they just drafted. Ross will probably remain next year to have that veteran BU, especially if Salty goes and they go with either Lav or Vasquez.

    Dont be surprised if the NYY make a play for Salty this offseason.

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Depth

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In the last 95 years , we have two championships. Any time you have a chance for another , you go for it.  If we stay on top , you do not trade an Ellsbury for a prospect. Don't worry too much about the Rule 5 draft. You can only lose a maximum of two players. Anyone selected has to stay on the 25 man roster all year. It is a gamble to draft these guys. Last year Hazelbaker , a pretty decent prospect , was not protected and not drafted. Protect your top players and prospects , and don't worry about the rest. It looks like we have a team that has a real shot. We have good depth to protect against injuries , and an excellent crop on the farm . Things are looking pretty bright. Don't over think things. Put your best nine on the field and go for it. 

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     



    If you always play for the here and now, you may never win again.

     

    It seems like that was the team philosophy until henry bought the team. We traded away our future for the here and now, and never won in "the now", and never had much youth infusion to help us improve.

    I can certainly see how our fast start to this season has raised hopes of a ring, but I do not think Ben will trade any blue chip prospects for a rental. He probably will not make a trade I am suggesting either (to improve our future), so we will have a chance to win this year.

    Ben deserves a longer look than some clowns here are willing to give him. The team is doing well. We are more balanced home and away and top to bottom. We still need Lackey or Dempster to be solid to the end to have a real chance, but it's not impossible.

    I think last night's game could be a big boost to the team morale and confidence.

    [/QUOTE]

    If you always play for the here and now, you may never win again.----------------------------------------------Maybe not. Maybe you win in the here and now.   We finally won in 2004 with mostly veteran players. Not with a group of kids.   Nothing wrong with planning for the future, but you do have to try and win every time you have a decent shot at it.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Depth

    Gomes is 6 for his last 10. Let's hope this is a sign he is turning it around.

    Sox4ever

     

Share